Author Topic: Input for 2 characters for a PbP game: DFA/Incarnate & Binder/Crusader  (Read 8381 times)

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Shadeseraph

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Well, I'm starting a PbP game here in BG, and I've drafted a pair of characters that I'd like to play. However, I'm not so sure about the builds, mainly because of the lack of focus. This is usually good in PbP game, because most PbPs are more story-driven and less party focused, but this game is somewhat special.

For reference, the thread where the idea of the game started is this: Thought experiment: No Core Magic.

For starters, it is a test game, intended to try the idea of a world without core magic/psionics. No class with casting/manifesting abilities is allowed, nor any magic items which replicates or requires spells/powers to be created (with some exceptions, though). As the title says, it is intended to be a "Though experimetn", which means that the DM surely won't cut us any slack. Lastly, there are a lot of players, so, while usually generalizing is better than specializing in PbP games, this time it's possible that this is not the case, because a lack of focus can mean easily that we start overlaping and losing effectivity.

AFAIK, we are allowed to use all non third-party books, and we are allowed to use homebrewed material on a case by case basis.

I'm trying to avoid the use of "dubious" tricks, even if they aren't specially imbalancing, such as metabreath feats for DFA breath weapon.

We are allowed 1 flaw, 2 traits and we can take LA adjusted races. I'd have to ask if non LA races with racial HDs are allowed.

As a side note, lans has allowed (or I think he has) DFA to meet the prerequisites for Soulcaster with invocations.

I'd like any kind of advice, even completely different progressions, or use of tricks (as long as they aren't  imbalancing) if they are deemed necesary. Also, I'd like to hear your opinion on the need to specialize or generalize (and if I'm doing it right or wrong), because I'm pretty much lost on that.

Without more preamble, here is the post I wrote in the thread detailing the characters:

[/spoiler]
Neutral Good Warforged Dragonborn (Senses Aspect)
DFA 5 / Incarnate 2 / Soulcaster 10

Str 8 (0)
Dex 12 (6)
Con 21 (13) + level bonuses
Int 11 (3)
Wis 6 (0)
Cha 14 (10)

Traits:
-Absent Minded
-Slow

Flaw: Non-combatant

Feats:
1-Entangling Breath
1-Air Heritage
3-Ability Focus (Breath Weapon)
6-Incarnum Spellshaper
9-Flyby Attack
12-Double Chakra
15-Improved Initiative

Invocations:
-Endure Exposure
-Draconic Knowledge
-Humanoid Shape
-Walk Unseen
-Chilling Fog
-Baleful Geas

Skills:
-Diplomacy
-Intimidate
-Use Magic Device
-Bluff

This character mostly plays as a mobile BFC; is fairly able to tank thanks to AC, saves and sky high HP; has some limited healing abilities; and is pretty good as a party face and decent as a Know-It-All (though I can change that to specialize as party face, adding together decent Cha + Beguiling Influence + Silvertongue Mask, for a +21 at 4th level to bluff and diplomacy, and +15 to intimidate).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryhel, Scion of the Water Dragon

[spoiler][/spoiler]
Neutral Good Half Elf Dragonborn (Winged Aspect) (Intermediate Water Elemental Bloodline)
Binder 4 / Crusader 1 / Bloodline 1 / Crusader +2 / Knight of the Sacred Seal 4 (Amon) / Bloodline +1 / Knight of the Sacred Seal +1 / Eternal Blade 1

Str 15 (8) +1(bloodline)
Dex 12 (6)
Con 16 (6)
Int 10 (2)
Wis 8 (0)
Cha 16 (10)

Traits:
-Plucky
-Stout

Skills:
-Gather Information
-Intimidate
-Knowledge (Religion)
-Sense Motive

Flaw: Shaky

Feats:
1-Combat Reflexes
1-Standstill
3-Weapon Focus (Glaive)
4(Binder)-Improved Binding
4(Bloodline)-Power Attack
6-Entangling Exhalation
9-Leap Attack
12-Improved Bullrush
15-Shock trooper

Maneuvers:
1-Crusader's Strike, Charging Minotaur, Dousing the Flames
2-Foehammer, Tactical Strike
3-White Raven Tactics, Iron Heart Surge

Stances:
1-Iron Guard's Glare
3-Thicket of Blades

This one starts mostly as a lockdown tank, gains some BFC abilities and a lot of utility, and ends being able to dish decent amounts of damage.

Well, that's it. I can't decide on which to take, and, of course, I'd love some input on them. I'm starting to think I'm trying to do too much, given the amount of players, but both incarnates and binders are prone to that.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 06:42:06 AM by Shadeseraph »
[spoiler]
I hate mouth breathing fuckwits who go around spouting lies, even after being corrected on those lies, and that bait mods into helping to defend their wrongness and fail. I also hate the MBFs that don't understand the meaning of words, and that can't get a fucking clue.
Hey! I like spouting lies. It's very entertaining to observe how people on the internet are buffing their small egos by declaring victories over some stupid MBFs. :smirk
Also - I hate people who use too smart words that I don't understand. :mad

Hi Welcome

Go fuck yourself, because others won't do it for you.

Stop flirting you two.  :p
[/spoiler]

Shadeseraph

  • Bi-Curious George
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Re: Input for 2 characters for a PbP game: DFA/Incarnate & Binder/Crusader
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2011, 07:41:19 AM »


Some other ideas I have:

For Halados, maybe staying DFA until lvl 10 can be better, for some extra class features and the 3rd breath effect, and, mostly, because of the size increase for the breath weapon. But, of course, that would rather decrease the amount of soulmelds I can use limiting my versatility a lot. Also, while I'm leery of using metabreath feats, maybe I should give them a try. Opinions?

For Ryhel maybe I should focus more on a single aspect. I feel that a standstill build with just a measly 10 feet reach in a world where enlarge and expansion aren't available looks somewhat lacking. I'd rather not do it, but maybe something along the lines of aberrant reach is needed. Also, I used bloodlines to mitigate part of the loss of binder levels because of crusader / EB, but maybe the hit to HP and saves can be too high. Given that I'm only using low level maneuvers and stances, maybe something along the lines of Binder 6 / KoSS 2 / Crusader 1 / Warblade 1 / KoSS +3 / Binder +2 is better. This would leave me with the same BL, far lower IL and less crusader abilities, but all the nice binder abilities, and some Warblade maneuvers, stances and class abilities, and a lot more HPs. Though I'd miss the water elemental dragon flavor. Well, refluffing works wonders, I suppose.

Mmm... that last option looks far tastier than the original, and less cheesy. Maybe something along the lines of:

Something (Half elf, Human or Elf, I suppose) Dragonborn (Winged Aspect)
Binder 6 / KoSS 2 (Amon) / Crusader 1 / Warblade 1 / KoSS 3 / Binder 2

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 14

Feats:
1-Combat Reflexes
1-Stand Still
3-Weapon Focus (Glaive)
4(Binder)-Improved Binding
6-Power Attack
9-Entangling Exhalation
12-Improved Bullrush
15-Shock Trooper

Mmm... I'm missing the extra feat from the bloodline. Maybe I should change Entangling Exhalation for Leap Attack, but I like the BFC Entangling Exhalation + Amon provides. Chupoclops covers pouncing, but maybe too late. On the other side, I get two sets of maneuvers, and I can get decent stances from WB, such as Hunter's Senses. I'd rather not lose the flying speed from dragonborn, given the lack of spells/magic items, so the race / aspect is pretty much set.

Opinions?

EDIT: Mmm... Amon's breath weapon has a recharge time, so metabreath feats should work with it. Quicken Breath can be pretty hardcore... Starting a battle with a pounce / dance + quickened entangling breath + repeated breath from KoSS can be awesome, and has a lot of BFC potential with standstill, and, anyway, I wasn't going to use the breath for the rest of the combat. But it is yet another feat... Maybe I can do without Combat Reflexes, given the lack of dex and Otiax giving it anyway.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 11:48:22 AM by Shadeseraph »
[spoiler]
I hate mouth breathing fuckwits who go around spouting lies, even after being corrected on those lies, and that bait mods into helping to defend their wrongness and fail. I also hate the MBFs that don't understand the meaning of words, and that can't get a fucking clue.
Hey! I like spouting lies. It's very entertaining to observe how people on the internet are buffing their small egos by declaring victories over some stupid MBFs. :smirk
Also - I hate people who use too smart words that I don't understand. :mad

Hi Welcome

Go fuck yourself, because others won't do it for you.

Stop flirting you two.  :p
[/spoiler]

Shadeseraph

  • Bi-Curious George
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Re: Input for 2 characters for a PbP game: DFA/Incarnate & Binder/Crusader
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2011, 08:14:55 AM »
After some thinking, Binder is too good to pass in this kind of campaign, so the draw has been broken. So, final character (I'm feeling dirty for using Lesser Cansin, but I'm too MAD):

Neutral Good Dragonborn Lesser Cansin (Winged Aspect) Binder 6 / Knight of the Sacred Seal (Astaroth) 2 / Crusader 1 / Warblade 1 / Knight of the Sacred Seal +3 / Scion of Dantalion 4 / Binder +2 / Crusader 1

Str 16 (10)
Dex 14 (6) - 2
Con 14 (6) + 2
Int 12 (4) + 2
Wis 8 (0)
Cha 14 (6) + 2

Traits:
-Plucky
-Stout

Flaws:
-Shaky

Feats:
1-Combat Reflexes
1-Stand Still
3-Power Attack
4(Binder)-Improved Binding
6-Weapon Focus (Longspear)
9-Improved Bull Rush
12-Shock Trooper
15-Leap Attack
18-Extra Granted Maneuver

Skills:
-Diplomacy - max
-Gather Information - max
-Knowledge [Planes] - 5
-Jump - max
-Knowledge [Nobility and Royalty] - 2

Crusader Maneuvers:
White Raven Tactics, Defensive Rebuke, Revitalizing Strike, Foehammer, Douse the Flames

Warblade Maneuvers:
Iron Heart Surge, Wall of Blades, Rabid Wolf Strike

Stances:
Thicket of Blades, Leaping Dragon Stance, Tactics of the Wolf

Desired Magic Items:
-Phylacteries. Lots of them.
-Veil of Allure

And, well, that's it. I think I'm pretty satisfied, except for the need to use Lesser Aasimar and for the last crusader level. Maybe I should change it for something else. Any opinions on anything on the build?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 11:42:14 AM by Shadeseraph »
[spoiler]
I hate mouth breathing fuckwits who go around spouting lies, even after being corrected on those lies, and that bait mods into helping to defend their wrongness and fail. I also hate the MBFs that don't understand the meaning of words, and that can't get a fucking clue.
Hey! I like spouting lies. It's very entertaining to observe how people on the internet are buffing their small egos by declaring victories over some stupid MBFs. :smirk
Also - I hate people who use too smart words that I don't understand. :mad

Hi Welcome

Go fuck yourself, because others won't do it for you.

Stop flirting you two.  :p
[/spoiler]