Is the role of Stealthy Dude a viable role in a party of non-stealthers?

[Agita]

Like I said, only worth it if you can do both. Which means 2 Bards, or apparently some Bard PRC.

There's also Harmonizing, a +1 weapon enchantment in MIC that can continue a song for the Bard. I think that's the standard for stacking the songs.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Bards can move silently but they can't hide.







Ignore me, I wanted to say something on topic for a change

[Sunic_Flames]

Or something that makes Concentration a Swift action. Since continuing a song is described as Concentrating on it. It's possible, it's just not worthwhile without it, and it doesn't help as much as you think, due to that whole "as soon as the enemy figures it out, they'll all have resist 20 or 30 to it".

Now such characters would still have a very hard time with that Ice Devil. But that's all the more reason why they should stick together, work together, and NOT FUCKING SCOUT. After all, if say... the Bard or Beguiler decides to sneak off and scout ahead, well they'll likely die, and on top of that the party is now missing out on uber songs, or real defenses, or whatever. Obviously, Crusaders and Warblades can't really try. If the scout is a 5th person added to this group of one of those classes, or some other class, they'll likely die, before it becomes necessary to question why the gimp deserves to apply a -20% XP/loot penalty to the rest of the party. If they replace one of these four, then you lose out on something actually helpful and gain nothing a bit sooner.

[JaronK]

Sunic, how many times have you berated people telling them they should be immune to as many attack types as possible?  Isn't immune to mind affecting one of the stock standard immunities people should have?  If so... doesn't that make your Bard completely useless in the very parties you've discussed, since being immune to that means Bard song does nothing?

Plus, if it's a baseline competence issue, we usually don't say "oh, you need a Bard to help you since you can't do it on your own."  What if there's no Bard, a class often called a 5th wheel?  There's still a heck of a lot of folks who use the standard "healer, arcanist, beatstick, skillmonkey" concept, which with a Warblade in a T3 party would be Crusader (or Binder), Beguiler (or Dread Necromancer), Warblade, Factotum (Bards can't detect traps or anything).  I think you just failed at what you claimed was standard.

And stop with the "stick together" thing.  Real scouts don't split the party, no matter how many times you might think otherwise.  Also, running around singing alerts enemies to your presence.  Maybe that's why monsters all know your party's capabilities... they're a freaking marching band.  If your monsters were at all competent, they'd all get reinforcements the moment Sergent Pepper's Lonely Adventurers Club Band showed up in the dungeon and just ambush the (scoutless) party with everything at once.  In my games, the players tend to kill the monsters that might know what they can do, so none of them run off to the girl's room to chat later and spread around what the party can do.  Plus, they kill things fast without giving them time to get help.

JaronK

[JaronK]

Sunic's already stated his party composition... there were no Bards in sight (and from his earlier phrasing, it was clear he didn't mean "with the support of your party you could make it to +30 to hit."  If I say that any decent Commoner build should be able to take out CR+4 encounters with ease, and when you challenge that assertion I come back with "assuming a Wizard cast PAO on him and then he got buffed by a Cleric while a Bard played Rockband for him" I can only imagine your response).  I've used nothing but real gameplay experience, here.  Sunic's making contradictory statements that indicate this is nothing but Theory and Dragons.

But way to contribute something useful to the thread there Beholder.

JaronK

[Soda]

herp derp dizfrabadoooooo

meep meep

whine flail cry accuse missthepoint makeshitup failatlife

We've already figured out you don't actually play the game, just talk about it, so don't make stupid claims like this.

Wow. I've grown to like Sunic as a little pet troll, but this guy is.. yeah...

Don't worry, Jaron. I'm sure most of us know scouts don't split the party at all, require hardly any extra resources at all, and provide a valuable service to the party.

I love how Sunic claimed everyone should have +30 to hit with touch attacks at 10th level, and then used a bard and a loose interpretation of words of creation to add the last +10.  


Also, most importantly, I haven't thanked Endarire for making all these threads. I would have nominated him for poster of the year if I was aware of such a contest.

[BeholderSlayer]

My heart feels all warm and fuzzy, full of happiness and bliss.

[RelentlessImp]

There's honestly nothing worth seeing here anymore, folks. The math's been provided, the sides have had their say, and one of them is actually correct.
Hint: It's not Jaron's side, but he's welcome to think so if he'll just shut up and stop poisoning threads with fail advice.

At this point it's basically going back and forth between "herp derp" and "NO U". Time to end it, I think.

[Sunic_Flames]

Sunic, how many times have you berated people telling them they should be immune to as many attack types as possible?  Isn't immune to mind affecting one of the stock standard immunities people should have?  If so... doesn't that make your Bard completely useless in the very parties you've discussed, since being immune to that means Bard song does nothing?

Plus, if it's a baseline competence issue, we usually don't say "oh, you need a Bard to help you since you can't do it on your own."  What if there's no Bard, a class often called a 5th wheel?  There's still a heck of a lot of folks who use the standard "healer, arcanist, beatstick, skillmonkey" concept, which with a Warblade in a T3 party would be Crusader (or Binder), Beguiler (or Dread Necromancer), Warblade, Factotum (Bards can't detect traps or anything).  I think you just failed at what you claimed was standard.

And stop with the "stick together" thing.  Real scouts don't split the party, no matter how many times you might think otherwise.  Also, running around singing alerts enemies to your presence.  Maybe that's why monsters all know your party's capabilities.  In my games, the players tend to kill the monsters that might know what they can do, so none of them run off to the girl's room to chat later and spread around what the party can do.

JaronK

herp derp dizfrabadoooooo

meep meep

whine flail cry accuse missthepoint makeshitup failatlife

We've already figured out you don't actually play the game, just talk about it, so don't make stupid claims like this.

10/10.

I'd actually respond to it, but this is a 100% accurate summary of what has no contributing value to the forum, and whose writer (aka, Jaron) should An Hero immediately.

Skipping past more lies and fail.

[Soda]

At this point it's basically going back and forth between "herp derp" and intelligent, well-mannered posts. Time to end it, I think.

I wholly agree.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

At this point it's basically going back and forth between "herp derp" and intelligent, well-mannered posts. Time to end it, I think.

I wholly agree.

Hehe.

[Kajhera]

I enjoy making sock puppets to talk with. /lonely.

... Okay, so I haven't actually made a sock puppet in forever, much less for the purposes of talking to myself.  I can do that just fine on my own.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

Oh look, it's a fuckwit with a grand total of 3 posts, 2 of which are flaming me.

Making sock puppets does not make your arguments more valid. Additionally Jaron, or Kanya, or whatever name you go by after your little sex change real men do not feel the need to hide behind women's skirts. Either random sock puppets with female names, or Meg, doesn't matter. Be a real man, or be An Hero. Choose wisely. And do take your gay bestality lover with you.

Nah, I'm not JaronK. I was reading this thread for some time now and just today I decided to register... errr... I mean I finally managed to register... Stupid anti-bot measures.

And I'm flaming you because I don't like your gaming filozofy. But don't worry. I just had to let loose my pent up emotions. Reading some of your herp derping hurts my soul, so I just had to flame you, this one time. Now I'm feeling better and I'm just amused by your futile attempts on Hi Welcomig me.

[BeholderSlayer]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Nah, I'm not JaronK. I was reading this thread for some time now and just today I decided to register... errr... I mean I finally managed to register... Stupid anti-bot measures.

That's nice, you just pwned yourself. I think you might want to take RelentlessImp's advice. Those aren't genes that should be passed on.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

True!

[Bloody Initiate]

Such fine things should not be spoiler'd. If the thread is descending into random flaming spam anyway, at least highlight it with the occasional hotness that you don't have to click in order to see.

[BeholderSlayer]

Such fine things should not be spoiler'd. If the thread is descending into random flaming spam anyway, at least highlight it with the occasional hotness that you don't have to click in order to see.

Your approval and commentary has been noted. I assure you this mistake will not be made again.

[Sunic_Flames]

Now, now RI. Aelryinth took a little while to devolve into full bore fail. This fuckwit initiated with it.

Even Jaron did not start flailing and failing right away.

[Bloody Initiate]

Such fine things should not be spoiler'd. If the thread is descending into random flaming spam anyway, at least highlight it with the occasional hotness that you don't have to click in order to see.

Your approval and commentary has been noted. I assure you this mistake will not be made again.

Wolverine needs his happy!

[Anarchy_Kanya]

Bitch, u angry? Go whine, moan and complain, but you won't change the fact that you and your pimp are wrong.
I respect others opinions, and others styles of game, but it is clear (at least to me) that Sunic_Trolls is just ignorant. His way of playing is "superior" and everything else is just "coddling" players, fail DM's, etc. for him. If it works for him and his players, good for them, but it's not the One And True Way of playing. Bitch, better recognize!

And you know why I called you Sunics fanboy? Because you're attacking JaronK just like your pimp does. Having similar opinion is one thing, but ganging on one person? and with such fail arguments?

...Right. And you've managed to add what to this conversation? Most of us have managed to add something worthwhile to the conversation while you've done nothing but launch personal attacks left and right since you 'registered'.

Well... That bit about me not contributing is true... now I'm sad...

... but this:

I'm going to call you a dipshit, and put you in the same pile of fail. Please note, you sucker of donkey cocks, that bestiality is illegal in most of the world, and your animal-loving ways, while they may be actually hot, will not be tolerated. Furthermore, you ass-ramming stoolpusher, you've managed to actually irritate me, something that nobody else in this thread has managed to do. Congratulations.

Now, before you get mad enough that your face screws up enough that all that's visible are your prominent herpes sores, allow me to welcome you to Brilliant Gameologists with all the affection I can muster. Usually, this involves throwing the new person into the pigpen, devoid of clothes, scented in pig shit and musk, but as you've decided to leap both feet straight into personal attacks, you'll have to make do with the following:

I find you to be an individual with absolutely nothing useful to add to this community. Even spam bots manage to make themselves more worthwhile than you have during their brief stay on this board. In your very first post, you went from 'possible worthwhile member of the community' straight down to 'complete dipshit', completely bypassing 'mouth-breathing fuckwit', something only Aelryinth's managed to do so far. Congratulations, you just equaled the most moronic person polluting the various Character Optimization communities.

In response to your complete lack of intelligence, I suggest you seek out a Japanese family and request they guide you in their rituals of honorable suicide, otherwise known as ?? lit. "stomach-cutting", colloquially known as seppuku. Or, failing that, locate your nearest surgeon to have your reproductive organs removed, before you pollute your shallow end of the gene pool further.

Now, in case you actually aren't a sock puppet account, on top of all that, I bid you:

Hi Welcome

Makes me happy again.
What don't you say.
Okay. My bad for not trembling in awe of Sunic_Flames and his bitches "irrefutable" arguments.

Even Jaron did not start flailing and failing right away.

Tht's why his tha man, and you're tha pimp.

Oh, and BTW, I'm female. Just sain', so you can add some sexist comments to your flailing.