It's funny how many people want the Rogue to go up a level, yet Rogues are clearly not nearly as strong as Beguilers or Factotums.
I actually like how clear the skillmonkeys are in the placement. Experts are the lowest skillmonkeys... remember, they can UMD just as well as Rogues can, and can use Iajuitsu Focus to get up to 9d6 extra damage, just 1d6 shy of a Rogue. Plus they can use Autohypnosis. However, like Rogues they only really shine if they can make good use of UMD... not always the case in all games (not all games have magic marts). Plus with fewer skill points, they're clearly one step down. And of course other than Iajuitsu Focus they're not exactly spectacular in combat.
Next up is the Rogue. 8+Int skill points, UMD and Diplomacy access, sneak attack. Sneak attack is fun and all, but let's face it, an extra 35 damage at level 20 isn't exactly impressive, and there's an awful lot of foes who are either immune to such damage, hard to sneak attack, or who would simply squish the d6 HD light armour MAD class if the Rogue dared to actually attack. This gets more and more true at higher levels. And yes, you can in theory get items that let you sneak attack certain enemies... maybe. Whether you can use Swift Action spells out of wands as less than a standard action is still debatable (the Rules Compendium may have overridden the DMG rules, or it may have just restated one part and not the other. It's hardly clear). Whether the DM in your game will make such wands available in sufficient quantities is another issue. Whether you get to know your enemies in advance enough to know which wands to get is likewise a question. And whether, after all that, the vampire you just sneak attacked just turns around and squishes you is yet another issue to consider. In the end, Rogues are a nice solid skillmonkey class with some combat potencial, but hardly top material. And this is coming from someone who's first love was Rogues. Heck, in Everquest I played a Rogue. In Oblivion I was a sneaky stealthy archer. In Shadowrun I was a stealthy sniper. But I do know their weaknesses, and they certainly have them. Plus there's the whole "spells trump skills" issue. Nice Open Lock you have... but the door is Arcane Locked. That's okay, the Wizard has Knock.
The scout is somewhere near the Rogue, but I have less experience there, so I'll keep commentary to a minimum on that one.
So then we move up a Tier, to Beguilers and Factotums. Both have spell access... the Beguiler has 9th level spells off a more limited list (but look, Timestop! Mirror Image! Glitterdust!), and the Factotum has the ability to cast Polymorph and Alter Self as spell like abilities. Plus, the Factotum can rock the Iajuitsu Focus and other bizarre skills if he wants. I mean really, Rogues are fun, but they're very clearly not at this level... not by a long shot. Optimize a Beguiler and you get Beguiler 14/Mindbender 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5. Let's see the Rogue build that gets anywhere near this. Optimize a Factotum and you get, well, Factotum 20 with lots of Fonts of Inspiration using FAR too many standard actions per round.
And the top level skill monkeys? Cloistered Cleric and Artificer. Clearly on top.
So, I know a lot of people want Rogues to go up a Tier, but I really don't think it's justified. Do they really think Rogues and Scouts belong with Factotums and Beguilers? Really?
Now, there are other classes I'm thinking of moving. Psionic Warriors to Tier 3 (some very good arguements were made in that direction). Duskblades to Tier 4 (they're on the low edge of 3). Hexblades to Tier 5 (they're on the low edge of Tier 4, but I have a tough time putting a class with Alter Self and Diplomacy in Tier 5). But Rogues? I'm just not seeing it.
JaronK
