Brilliant Gameologists Forum
The Thinktank => Min/Max It! => : Anklebite August 14, 2009, 11:11:57 PM
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no, this post has nothing to do with factotums. instead, it abuses the master spellthief feat.
build:
[spoiler]build: bard1/wiz2/spellthief1/trapsmith1/assasin1/UM3/sublime chord2/UM+5/mindbender1/UM+2
race: human alignment: any non-good non-lawful
ACFs: martial wizard
lvl: class: feats:
lvl1 bard1 able learner; melodic casting;
lvl2 wizard1 improved initative;
lvl3 wizard2 extend spell;
lvl4 wizard3
lvl5 spellthief1
lvl6 trapsmith1 master spellthief;
lvl7 assasin1
lvl8 ult magus1 +bard;
lvl9 ult magus2 PS*(trapsmith); +wizard and trapsmith;
lvl10 ult magus3 +wizard and trapsmith;
lvl11 sublime chord1
lvl12 sublime chord2 persist spell;
lvl13 ult magus4 +sublime chord;
lvl14 ult magus5 sculpt spell; +sublime chord and trapsmith;
lvl15 ult magus6 PS*(sublime chord); +sublime chord and trapsmith;
lvl16 ult magus7 +sublime chord;
lvl17 ult magus8 +sublime chord and assasin;
lvl18 mindbender1** mindsight**; +sublime chord;
lvl19 ult magus9 invisible spell; +sublime chord and assasin;
lvl20 ult magus10 +sublime chord and bard(or any other, really);
*practiced spellcaster: can be dropped for other feats if needed.
**one of the options. others include touchstone+sandshaper, combat casting+abjurant champion, or co-op
spell+guildmage. hell, ever +1 level of assasin+ability focus would work, giving +3 to the death attack
DC and fourth level assasin spells. an other option is beguiler+PS(beguiler), for +8 to CL. or, even
better, bump it forward, shuffle feats for spring attack, and grab a level of telf shadowlord... screw the
assasin and wiz casting, advance shadowlord!
[/spoiler]
caster levels:
[spoiler]
spells known caster levels: pre master spellthief CL
bard: 3 6
assasin: 3 7
trapsmith: 5 13
wizard: 5 10
sublime chord: 10 21
spellthief: 0 5
total CL for all spells: 62
+ maxed song of arc power: 82
[/spoiler]
fun tactics:
[spoiler]
casting in light armor (cause we can)
persist cloud of knives (each one has +82 to hit)
abuse fire shuriken (makes 22 per casting, 28 with song)
abuse explosive runes (cause everyone else does)
wings of flurry(82d6)
maw of chaos (82d6 for eight minutes)
persisted shield (because we can, thats why)
persisted invisible spell obscuring mist (to screw with people who use true seeing)
chained(rod) hour/level buffs, lasting more than three days.
improvisation, gain 186 improv points, up to +41 on any skill check.... hahahahaha[/spoiler]
so, what else can we do with this abuse? :D
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Have you gone through this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=992549)?
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I did it better :P
they boast CL 45, I get 62 (82 with song of arcane power, which you WILL get max effect on due to improvization)
my trick is to use many different types of spellcasting, which then all get +4, and then add together. sure, you could boost it higher, but at this point.... it hardly needs it. in addition, you get bardic knowledge, abrupt jaunt or a familiar, a death attack(do it with a cloud of knives, yuk yuk yuk), mindsight, and a few free persists by blowing 6th level slots.
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The thing is, Master Spellthief gives you the ability to steal higher level spells, but not store them. So if you want to actually use the spells you steal, you need 9 levels of Spellthief or 6 levels and a Major Bloodline.
JaronK
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who cares about stealing spells? its two actions per spell! it's really only good when abusing your friend's SLAs. the main point is the stacking CL.
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question: how are you going to put this monstrous Cl to use? its not like there's anything you cant kill with an intensified maw of chaos, and BC/buff spells typically doesn't call for CL.
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mainly buffing and blasting, although a few BC spells work out really well. how about evard's black tentacles with +90 to the grapple check? it stops the bloody terrasque for 82 rounds.
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question: how are you going to put this monstrous Cl to use? its not like there's anything you cant kill with an intensified maw of chaos, and BC/buff spells typically doesn't call for CL.
Gate in something with 164 HD?
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question: how are you going to put this monstrous Cl to use? its not like there's anything you cant kill with an intensified maw of chaos, and BC/buff spells typically doesn't call for CL.
Gate in something with 164 HD?
AND actually be able to control it..... :D
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I'm just finishing a version of this monster using Ur-Priest/PrC Pally/SotAO shenanigans, and initial testing is showing a CL of 110 by all remotely sensible interpretations (because all other interpretations lead to infinite loops...which are bad). Feel like a divine blast, anyone? You know their buffs will fail from the quickened GDM (reserves of strength endowed, of course).
EDIT : Here's the stub -
[spoiler]Spellthief 1/Duskblade 1/Wizard 1/Sanctified One 1/Bard 1/Ur-Priest 1/PrC Pally of Freedom (CG) 1/Ultimate Magus 10/Sublime Chord 2/Spellwarp Sniper 1[/spoiler]
Progression -
[spoiler]Spellthief 1
Duskblade 1
Wizard 1
Sanctified 1
Bard 1
Ur-Priest 1
Prestige Paladin of Freedom 1
Ultimate Mage 1 - adding to Ur-Priest*
Ultimate Mage 2 - adding to Ur-Priest and Bard
Ultimate Mage 3 - adding to Ur-Priest and Bard
Sublime Chord 1
Sublime Chord 2
Ultimate Mage 4 - adding to SC
Ultimate Mage 5 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 6 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 7 - adding to SC
Ultimate Mage 8 - adding to Ur/SC
Spellwarp Sniper 1 - adding to Bard
Ultimate Mage 9 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 10 - adding to Ur/SC[/spoiler]
CL Breakdown
[spoiler]
Spellthief 4
Duskblade 5
Wizard 5
Bard 8
Ur-Priest 14+1/2 other
Sublime Chord 10+Ur-Priest
Spellthief 1+4 = 5
Duskblade 1+4 = 5
Wizard 1+4 = 5
Bard 1+4 = 5
Ur-Priest 14+10+14 = 38
Sublime Chord 14+38 = 52
-------
110 CL
[/spoiler]
That's what sense I can make of it. *Uses the Dragonblood Pool to get in, self-fulfilling once he's got Sword of the Arcane Order. After being marooned away from his beloved Kord, he siphons power from the cosmos, growing even stronger than ever before. By denying the gods of FR, he overcomes their paltry pantheons, mastering magicks that make even the most learned Dweomerkeeper weary. For the record...imagine a chained spell with that CL.
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I'm just finishing a version of this monster using Ur-Priest/PrC Pally/SotAO shenanigans, and initial testing is showing a CL of 110 by all remotely sensible interpretations (because all other interpretations lead to infinite loops...which are bad). Feel like a divine blast, anyone? You know their buffs will fail from the quickened GDM (reserves of strength endowed, of course).
That's what sense I can make of it. *Uses the Dragonblood Pool to get in, self-fulfilling once he's got Sword of the Arcane Order. After being marooned away from his beloved Kord, he siphons power from the cosmos, growing even stronger than ever before. By denying the gods of FR, he overcomes their paltry pantheons, mastering magicks that make even the most learned Dweomerkeeper weary. For the record...imagine a chained spell with that CL.
Use blasphemy if you really want to make your DM hate you and you really need to kill everyone who opposes you in a 60 foot radius.
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I'm just finishing a version of this monster using Ur-Priest/PrC Pally/SotAO shenanigans, and initial testing is showing a CL of 110 by all remotely sensible interpretations (because all other interpretations lead to infinite loops...which are bad). Feel like a divine blast, anyone? You know their buffs will fail from the quickened GDM (reserves of strength endowed, of course).
That's what sense I can make of it. *Uses the Dragonblood Pool to get in, self-fulfilling once he's got Sword of the Arcane Order. After being marooned away from his beloved Kord, he siphons power from the cosmos, growing even stronger than ever before. By denying the gods of FR, he overcomes their paltry pantheons, mastering magicks that make even the most learned Dweomerkeeper weary. For the record...imagine a chained spell with that CL.
Use blasphemy if you really want to make your DM hate you and you really need to kill everyone who opposes you in a 60 foot radius.
That was a silent tactic, given access to the Cleric list, but I'm fully aware of the reaming capability should I be so inclined :P Main thing is making sure the math is right on the CL. I know it's going to be retardedly high, and if it is indeed 110, that might be a new non-infinite record.
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I've tried this with Wizard 3/Spelltheif 1/Knight of the Weave 1/Ultimate Magus 10/Exalted Arcanist 5 or something like that. Wasn't super optimized but I had a CL in the 40s pre-items, and Holy Word on my spell list.
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That was a silent tactic, given access to the Cleric list, but I'm fully aware of the reaming capability should I be so inclined :P Main thing is making sure the math is right on the CL. I know it's going to be retardedly high, and if it is indeed 110, that might be a new non-infinite record.
I understand this isn't a simple question to answer, but if you don't mind, could you show the numbers for CL 110?
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That was a silent tactic, given access to the Cleric list, but I'm fully aware of the reaming capability should I be so inclined :P Main thing is making sure the math is right on the CL. I know it's going to be retardedly high, and if it is indeed 110, that might be a new non-infinite record.
I understand this isn't a simple question to answer, but if you don't mind, could you show the numbers for CL 110?
Check those spoilers. The second third one I believe has the math leading up to 110.
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In the third spoiler... why are you adding all those CLs together? And how is Ultimate Magus progressing Ur-Priest?
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In the third spoiler... why are you adding all those CLs together? And how is Ultimate Magus progressing Ur-Priest?
Also noted in the build. Dragonblood pool allows us to be considered an arcane caster (Doc Rock pioneered this trick on Algernon), and Master Spellthief adds all arcane CL's together. As I said, it should be infinite by any other reading, as SC does roughly the same thing, and so does Ur-Priest, only at half for non-Ur levels. Hopefully Anklebite will come on since he's far more elegant in explaining the MS trick, but the rest of it is easy enough to lay out (if rather cheesy...).
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Also noted in the build. Dragonblood pool allows us to be considered an arcane caster (Doc Rock pioneered this trick on Algernon), and Master Spellthief adds all arcane CL's together. As I said, it should be infinite by any other reading, as SC does roughly the same thing, and so does Ur-Priest, only at half for non-Ur levels. Hopefully Anklebite will come on since he's far more elegant in explaining the MS trick, but the rest of it is easy enough to lay out (if rather cheesy...).
Oh I thought you were just using Dragonblood to qualify, that makes sense then. And know I see how you're adding them, I misunderstood the feat, it's even better then I thought.
EDIT: And note that much how Magus's +4 CL is applied to each, items/feats should apply the same way. So you could easily get 120 after those.
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Also noted in the build. Dragonblood pool allows us to be considered an arcane caster (Doc Rock pioneered this trick on Algernon), and Master Spellthief adds all arcane CL's together. As I said, it should be infinite by any other reading, as SC does roughly the same thing, and so does Ur-Priest, only at half for non-Ur levels. Hopefully Anklebite will come on since he's far more elegant in explaining the MS trick, but the rest of it is easy enough to lay out (if rather cheesy...).
Oh I thought you were just using Dragonblood to qualify, that makes sense then. And know I see how you're adding them, I misunderstood the feat, it's even better then I thought.
I only just this morning thought to add the blaster concept (Ur-Priest + Hellfire Warlock + Eldritch Disciple and Theurge) to Master Spellthief. I knew anklebite had a really wicked one on here, and knowing I could get an Ur-Priest into UM and make it all mesh with the adaptations (including even Holy Fire on there), wanted to see how far I could take it. The Ref on that thing will probably suck pre-buffing, but post buffing it will be retardedly high. The Cleric buffs really go a long way towards adding versatility IMO, given that now he's also a fully functional gish and tank even. When I finish it, I'll post up the feats. There was another one from Dragonlance that converted casting to Cha IIRC, similar to Academic Priest, though failing that being only Cha and Int MAD isn't a bad thing...most clerics are Int/Cha/Con MAD anyhow, so no big change. That and he'd have even nicer skill points.
By the way...with Song of Arcane Power active, his CL goes up to 146.
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EDIT: And note that much how Magus's +4 CL is applied to each, items/feats should apply the same way. So you could easily get 120 after those.
Yeah...considering each +1 becomes like...+5.5 or so. It's like a consumptive field, only doesn't use spell slots :P I'd thought about throwing in Tainted Scholar, but with Echoing Spell in there somewhere he'd never run out of slots anyhow (and it's not like many things will be surviving his DD anyhow, especially if he leads off with a Quickened GDM from Battle Blessing and eats 1d6 to uncap it from Reserves of Strength). And of course there's always the GDM ~> Blasphemy/Dictum/Word of Chaos/Holy Word option.
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Spellthief 1
Duskblade 1
Wizard 1
Sanctified 1
Bard 1
Ur-Priest 1
Prestige Paladin of Freedom 1
Ultimate Mage 1 - adding to Ur-Priest*
Ultimate Mage 2 - adding to Ur-Priest and Bard
Ultimate Mage 3 - adding to Ur-Priest and Bard
Sublime Chord 1
Sublime Chord 2
Ultimate Mage 4 - adding to SC
Ultimate Mage 5 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 6 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 7 - adding to SC
Ultimate Mage 8 - adding to Ur/SC
Spellwarp Sniper 1 - adding to Bard
Ultimate Mage 9 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 10 - adding to Ur/SC[/spoiler]
CL Breakdown
Spellthief 4
Duskblade 5
Wizard 5
Bard 8
Ur-Priest 14+1/2 other
Sublime Chord 10+Ur-Priest
Spellthief 1+4 = 5
Duskblade 1+4 = 5
Wizard 1+4 = 5
Bard 1+4 = 5
Ur-Priest 14+10+14 = 38
Sublime Chord 14+38 = 52
-------
110 CL
Hi Kell!
Some thoughts (weakening the build)
- I think Ur-Priest is less. 2 Ur + 8 Pusedo Ur + 5 (Other casting classes) + 4 (Arcane Spell Power). = 19 total. The text says "To determine the caster level of an Ur-Priest, add the character's ur-priest levels to 1/2 the levels in other spellcasting classes". Strict Raw would say 2 + 1/2 (18) + 4 = 15. Practically speaking, I think you count the classes that progress Ur-priest as if they were urpriest.
- Master spelltheif only sets the CL for arcane spells - for example, you can up your sublime chord spells to crazy CL. However the Ur-Priest don't change, as they are divine.
- "A sublime chord's CL for spells from both sublime chord and other arcane caster levels is determined by adding CL from sublime chord to CL from another arcane CL". So I don't think you can add Ur-Priest and sublime chord.
Some thoughts (strengthening your build)
- The spell "Transfer Essense" from the dragonlance book "towers of high sorcery" should allow another +8 to each class, assuming an 18th level
victum (uh, cohort w/ the improved cohort feat). - Circle Magic should probably increase the CL of each class by the full amount (up to a total of 40 each class)
- Consumptive field (even if applied only once) is * 150%, and probably should apply to all classes
Best,
David
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Hiya David!
Well, not really. I only counted levels twice that we're dual progression, and Ur-Priest most definitely is considered arcane, thanks to Sword of the Arcane Order. Those aren't divine spells in those slots from that feat. Furthermore, Ur-Priest is treated as arcane again from the Dragonblood Pool trick. I'm pretty sure the CL is either dead on or damn close. I had thought about adding in circle magic, but that would A)take too many levels, and B)not go nearly as high, as that caps out at 40. Level 20 slots are nice for the DC's though, and every blaster loves free Maximize and Empower. I'll have to look into Transfer Essence, and I hadn't touched Consumptive Fields yet, since those are NI anyway (especially when the unaugmented duration is upwards of a week for 1 hour/level spells).
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Hiya David!
Well, not really. I only counted levels twice that we're dual progression, and Ur-Priest most definitely is considered arcane, thanks to Sword of the Arcane Order. Those aren't divine spells in those slots from that feat. Furthermore, Ur-Priest is treated as arcane again from the Dragonblood Pool trick. I'm pretty sure the CL is either dead on or damn close. I had thought about adding in circle magic, but that would A)take too many levels, and B)not go nearly as high, as that caps out at 40. Level 20 slots are nice for the DC's though, and every blaster loves free Maximize and Empower. I'll have to look into Transfer Essence, and I hadn't touched Consumptive Fields yet, since those are NI anyway (especially when the unaugmented duration is upwards of a week for 1 hour/level spells).
Ah, my mistake.
I didn't know about the Dragon's blood pool trick.
There is a small but moderate amount of dragonlance stuff which is good which people don't use. Maybe I should get a thread started. Hmm.
Best,
David
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Hiya David!
Well, not really. I only counted levels twice that we're dual progression, and Ur-Priest most definitely is considered arcane, thanks to Sword of the Arcane Order. Those aren't divine spells in those slots from that feat. Furthermore, Ur-Priest is treated as arcane again from the Dragonblood Pool trick. I'm pretty sure the CL is either dead on or damn close. I had thought about adding in circle magic, but that would A)take too many levels, and B)not go nearly as high, as that caps out at 40. Level 20 slots are nice for the DC's though, and every blaster loves free Maximize and Empower. I'll have to look into Transfer Essence, and I hadn't touched Consumptive Fields yet, since those are NI anyway (especially when the unaugmented duration is upwards of a week for 1 hour/level spells).
Ah, my mistake.
I didn't know about the Dragon's blood pool trick.
There is a small but moderate amount of dragonlance stuff which is good which people don't use. Maybe I should get a thread started. Hmm.
Best,
David
By all means! I've got the book but haven't paged through it in a while, other than to check on Academic Priest and Dragonspawn. The big standout IMO is the Bozak Draconian.
EDIT : Thought of another reason to use Phantasmal Steed with the PrC Pally version : Mounted Combat is required to get in. Wanna ignore damage whenever you're mounted (which is at least 110 hours)?
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the CL workings of the master spell thief feat shennanigens are as follows:
-first, you have the base caster level for a class.
-then, you add flat bonuses to CL, such as from UM and such.
-master spellthief then directly ADDS together ALL arcane CLs, and uses this new number as your CL for all arcane spells.
now, If you will excuse me, I must go find the twit who removed Fu from the boards, and slap him with a semi-frozen halibut.
my black hat goes off to you Kell, as you just won my thread! :twitch :clap :clap :clap
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Progression -
[spoiler]Spellthief 1
Duskblade 1
Wizard 1
Sanctified 1
Bard 1
Ur-Priest 1
Prestige Paladin of Freedom 1
Ultimate Mage 1 - adding to Ur-Priest*
Ultimate Mage 2 - adding to Ur-Priest and Bard
Ultimate Mage 3 - adding to Ur-Priest and Bard
Sublime Chord 1
Sublime Chord 2
Ultimate Mage 4 - adding to SC
Ultimate Mage 5 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 6 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 7 - adding to SC
Ultimate Mage 8 - adding to Ur/SC
Spellwarp Sniper 1 - adding to Bard
Ultimate Mage 9 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 10 - adding to Ur/SC[/spoiler]
Hi hi,
I have 3 questions, first, where can I find Dragonblood Pool?
Second, the arcane spell casting class that the UM advances needs to be the one with the lowest CL. At UM 1, your Ur CL is already 4 (1 Ur + 1 Prc pally, + 6/2 other arcane class levels). Making it higher than the your other arcane classes.
Even if we don't take the PrC pally and the Ur's CL boost into consideration, after improving the Ur's CL at UM 1, your Ur is now CL 2. Which will also make it not a valid arcane CL to improve at UM 2. What am I missing?
Third, is there a special reason why you are chosing to improve the Ur CL? Improving PrC pally would work too right?
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I have 3 questions, first, where can I find Dragonblood Pool?
This keeps coming up: Dragonsblood Pool is a Magical Location listed on pg 149 of Complete Mage.
You specifically can't buy the effects of Magical Locations, but there's nothing from stopping you from counting it as equivalent treasure, given the rules listed for magical locations. DMs are encouraged to use them in place of treasure, so it follows that they can be counted as such. Thus, they are particularly good for character creation, though not nearly so much once a game is going on, unless you can count on the DM to grant you access.
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And the missing part is that Master Spellthief sets the CL of all arcane classes to the same number, enabling the build to progress UM onto whatever I want. Thanks again to the Dragonblood Pool, until Ur-Priest has SotAO tech to back it up.
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I read what I thought was most of the thread and didn't think anyone said this, so I apologize for saying it again (and even saying it at all) if it's already been said:
It's spelled "Dilettante"
Sorry, there's mispellings and then there's butchery. The former is hard enough to abide without the latter rubbing salt in the wound.
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I have 3 questions, first, where can I find Dragonblood Pool?
This keeps coming up: Dragonsblood Pool is a Magical Location listed on pg 149 of Complete Mage.
Thanks!
And the missing part is that Master Spellthief sets the CL of all arcane classes to the same number, enabling the build to progress UM onto whatever I want. Thanks again to the Dragonblood Pool, until Ur-Priest has SotAO tech to back it up.
That's fricking brilliant! Hats off to you and Anklebite :D
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I read what I thought was most of the thread and didn't think anyone said this, so I apologize for saying it again (and even saying it at all) if it's already been said:
It's spelled "Dilettante"
Sorry, there's mispellings and then there's butchery. The former is hard enough to abide without the latter rubbing salt in the wound.
It's mostly because everyone else knew what he meant and didn't feel the need to point it out. To have to rub it in, so to speak.
It is helpful to show someone the correction to their spelling. To call their's butchery and commenting on it further is just mean-spirited. Let's be civil here.
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I read what I thought was most of the thread and didn't think anyone said this, so I apologize for saying it again (and even saying it at all) if it's already been said:
It's spelled "Dilettante"
Sorry, there's mispellings and then there's butchery. The former is hard enough to abide without the latter rubbing salt in the wound.
It's mostly because everyone else knew what he meant and didn't feel the need to point it out. To have to rub it in, so to speak.
It is helpful to show someone the correction to their spelling. To call their's butchery and commenting on it further is just mean-spirited. Let's be civil here.
I wasn't trying to be uncivil. I thought if anything I was calling myself a geek, but I suppose I made the mistake of assuming text could carry inflection.
I'm sorry for any insult to the OP, it wasn't meant to be rude or mean-spirited at all.
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I read what I thought was most of the thread and didn't think anyone said this, so I apologize for saying it again (and even saying it at all) if it's already been said:
It's spelled "Dilettante"
Sorry, there's mispellings and then there's butchery. The former is hard enough to abide without the latter rubbing salt in the wound.
It's mostly because everyone else knew what he meant and didn't feel the need to point it out. To have to rub it in, so to speak.
It is helpful to show someone the correction to their spelling. To call their's butchery and commenting on it further is just mean-spirited. Let's be civil here.
I wasn't trying to be uncivil. I thought if anything I was calling myself a geek, but I suppose I made the mistake of assuming text could carry inflection.
I'm sorry for any insult to the OP, it wasn't meant to be rude or mean-spirited at all.
No worries, I was merely using the same wording as the original post to avoid confusion. Firefox wouldn't let it go through otherwise :P And having studied linguistics, I caught the dry humor behind it, too :P Now what makes me curious with either version (particularly when using Spellwarp Sniper) is what happens when you use some of the damage boosting feats on an arcane thesis spell. Take everyone's much maligned blast, fireball. d6/level, capped, Long range, Ref for half. Well, until we get a hold of it and make it a thesis spell. How would fireball do if it were turned into a medieval RPB (Rocket Propelled Bullet, for those who've played Unreal Tournament), by making it a Fiery, Invisible, Spellwarped, Blistering Fireball from Hell, and taking the 1d6 damage from Reserves of Strength to uncap it. Anklebite's would be packing 62d6+186 damage on a ranged touch attack, untyped damage (assuming a one level dip or two vile feats to make it all vile damage from selling our soul), for an average of 372 damage. Ouch. Now the kicker : Fiery (-1 level), Invisible (-2 levels, we're at a cantrip here), Blistering (-1 level, so now we're at negative spell levels), for a net of Spell Level -1. Does this mean it draws such a small amount of arcane energy we can fire them off at will, like a warlock? Does it default to a cantrip? As such, can we make an item of it as a cantrip usable at will?
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I think you can make it an item, but sadly it won't be as wonderful as it sounds. The item will be wonderful, for sure, but it won't be easy to make.
Items take caster level into account in their price and therefore their experience cost as well as time required to create. While the spell level may be low the caster level will not be.
It would be fun to create though, and one thing I like about optimization is that it explains a lot of things that were previously DM fiat. Instead of just saying "It works that way because I said so" to the players, you can instead start with "I'm glad you asked..."
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Here's one for the Mailman : Take Arcane Thesis : Fireball on my version, and replace the second level of Sublime Chord with Arcane Devotee, picking up Enlarge Spell somewhere in there. Congrats, all spells are now automatically double range! 9600 ft range on that fireball now, which just so happens to be a ray. That's just a little shy of 2 miles. Hi, I'm a Dragunov now! Want more? Enlarge it, for -1 level (I think it's a +1 metamagic, even so, at break even that's a bargain). Now you've got a range of 19,200 ft with a ray or a blast. Even if you don't try and snipe at this range (which will probably require some serious altitude), that's some hefty indirect fire artillery.
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You also need some divination magic to even see your target given the spot check distance penalties.
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Does anyone know what the nonepic noninfinite CL record is? Because I could see one being possible with Circle Magic from this build, easily.
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I'm not sure if anyone had bothered to set a record. Regardless, if you're going for one, you'll probably want Persistent (Greater) Consumptive Field and an Earth/Evil/Shadow Weave Node.
Come to think of it, what was your intended record caster level, anyway? Because it's possible to get something rather high with an Illithid Savant, spellcasting, and Cosmic Connection.
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Ok, his thesis spell needs to change, or SWS dropped for Mindbender or some other tasty 1 level dip, BUT! There is something far more important here. This is the first build to my knowledge that one-shots the Twice-Betrayer. Like, no questions asked pounds it, as a single MDJ eradicates all AMF's and buffs/contingencies. He'll have to come back from a clone/time shift and specifically ward against it, which is IMO still a victory (especially since I can do the same thing). The mere fact that he's assured a win on round 1 though is sexy.
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KELL. Can you afford 4 levels in your 110CL build?
Check out page 45 of Champions of Valor. Paladin variant that allows you to add arcane caster level to your paladin casting to determine the CL. This would effectively double the end CL of the build.
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KELL. Can you afford 4 levels in your 110CL build?
Check out page 45 of Champions of Valor. Paladin variant that allows you to add arcane caster level to your paladin casting to determine the CL. This would effectively double the end CL of the build.
High One Warrior Wizard? Or Sword of the Arcane Order feat? Because I already have the latter. It would take some monkeying to get HOWW, though if the base CK ended above say...70, it'd be worth it so long as it still got Ur and SC 9's. As is now I get CL 110 with dual nines, and both Sor only and Wiz only (along with conceivably every divine spell). But if I know the variant for sure I'll have a better idea if it can fit.
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Mystic Fire Knight.
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Mystic Fire Knight.
Which sub-level is it? Like...what class feature does it replace, as it might be a different level on PrC Pally.
EDIT : Looks like it's the same level as Turn Undead, which PrC Pally gets at level 1, though I don't know if it'd be possible to append the Improved Spellcasting onto the end of it. If it is, it's a whole new mess of figuring out the CL, since it'll figure into base now, plus Ur-Priest twice. And we get a few freebie spell slots, woot!
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Ok, his thesis spell needs to change, or SWS dropped for Mindbender or some other tasty 1 level dip, BUT! There is something far more important here. This is the first build to my knowledge that one-shots the Twice-Betrayer. Like, no questions asked pounds it, as a single MDJ eradicates all AMF's and buffs/contingencies. He'll have to come back from a clone/time shift and specifically ward against it, which is IMO still a victory (especially since I can do the same thing). The mere fact that he's assured a win on round 1 though is sexy.
I never thought about using it that way....
holy hell! I discovered the lead in method to making a character to kill the twice-betrayer!
....
holy fuck kell, you just killed the twice betrayer!
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Ok, his thesis spell needs to change, or SWS dropped for Mindbender or some other tasty 1 level dip, BUT! There is something far more important here. This is the first build to my knowledge that one-shots the Twice-Betrayer. Like, no questions asked pounds it, as a single MDJ eradicates all AMF's and buffs/contingencies. He'll have to come back from a clone/time shift and specifically ward against it, which is IMO still a victory (especially since I can do the same thing). The mere fact that he's assured a win on round 1 though is sexy.
I never thought about using it that way....
holy hell! I discovered the lead in method to making a character to kill the twice-betrayer!
....
holy fuck kell, you just killed the twice betrayer!
Icing on the cake : Sub the level of PrC Pally for Silver Pyromancer, and you blithely ignore the challenge's one pitfall for our magechild of doom, which was no UA. SP's get the Pally list, which is all we care about for SotAO. CL is pinned at 110 for that version, but meh. Also, if we do get Improved Spellcasting from Mystic Fire Knight sub level on the level a pally would get Turn Undead, our ending CL leaps to 224.
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A couple questions about your build, Kell:
1) How are you meeting sanctified one's +5 BAB requirement?
2) How are you getting the turn undead requirement to enter PrC Paladin? All Ur-Priest gives is rebuke, and that's at the second level of it.
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A couple questions about your build, Kell:
1) How are you meeting sanctified one's +5 BAB requirement?
2) How are you getting the turn undead requirement to enter PrC Paladin? All Ur-Priest gives is rebuke, and that's at the second level of it.
1) Ironically I hadn't posted it yet, but I'd noticed that discrepancy as well.
2) This will also be fixed by the solution to 1) above.
Sub out Sanctified One with a level of Cloistered Cleric. You don't lose the domain granted powers or turn undead, only spellcasting from going Ur-Priest. And you have at least 4 BAB fractionally, allowing entry into PrC Pally. Alternately you can find another arcane class to jam in there, and pick up Silver Pyromancer in place of PrC Pally (such as if UA is frowned upon, though if they allow this beast, UA is the least of their worries). SOoK was only there for Holy Fire, and there are enough ways to make damage whatever type you want, anyhow. Hell, sell your soul to deal 1/2 vile, 1/2 unholy damage on every spell with the two feats you get :P
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Ok, here's one centered around Wizard, that gets an even higher CL.
Build Skeleton
[spoiler]1)Spellthief 1-
2)Wizard 1-
3)Wizard 2-
4)Wizard 3-
5)UM 1-
6)UM 2-
7)Incantatrix 1-
8)Incantatrix 2-
9)Incantatrix 3-
10)Bard 1-
11)SC 1-
12)UM 3-
13)UM 4-
14)UM 5-
15)UM 6-
16)UM 7-
17)UM 8-
18)UM 9-
19)UM 10-
20)Incantatrix 4-[/spoiler]
CL Calc
[spoiler]Spellthief 4+8+40=52
Wizard 40+4+8=52
Bard 40+4+8=52
SC 40+4+8=52
--------------------------
208 * 1.5 = 312 (Consumptive Field)[/spoiler]
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In Dragon Magazine there is a Spellthief variant which would give you I think 5 more CL.
Drop to 4 skill points, lose all sneak attack after level 1, lose trapsense, gain spell casting as a Bard, starting at level 1.
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In Dragon Magazine there is a Spellthief variant which would give you I think 5 more CL.
Drop to 4 skill points, lose all sneak attack after level 1, lose trapsense, gain spell casting as a Bard, starting at level 1.
Forgot all about that, I have that one even :P CL 317 and counting!
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Ok, here's one centered around Wizard, that gets an even higher CL.
Build Skeleton
[spoiler]1)Spellthief 1-
2)Wizard 1-
3)Wizard 2-
4)Wizard 3-
5)UM 1-
6)UM 2-
7)Incantatrix 1-
8)Incantatrix 2-
9)Incantatrix 3-
10)Bard 1-
11)SC 1-
12)UM 3-
13)UM 4-
14)UM 5-
15)UM 6-
16)UM 7-
17)UM 8-
18)UM 9-
19)UM 10-
20)Incantatrix 4-[/spoiler]
CL Calc
[spoiler]Spellthief 4+8+40=52
Wizard 40+4+8=52
Bard 40+4+8=52
SC 40+4+8=52
--------------------------
208 * 1.5 = 312 (Consumptive Field)[/spoiler]
You seem to have 12 levels of ultimate magus in this build.
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No I don't, I pick 2 up and then come back to it later to pick up the other 8 :P
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Am I missing something, because the master spell theif feat lets you stack spell theif levels with other arcane spellcaster levels. It is the actual class levels, not the caster level.
I had a similar build back in the day with the Ur-Priest and Nar Demonbinder. Linking those two together required an algrebra equation since each increase in one also increased the other, back and forth. The problem was each said levels in an other spell casting class, again not caster level. Also I have seen it argued both ways if prestige classes that advance spell casting, but lack their own spell casting, add into the equation.
So even if you have 20 different 1 level casting classes each with a +4 caster level bonus, you still only have 20 class levels.
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well, since the specific wording is
"Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack
when determining your caster level for all arcane spells.",
you add together arcane spellcaster levels. which we artificially pump up using various methods, most notably ultimate magus. its arcane spellcaster levels (caster levels) after all, not "levels in arcane spellcasting classes" or "spells known levels"(hahaha I wish it was this one; talk about abusable!).
personally, I think it still works, but it is hard to find faults in ones children. anyone have anything more conclusive than this?
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I think I'm missing something here too. I realize that the addition of Ur and SC makes the calculations wonky because of their very nature, but exactly where does the loop begin?
I think I kind of see it... sort of.
Say we have
Wizard 1
Bard 1
Spellthief 1
Ur-Priest 1 (Mystic Theurge progresses it to 10)
SC 2 (MT progresses it to 10)
Mystic Theurge 10
X Arcane caster 1
So 17 class levels. Forget qualification for a sec here.
The caster levels for each would be...
SC 13 (adds an arcane spellcasting class by default; two base levels, +1 from another, then )
UP 19 (adds half all other arcane spellcasters; this includes SC, which notably increases its CL a lot thanks to MT)
Wizard 16 (Adding all those levels together)
Bard 16 (Same)
Spellthief 16 (Same)
X Arcane caster 16 (Same)
I think I see where the loop begins. Since each class would have to recalculate its CL after determining each class' CL, it gets to something like this:
SC: 29 + 16 (Wiz) + 16 (Bard) +16 (Spellthief) +16 (X) = 93 (SWEET MOTHER OF GOD!)
Wizard: 16 + 16 (Bard) + 16 (Spellthief) + 16 (X) + 29 (SC) = 93
Bard: 16 + 16 (Wiz) + 16 (Spellthief) +16 (X) + 29 (SC) = 93
X: 16 + 16 (Wiz) +16 (Spellthief) +16 (Bard) +29 (SC) = 93
Spellthief: Same as three above.
UP (Oh god...): 19 + 46.5 = 65.5
Problem is, when does the loop stop, exactly?
Also, I still don't figure how song of arcane power adds 36 to that specific build (haven't done the math in mine yet).
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the fun thing with song of arcane power is that it increases CL, which you then add together. so it gives the same sort of hyperboost that the ultimate magus gives. one could also have some fun with the +1 CL ioun stone.
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Kuroimaken, for those last three levels, I nominate at least 1-2 of them for Tainted Scholar :P You have unbeatable CL, why not have unbeatable DC's with NI spells/day? :P
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I'm unfamiliar with Tainted Scholar. Exactly why is it considered so awesome?
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I'm unfamiliar with Tainted Scholar. Exactly why is it considered so awesome?
It replaces your casting stat with your Taint score and makes all your spells [evil], which means you accumulate more Taint just by casting them. I think you can see where this is going.
Also, three free levels on a build that abuses stacking of different classes? Dare I suggest a major bloodline? :P
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I'm unfamiliar with Tainted Scholar. Exactly why is it considered so awesome?
You use your taint score instead of Int/Cha for spellcasting. If you're undead, you don't suffer negative effects of taint, so you can go ahead and get an arbitrarily high taint score without worrying about it.
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major bloodline
oh holy crap... possibly a smaller one and a tainted scholar dip? how gouda can we make this?
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Is there any reason for Tainted Scholar (HoH) over Tainted Sorcerer (UA)?
As far as I can tell, they seem effectively the same, but Tainted Sorcerer gets Tainted Metamagic at level 1 and can use Blood Component for expensive material components. And with UA Taint rules, you only have 1 Taint score to increase, where as HoH requires you to get Depravity and Corruption scores higher, and your casting from Tainted Scholar only increases depravity when you cast a spell. So, unless I'm missing something, Tainted Sorcerer seems notably better.
EDIT: Considering for both that you wouldn't want to take more than 1 level before going back to better classes.
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Is there any reason for Tainted Scholar (HoH) over Tainted Sorcerer (UA)?
As far as I can tell, they seem effectively the same, but Tainted Sorcerer gets Tainted Metamagic at level 1 and can use Blood Component for expensive material components. And with UA Taint rules, you only have 1 Taint score to increase, where as HoH requires you to get Depravity and Corruption scores higher, and your casting from Tainted Scholar only increases depravity when you cast a spell. So, unless I'm missing something, Tainted Sorcerer seems notably better.
EDIT: Considering for both that you wouldn't want to take more than 1 level before going back to better classes.
nice catch. ok then, tainted SORCERER, and then two levels of bloodline. is it just me, or can you tell just how cheesy something is just by the fact it uses bloodlines?
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ya, its a good rule of thumb.
your never really gonna see human fighter17/Human BL 3.
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ya, its a good rule of thumb.
your never really gonna see human fighter17/Human BL 3.
Or, for that matter, any build with Fighter 17. :P
But yeah, bloodlines usually come into play when there's some ability you want to magnify far beyond normal.
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Also, if we use the bloodlines as they were intended (i.e. as described in PBMC's handbook), we still get 20 levels to work with (given that with Experience as a River, this dude could EASILY pay for his bloodline levels and bounce right back to par with the party).
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Is there any reason for Tainted Scholar (HoH) over Tainted Sorcerer (UA)?
Mainly that one is official while the other is basically homebrew.
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where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it. "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*
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where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it. "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*
I thought that (outside of epic level progressions) eldritch blast had no set formula? It's always been "read from the table," I think.
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where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it. "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*
I thought that (outside of epic level progressions) eldritch blast had no set formula? It's always been "read from the table," I think.
huh, good point. I just went with the obvious "1/2 lvl til 10, 1/3 lvl after that" that I remembered. what was the epic progression again?
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where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it. "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*
I thought that (outside of epic level progressions) eldritch blast had no set formula? It's always been "read from the table," I think.
huh, good point. I just went with the obvious "1/2 lvl til 10, 1/3 lvl after that" that I remembered. what was the epic progression again?
+1d6 at every even-numbered level over 20.
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where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it. "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*
I thought that (outside of epic level progressions) eldritch blast had no set formula? It's always been "read from the table," I think.
huh, good point. I just went with the obvious "1/2 lvl til 10, 1/3 lvl after that" that I remembered. what was the epic progression again?
+1d6 at every even-numbered level over 20.
wow, if you include the epic progression, it's much higher...
5d6+4d6+21d6= 30d6 base, and 40d6 with song of arcane power up.
:twitch
holy shit, this had better not actually work. seriously, that's eff'ed up. please, for the love of crap somebody prove me wrong with the relevant RAW.
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holy shit, this had better not actually work. seriously, that's eff'ed up. please, for the love of crap somebody prove me wrong with the relevant RAW.
My guess would be that because it's "look at the table" and the table stops at 20, so does the progression. You can't get Epic things until you are epic, even if you qualify.
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holy shit, this had better not actually work. seriously, that's eff'ed up. please, for the love of crap somebody prove me wrong with the relevant RAW.
My guess would be that because it's "look at the table" and the table stops at 20, so does the progression. You can't get Epic things until you are epic, even if you qualify.
did they put that in writing anywhere? would love to be able to quote that.
not doubting you. just really want to know where to find it.
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I think it's written out in the Epic rules. Or it could be included in the "just because it doesn't say you can't doesn't mean you can" clause.
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I think it's written out in the Epic rules. Or it could be included in the "just because it doesn't say you can't doesn't mean you can" clause.
yeah, but then I think you might be able to get away with it. I can hear the arguments now...
"hey guys, it seems that the epic level material was made to help extrapolate current progressions beyond their written max. since that is what we are doing, isn't the epic material the RAW? after all, the epic warlock was written for warlocks who surpassed caster level 20! therfore, RAW states that this works! herp derp derp."
I think we need a more definite RAW reading to shut this sort of thing down.
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Wouldn't this fall under the same category as the asshole buttfucks that claim a Wizard 5 with bardic music can't cast the 4th level spells of Sublime Chord 1 because they don't have CL 7? The progression on Warlock is not only calculable as a formula (decaying to a slower rate at 10th, and reverting at 20th, but still a formula), but riddled with existing exceptions as is. A particular warlock build I have floating around snags 30d6 EB abusing hellfire, and still gets 9th level spells, and that's without CL trickery. I see absolutely no reason why this wouldn't work, and ultimately, given what all these guys can do, see no real bearing a 30 or 40 die EB can make compared to what their real NI spell slots can. It does make for nice shock value, though :P
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Wouldn't this fall under the same category as the asshole buttfucks that claim a Wizard 5 with bardic music can't cast the 4th level spells of Sublime Chord 1 because they don't have CL 7? The progression on Warlock is not only calculable as a formula (decaying to a slower rate at 10th, and reverting at 20th, but still a formula), but riddled with existing exceptions as is. A particular warlock build I have floating around snags 30d6 EB abusing hellfire, and still gets 9th level spells, and that's without CL trickery. I see absolutely no reason why this wouldn't work, and ultimately, given what all these guys can do, see no real bearing a 30 or 40 die EB can make compared to what their real NI spell slots can. It does make for nice shock value, though :P
hahaha, shock value it has in spades. "oh I'm so sorry that my absurd amount of spellslots overshadowed you, but please wait over there while I output more damage per round at will than you can nova for."
incidentally, can sublime chord take wings of flurry as a spell known? you know why I am asking.
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where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it. "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*
I thought that (outside of epic level progressions) eldritch blast had no set formula? It's always been "read from the table," I think.
huh, good point. I just went with the obvious "1/2 lvl til 10, 1/3 lvl after that" that I remembered. what was the epic progression again?
+1d6 at every even-numbered level over 20.
wow, if you include the epic progression, it's much higher...
5d6+4d6+21d6= 30d6 base, and 40d6 with song of arcane power up.
:twitch
holy shit, this had better not actually work. seriously, that's eff'ed up. please, for the love of crap somebody prove me wrong with the relevant RAW.
From Master Spellthief:
"Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells."
They reference that the warlock is neither an "arcane spellcaster" nor does he cast "arcane spells" many times in Complete Arcane, but they do explain how certain benefits such as +1 arcane spellcaster lv prestige classes work as well as how specific feats and prestige classes do or do not interact with warlocks.
Complete Arcane page 7 - "Invocations: A warlock does not prepare or cast spells as other wields of arcane magic do."
Same page, under the same heading "Since spell like abilities are not actually spells, a warlock cannot benefit from the Spell Focus feat". He can, however benefit from the Ability Focus feat.. as well as from feats taht emulate metamagic effects for spell-like abilities, such as Quicken Spell-Like Ability.."
Warlocks don't "count as arcane casters".
Complete Arcane page 18 - "Warlocks benefit in a specific way from prestige classes that have "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" or +1 level of existing spellcasting class" as a level advancement benefit."
Same page:
"A warlock cannot qualify for prestige classes with spellcasting level requirements, as he never actually learns to cast spells".
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erm.... I have some dumb questions. :(
1. How does Ur-Priest benefit from a Dragonblood Pool? In order to use the pool you have to be able to spontaneously cast 2nd level or higher spells, which gets one a bonus arcane spell slot for 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level. How does that make Ur-Priest arcane instead of divine?
2. Sword of the Arcane Order lets you put wizard spells in your paladin spell slots. Not arcane spells, but wizard spells. It says nothing about changing the source of those spell slots from divine to arcane.
3. What sane DM would allow the interpretation of Master Spellthief to do what it does here instead of the much more obvious, "spellthief + one other arcane class = CL for that class, repeat for each arcane class you have?"
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erm.... I have some dumb questions. :(
1. How does Ur-Priest benefit from a Dragonblood Pool? In order to use the pool you have to be able to spontaneously cast 2nd level or higher spells, which gets one a bonus arcane spell slot for 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level. How does that make Ur-Priest arcane instead of divine?
2. Sword of the Arcane Order lets you put wizard spells in your paladin spell slots. Not arcane spells, but wizard spells. It says nothing about changing the source of those spell slots from divine to arcane.
3. What sane DM would allow the interpretation of Master Spellthief to do what it does here instead of the much more obvious, "spellthief + one other arcane class = CL for that class, repeat for each arcane class you have?"
1. Ur-Priest is simply the class selected. By the time it's needed, the character easily fulfills the prereq's for the pool, and where it's appended is open ended. This is the Algernon trick.
2. Nor does it state that they are converted from arcane to divine, which is the default for Sor/Wiz spells. As such, they are arcane, since there is no specific to trump the general. Unless of course you want the Twice-Betrayer Slayer to start abusing Nightstick tech :D
3. Said sane DM would be creating a house rule, as the RAW on the feat is pretty clear (and explained earlier in this thread).
And asdfjkl, having a CL and being able to benefit from spellcasting class increases is all the proof needed to show a warlock most definitely would benefit from this build's CL with Master Spellthief. Furthermore, they most definitely are considered spellcasters, as if you'll recall, they too are afforded access to the Epic Spellcasting feat if they have 24 ranks in Knowledge (The Planes). That says it all right there, as far as I'm concerned. You don't get the nuclear weapons of D&D casters by being a non-caster, plain and simple.
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Sane DMs are the stuff of freakin' legend.
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3. What sane DM would allow the interpretation of Master Spellthief to do what it does here instead of the much more obvious, "spellthief + one other arcane class = CL for that class, repeat for each arcane class you have?"
Because that's flat not what it says.
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And asdfjkl, having a CL and being able to benefit from spellcasting class increases is all the proof needed to show a warlock most definitely would benefit from this build's CL with Master Spellthief. Furthermore, they most definitely are considered spellcasters, as if you'll recall, they too are afforded access to the Epic Spellcasting feat if they have 24 ranks in Knowledge (The Planes). That says it all right there, as far as I'm concerned. You don't get the nuclear weapons of D&D casters by being a non-caster, plain and simple.
I didn't know that warlocks got Epic Spellcasting. Where does it say that exactly?
I only know of three sources where epic warlocks are discussed: Complete Arcane p189 where epic spellcasting isn't mentioned at all, the 3.5 FAQ where warlocks and epic spellcasting isn't mentioned at all (although it is mentioned that eldritch blast is a spell like ability and that the warlock is not a spellcasting class for normal purposes), and the web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a), where epic spellcasting is not on the list of bonus feats, nor is it mentioned.
Epic Spellcasting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSpellcasting) doesn't mention warlocks either, and neither does the 3.5 update or web enhancements that I found.
RAW: Warlock is not an arcane spellcaster. It doesn't cast spells; it uses spell like abilities. You aren't advancing warlock CL/invocations with your +1 arcane spellcaster classes, you are using a feat which is different and is stated as such in complete arcane.
I suppose if you houserule that warlocks are an arcane spellcasting class or even "Warlocks count as an arcane spellcasting class for purposes of the Master Spellthief feat" then it will work.
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Ok, my previous wizard was miscalculated, as I was assuming Circle Magic was in play (different build for later). The Twice Betrayer Slayer, Mk II :
Spellthief 1/Bard 1/Wizard 3/Tainted Sorcerer 1/Ultimate Magus 1/Shadowcraft Mage 3/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 2-10
-Experience is a River or Item Familiar to soak up a major bloodline (any, though ideal is custom with 10 bonus feats)
-Spellthief variant granting bardic spellcasting progression from level 1.
-Caster level of 177 without gear or augmentation
Wizard = 17 + 4 + 3|24
SC = 8 + 4 + 3|15=39
Bard = 46
Spellthief = 46
Wizard = 46
SC = 39
We're built for rocket tag with the [Evil] subtype, properly buffed to always go in a surprise round. Initiative = pwnt. Activate the bead as part of the action of casting a spell, fry the TBoS's defenses with an MDJ. Swift action spell for the kill. We've got Reserves of Strength and more free metamagic than we know what to do with, especially as a Shadowcraft Mage, so make it showy :) Nothing says owned like a Twinned Empowered Maximized Crushing Fist of Spite to the face of the unkillable, as they turn into a grease spot between the dukes :D
EDIT : Oh, and just curious...does it say what we have to do with stolen spells from Spellthief? Since I can think of a good home for all of the TBoS's spell slots before I fry him, since this build can cast metamagicked miracles out of cantrips :)
EDIT #2 : Quickly doing the math, the XP to buy bloodline levels is 3,000+6,000+12,000. Incidentally, exactly the amount of XP gained by investing XP in an Item Familiar. Coincidence?
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nice work. I have spring break coming up, I'll see if I can top that.
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nice work. I have spring break coming up, I'll see if I can top that.
Me too, with the Circle Magic version. The beauty of this one, though, is that other than an early entry hack on the spell levels, he's pretty tame in terms of questionable rules (i.e. none, and totally RAW legal, PrC Pally free).
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nice work. I have spring break coming up, I'll see if I can top that.
Me too, with the Circle Magic version. The beauty of this one, though, is that other than an early entry hack on the spell levels, he's pretty tame in terms of questionable rules (i.e. none, and totally RAW legal, PrC Pally free).
yeah, although with the redone math, the original build has caster level 94 when buck-naked and unbuffed. plus, with a few well placed practiced spellcaster feats, I can pump the CL even farther. if I add in some drag mag, for the bardic casting spellthief, that's another +12 to the CL.
we are gonna have fun with this thing. :D
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Sane DMs are the stuff of freakin' legend.
+1.
seriously, to take that mantle upon yourself, you have to be barking mad.
i'm not sure which to be more worried about, the fact that i'm apparently mad, or that i just lay down positive arguments regarding that fact.
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Kell, the previous build you said was in error because it was using circle magic, I'm assuming that's where the +40 cl to each class was coming from? If not, where did that come from?
Edit:
i'm not sure which to be more worried about, the fact that i'm apparently mad, or that i just lay down positive arguments regarding that fact.
Do you wear a hat and/or enjoy tea parties?
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Yes, double post, however: Kell, re-read the section in sublime chord talking about setting caster level, as Ankelbite pointed out in another thread. It makes all you caster levels for arcane spell casting classes equal to your sublime chord caster level. That increases that total CL quite a bit.
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Yes, double post, however: Kell, re-read the section in sublime chord talking about setting caster level, as Ankelbite pointed out in another thread. It makes all you caster levels for arcane spell casting classes equal to your sublime chord caster level. That increases that total CL quite a bit.
Well, if it resets the Wizard level, but stays put there, it would be (3x37)+33, or 141. I was keeping it tame, though RAW I believe you're right. Thus, gearless it pwns the TBoS :)
Bard 1+4
Spellthief 1+4
Wizard 17+4
SC 8+21=33, resets bard, wizard, and spellthief base to 33
Is this how you're seeing it?
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Yes, double post, however: Kell, re-read the section in sublime chord talking about setting caster level, as Ankelbite pointed out in another thread. It makes all you caster levels for arcane spell casting classes equal to your sublime chord caster level. That increases that total CL quite a bit.
Well, if it resets the Wizard level, but stays put there, it would be (3x37)+33, or 141. I was keeping it tame, though RAW I believe you're right. Thus, gearless it pwns the TBoS :)
Bard 1+4
Spellthief 1+4
Wizard 17+4
SC 8+21=33, resets bard, wizard, and spellthief base to 33
Is this how you're seeing it?
that's how the RAW works. :D
the twice betrayer can kiss out collective behinds. we can kill him in one round with MDJ+quickened wings of flurry(or any reserves of strength blast spell, really)
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Yes, double post, however: Kell, re-read the section in sublime chord talking about setting caster level, as Ankelbite pointed out in another thread. It makes all you caster levels for arcane spell casting classes equal to your sublime chord caster level. That increases that total CL quite a bit.
Well, if it resets the Wizard level, but stays put there, it would be (3x37)+33, or 141. I was keeping it tame, though RAW I believe you're right. Thus, gearless it pwns the TBoS :)
Bard 1+4
Spellthief 1+4
Wizard 17+4
SC 8+21=33, resets bard, wizard, and spellthief base to 33
Is this how you're seeing it?
that's how the RAW works. :D
the twice betrayer can kiss out collective behinds. we can kill him in one round with MDJ+quickened wings of flurry(or any reserves of strength blast spell, really)
Yup, certainly looks like it, doesn't it?
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Yes, double post, however: Kell, re-read the section in sublime chord talking about setting caster level, as Ankelbite pointed out in another thread. It makes all you caster levels for arcane spell casting classes equal to your sublime chord caster level. That increases that total CL quite a bit.
Well, if it resets the Wizard level, but stays put there, it would be (3x37)+33, or 141. I was keeping it tame, though RAW I believe you're right. Thus, gearless it pwns the TBoS :)
Bard 1+4
Spellthief 1+4
Wizard 17+4
SC 8+21=33, resets bard, wizard, and spellthief base to 33
Is this how you're seeing it?
that's how the RAW works. :D
the twice betrayer can kiss out collective behinds. we can kill him in one round with MDJ+quickened wings of flurry(or any reserves of strength blast spell, really)
Yup, certainly looks like it, doesn't it?
yeah, I can't image an unbuffed caster with no magic items (cause we MDJ'ed his ass) surviving 141d6 of anything.
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Yes, double post, however: Kell, re-read the section in sublime chord talking about setting caster level, as Ankelbite pointed out in another thread. It makes all you caster levels for arcane spell casting classes equal to your sublime chord caster level. That increases that total CL quite a bit.
Well, if it resets the Wizard level, but stays put there, it would be (3x37)+33, or 141. I was keeping it tame, though RAW I believe you're right. Thus, gearless it pwns the TBoS :)
Bard 1+4
Spellthief 1+4
Wizard 17+4
SC 8+21=33, resets bard, wizard, and spellthief base to 33
Is this how you're seeing it?
that's how the RAW works. :D
the twice betrayer can kiss out collective behinds. we can kill him in one round with MDJ+quickened wings of flurry(or any reserves of strength blast spell, really)
Yup, certainly looks like it, doesn't it?
yeah, I can't image an unbuffed caster with no magic items (cause we MDJ'ed his ass) surviving 141d6 of anything.
Hell, as high of a CL as we have, we could be real dicks and throw the MDJ as a swift action and then power attack as a Solar and squish him like a bug :P Really once the buffs go down, he's boned. Wanna really be a dick? Ready actions (using Shadow Miracles to emulate the Synchronicity shuffle if desired) to steal his spells as he attempts to rebuff. Thanks for the refill, here's a consolation prize of 261d6 of Force in the eye!
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Being Immune to HP damage.
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Being Immune to HP damage.
Not unbuffed he's not ;)
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Being Immune to HP damage.
that went away when we disjunctioned him. :D
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That's true. You can cover most bases with Ex things but you just can't keep full coverage without spells. I'm just trying to figure something out that will stop it. :P
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pun-pun
He's like the Godwin of borderline-TO builds.
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That's true. You can cover most bases with Ex things but you just can't keep full coverage without spells. I'm just trying to figure something out that will stop it. :P
you pretty much need epic spells to stop a disjunction. the damn thing is overpowered as hell; but not in a good way, you can't really make use of it in a campaign. do so, and lose loot.
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I've got it! My build for killing the TBoS I wanted to be stylish. MDJ, followed by at least a DC 60+spell level save or die. :fu Twice-Betrayer, DC 68 Save or Die, reroll it if you do roll a nat 20. And just to be sure, cast out of a quickened Greater Arcane Fusion so there's something else making a grease spot out of the corpse.
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I've got it! My build for killing the TBoS I wanted to be stylish. MDJ, followed by at least a DC 60+spell level save or die. :fu Twice-Betrayer, DC 68 Save or Die, reroll it if you do roll a nat 20. And just to be sure, cast out of a quickened Greater Arcane Fusion so there's something else making a grease spot out of the corpse.
my version of "stylish" is slightly different.
cast MDJ.
cast Iceberg. laugh as the so-called unkillable build dies from being unable to breathe or move while being crushed under several hundred tons of ice.
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Here we go : Chained Apocalypse from the Sky. DC 70. Explosive. Sculpted a spot out for us, contingent Planar Bubble to keep from suffocating on the off chance we were lazy and didn't bother making breathing a non-issue. Watch the world burn. Literally. All of it. With the last little spot being where he's standing :)
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Here we go : Chained Apocalypse from the Sky. DC 70. Explosive. Sculpted a spot out for us, contingent Planar Bubble to keep from suffocating on the off chance we were lazy and didn't bother making breathing a non-issue. Watch the world burn. Literally. All of it. With the last little spot being where he's standing :)
Except Explosive means everyone else flies towards that spot where he is standing... Better also be incorporeal. :P
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Here we go : Chained Apocalypse from the Sky. DC 70. Explosive. Sculpted a spot out for us, contingent Planar Bubble to keep from suffocating on the off chance we were lazy and didn't bother making breathing a non-issue. Watch the world burn. Literally. All of it. With the last little spot being where he's standing :)
Except Explosive means everyone else flies towards that spot where he is standing... Better also be incorporeal. :P
That can be done as well. Hell, my build is a shadowcraft mage...for all the TBoS knows I considered him such an ant I used my CL to make a Sim at mostly full power and it owned his ass :P
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Question on the ur-priest build posted back on page one: How do you qualify for SotAO with only a single level of paladin, prestige or no?
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Question on the ur-priest build posted back on page one: How do you qualify for SotAO with only a single level of paladin, prestige or no?
Dicey reading of Dragon Magic pg 18. Partly RAI also on the Ranger and Paladin deity specific feats, but since proven RAW illegal. Besides...the new one gets higher CL and WAY more spell slots, at impossible DC's. And 100% RAW legal, if kinda cheesy on the early entry...but fuck, that's the least of a DM's worries when something has Tainted Sorc/SCM and a CL over 140 :)
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Kell, the previous build you said was in error because it was using circle magic, I'm assuming that's where the +40 cl to each class was coming from? If not, where did that come from?
Edit:
i'm not sure which to be more worried about, the fact that i'm apparently mad, or that i just lay down positive arguments regarding that fact.
Do you wear a hat and/or enjoy tea parties?
you have no idea how hard i fought to resist the "Mad as a hatter" schtick.
but no, i usually wear a hood. crap, there's another reference!
and fuck tea. real men drink coffee.
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Kell, the previous build you said was in error because it was using circle magic, I'm assuming that's where the +40 cl to each class was coming from? If not, where did that come from?
Edit:
i'm not sure which to be more worried about, the fact that i'm apparently mad, or that i just lay down positive arguments regarding that fact.
Do you wear a hat and/or enjoy tea parties?
you have no idea how hard i fought to resist the "Mad as a hatter" schtick.
but no, i usually wear a hood. crap, there's another reference!
and fuck tea. real men drink coffee.
hey now, don't be dissin' tea. I have a special homebrew ( :drums ) version I make that has been dubbed "death tea", or "the tea of death".
basically, about 12 caffeine filled tea bags in 4 liters of water, along with another 4 camomile tea bags, and then add a cup or two of sugar. the result is a super potent caffeine buzz that doesn't cause hyperactivity, allowing for several hours of win. recipe is, of course, party sized. and is normally iced. I use it for DnD.
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Kell, the previous build you said was in error because it was using circle magic, I'm assuming that's where the +40 cl to each class was coming from? If not, where did that come from?
Edit:
i'm not sure which to be more worried about, the fact that i'm apparently mad, or that i just lay down positive arguments regarding that fact.
Do you wear a hat and/or enjoy tea parties?
you have no idea how hard i fought to resist the "Mad as a hatter" schtick.
but no, i usually wear a hood. crap, there's another reference!
and fuck tea. real men drink coffee.
hey now, don't be dissin' tea. I have a special homebrew ( :drums ) version I make that has been dubbed "death tea", or "the tea of death".
basically, about 12 caffeine filled tea bags in 4 liters of water, along with another 4 camomile tea bags, and then add a cup or two of sugar. the result is a super potent caffeine buzz that doesn't cause hyperactivity, allowing for several hours of win. recipe is, of course, party sized. and is normally iced. I use it for DnD.
FUCK PARTY SIZE!
i am changing my opinion on tea.
i wonder where one would buy caffeine around here.
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Kell, the previous build you said was in error because it was using circle magic, I'm assuming that's where the +40 cl to each class was coming from? If not, where did that come from?
Edit:
i'm not sure which to be more worried about, the fact that i'm apparently mad, or that i just lay down positive arguments regarding that fact.
Do you wear a hat and/or enjoy tea parties?
you have no idea how hard i fought to resist the "Mad as a hatter" schtick.
but no, i usually wear a hood. crap, there's another reference!
and fuck tea. real men drink coffee.
hey now, don't be dissin' tea. I have a special homebrew ( :drums ) version I make that has been dubbed "death tea", or "the tea of death".
basically, about 12 caffeine filled tea bags in 4 liters of water, along with another 4 camomile tea bags, and then add a cup or two of sugar. the result is a super potent caffeine buzz that doesn't cause hyperactivity, allowing for several hours of win. recipe is, of course, party sized. and is normally iced. I use it for DnD.
FUCK PARTY SIZE!
i am changing my opinion on tea.
i wonder where one would buy caffeine around here.
you miss-interpret. it's "party sized" because of how many I usually end up sharing with. although, come to think of it, people often decline....
"hey, want some tea?"
"sure, what kind?"
"ah, It's a specialty of mine. I call it The Tea of Death."
".....I think I'll pass."
the conversation tends to go like that.
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Kell, the previous build you said was in error because it was using circle magic, I'm assuming that's where the +40 cl to each class was coming from? If not, where did that come from?
Edit:
i'm not sure which to be more worried about, the fact that i'm apparently mad, or that i just lay down positive arguments regarding that fact.
Do you wear a hat and/or enjoy tea parties?
you have no idea how hard i fought to resist the "Mad as a hatter" schtick.
but no, i usually wear a hood. crap, there's another reference!
and fuck tea. real men drink coffee.
hey now, don't be dissin' tea. I have a special homebrew ( :drums ) version I make that has been dubbed "death tea", or "the tea of death".
basically, about 12 caffeine filled tea bags in 4 liters of water, along with another 4 camomile tea bags, and then add a cup or two of sugar. the result is a super potent caffeine buzz that doesn't cause hyperactivity, allowing for several hours of win. recipe is, of course, party sized. and is normally iced. I use it for DnD.
FUCK PARTY SIZE!
i am changing my opinion on tea.
i wonder where one would buy caffeine around here.
you miss-interpret. it's "party sized" because of how many I usually end up sharing with. although, come to think of it, people often decline....
"hey, want some tea?"
"sure, what kind?"
"ah, It's a specialty of mine. I call it The Tea of Death."
".....I think I'll pass."
the conversation tends to go like that.
I like this thing more and more.
"Hey i'm brewing some caffeine bomb for the party tonight"
"Sure thi... OHMYGODTHERESLIKE4LITERSTHERE!"
"yeah, this is for the whole group"
"ah"
2 hours later
"Do you guys want some tea of death?"
"uhh... no?"
"whatever, more for me" *swallows 4 liters of caffeine-laced tea, then gets killed by angry intestines*
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optimizing tea is like optimizing kobolds: at first, "what the crap is this? I can't use this shit! it doesn't work well at all!".
after one begins to truely understand it, however.... you find yourself hard pressed not to automatically include it in everything.
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When I make tea (rare occasion since my wife is just as avid an espresso junkie as I am, though less so on the stronger java) it tends to go a similar route. However...ever seen Colombian coffee that is utterly jet black? Heh, if you have to sink to the level of the arabica bean, at least use it properly :) And my espresso has been called a heart attack in a cup. And since I drink on average 3-4 pots of super charged coffee a day (at least 1 just to wake up), it takes like 2 NOS back to back for the caffeine to really start to make me fly. Anything less just keeps the withdrawal headache away :P
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When I make tea (rare occasion since my wife is just as avid an espresso junkie as I am, though less so on the stronger java) it tends to go a similar route. However...ever seen Colombian coffee that is utterly jet black? Heh, if you have to sink to the level of the arabica bean, at least use it properly :) And my espresso has been called a heart attack in a cup. And since I drink on average 3-4 pots of super charged coffee a day (at least 1 just to wake up), it takes like 2 NOS back to back for the caffeine to really start to make me fly. Anything less just keeps the withdrawal headache away :P
enter pure caffeine shots. extremely dangerous? yeah. but using the kobolds analogy above, it can be compared to the danger of book smacking performed by the DM.
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I once tried mixing espresso in the death tea. didn't take so well. granted, it had enough caffeine to kill a horse, but the taste was awful. luckily, I only ruined one glass of the stuff that way, which I was able to drink after diluting with dairy.
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When I make tea (rare occasion since my wife is just as avid an espresso junkie as I am, though less so on the stronger java) it tends to go a similar route. However...ever seen Colombian coffee that is utterly jet black? Heh, if you have to sink to the level of the arabica bean, at least use it properly :) And my espresso has been called a heart attack in a cup. And since I drink on average 3-4 pots of super charged coffee a day (at least 1 just to wake up), it takes like 2 NOS back to back for the caffeine to really start to make me fly. Anything less just keeps the withdrawal headache away :P
enter pure caffeine shots. extremely dangerous? yeah. but using the kobolds analogy above, it can be compared to the danger of book smacking performed by the DM.
I wish :( the closest we have to this is a coffee shot that's like 100 mg or more of caffeine condensed into a creamer container for fast food coffee. Now...once I did make an entire 24 oz cup of coffee using just the coffee shots...THAT gave me a buzz, and possibly at the time an irregular heartbeat, but meh...only live once in this body, and they don't pay ya for bringing it all home anyway :P
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I once tried mixing espresso in the death tea. didn't take so well. granted, it had enough caffeine to kill a horse, but the taste was awful. luckily, I only ruined one glass of the stuff that way, which I was able to drink after diluting with dairy.
have you been maxing your fort saves?
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I once tried mixing espresso in the death tea. didn't take so well. granted, it had enough caffeine to kill a horse, but the taste was awful. luckily, I only ruined one glass of the stuff that way, which I was able to drink after diluting with dairy.
have you been maxing your fort saves?
born with a high con mod, and somehow a racial HD in barbarian. no clue how that happened. regardless, my fort save is not a problem.
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I once tried mixing espresso in the death tea. didn't take so well. granted, it had enough caffeine to kill a horse, but the taste was awful. luckily, I only ruined one glass of the stuff that way, which I was able to drink after diluting with dairy.
have you been maxing your fort saves?
born with a high con mod, and somehow a racial HD in barbarian. no clue how that happened. regardless, my fort save is not a problem.
lucky bastard, i just got stuck with expert and all the knowledge skills, and craft (computers).
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I once tried mixing espresso in the death tea. didn't take so well. granted, it had enough caffeine to kill a horse, but the taste was awful. luckily, I only ruined one glass of the stuff that way, which I was able to drink after diluting with dairy.
have you been maxing your fort saves?
born with a high con mod, and somehow a racial HD in barbarian. no clue how that happened. regardless, my fort save is not a problem.
lucky bastard, i just got stuck with expert and all the knowledge skills, and craft (computers).
IRL druid, with enough levels to have immunity to natural poison :P
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Does Ring of Spell-Battle stop MDJ if you use the re-direct function?
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I once tried mixing espresso in the death tea. didn't take so well. granted, it had enough caffeine to kill a horse, but the taste was awful. luckily, I only ruined one glass of the stuff that way, which I was able to drink after diluting with dairy.
have you been maxing your fort saves?
born with a high con mod, and somehow a racial HD in barbarian. no clue how that happened. regardless, my fort save is not a problem.
lucky bastard, i just got stuck with expert and all the knowledge skills, and craft (computers).
well, I did multiclass out. got 1 rank in those skills, too. But, I must say, fast movement comes in really damn handy.
Does Ring of Spell-Battle stop MDJ if you use the re-direct function?
pretty sure ring of spell-battle only affects targeted spells. MDJ has the audacity to be a 20 ft radius burst.
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Even if it does, I don't recall TBoS having one. And even if he does, my final write-up already has that included just in case (yay, arcane tennis!). Don't worry, all angles are being covered, and really, the defenses of the TBoS have one flaw in that they must be renewed. The final version of my Dark Spellthief Master Magus won't trouble himself with such sundries, instead relying upon the infallible nature of a mythal. Which mind you even a GOD can't bring down, only suppress 1d4 rounds, which will also be planned for (and foreseen).
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I once tried mixing espresso in the death tea. didn't take so well. granted, it had enough caffeine to kill a horse, but the taste was awful. luckily, I only ruined one glass of the stuff that way, which I was able to drink after diluting with dairy.
have you been maxing your fort saves?
born with a high con mod, and somehow a racial HD in barbarian. no clue how that happened. regardless, my fort save is not a problem.
lucky bastard, i just got stuck with expert and all the knowledge skills, and craft (computers).
IRL druid, with enough levels to have immunity to natural poison :P
the most useful skill in the world, is profession(computer wiz).
of course, prof(gamer) is nice too.
also, i'm prolly gonna get some archivist levels once i graduate.
Even if it does, I don't recall TBoS having one. And even if he does, my final write-up already has that included just in case (yay, arcane tennis!). Don't worry, all angles are being covered, and really, the defenses of the TBoS have one flaw in that they must be renewed. The final version of my Dark Spellthief Master Magus won't trouble himself with such sundries, instead relying upon the infallible nature of a mythal. Which mind you even a GOD can't bring down, only suppress 1d4 rounds, which will also be planned for (and foreseen).
you know what? fuck you, wizards :fu
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you know what? fuck you, shadowcraft mages :fu
fixed. :D
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you know what? fuck you, shadowcraft mages :fu
fixed. :D
It's true. I never imagined it could surpass the almighty Incantatrix for me, but given the capabilities it has when augmented with one of Incantatrix or UM, it is indisputably the top dog, possibly only equaled by the raw power of Tainted Sorcerer.
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you know what? fuck you, shadowcraft mages :fu
fixed. :D
and guess who wrote the shadowcraft mage? it wasn't fucking TSR.
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you know what? fuck you, shadowcraft mages :fu
fixed. :D
It's true. I never imagined it could surpass the almighty Incantatrix for me, but given the capabilities it has when augmented with one of Incantatrix or UM, it is indisputably the top dog, possibly only equaled by the raw power of Tainted Sorcerer.
which you then combined with it. :lmao
also, who needs incantatrix when your hour/lvl buffs last 5.8 days, your 10min/lvl's last 23.5 hours, and your round/level spells last a quarter of an hour?
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I have no idea what my class skills are, all I know is that I probably have high HD and perhaps a bit of DR.
You see, a 25 kg steel beam once fell on my back. From 4 stories up. Besides feeling quite a bit of pain on my back for a few days, I got no damage at all. I also never broke a single bone, except for my right pinky.
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Psh, horses only have a +4 fort save.
Edit:failpoasting via phone, yet again...
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I have no idea what my class skills are, all I know is that I probably have high HD and perhaps a bit of DR.
You see, a 25 kg steel beam once fell on my back. From 4 stories up. Besides feeling quite a bit of pain on my back for a few days, I got no damage at all. I also never broke a single bone, except for my right pinky.
Good Reflex saves plus Evasion?
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I have no idea what my class skills are, all I know is that I probably have high HD and perhaps a bit of DR.
You see, a 25 kg steel beam once fell on my back. From 4 stories up. Besides feeling quite a bit of pain on my back for a few days, I got no damage at all. I also never broke a single bone, except for my right pinky.
Good Reflex saves plus Evasion?
It fell squarely on my back. Where's the evasion?
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Iron Heart Surge away the damage.
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you know what? fuck you, shadowcraft mages :fu
fixed. :D
It's true. I never imagined it could surpass the almighty Incantatrix for me, but given the capabilities it has when augmented with one of Incantatrix or UM, it is indisputably the top dog, possibly only equaled by the raw power of Tainted Sorcerer.
which you then combined with it. :lmao
also, who needs incantatrix when your hour/lvl buffs last 5.8 days, your 10min/lvl's last 23.5 hours, and your round/level spells last a quarter of an hour?
well, its kinda nice for nonbuffs.
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you know what? fuck you, shadowcraft mages :fu
fixed. :D
It's true. I never imagined it could surpass the almighty Incantatrix for me, but given the capabilities it has when augmented with one of Incantatrix or UM, it is indisputably the top dog, possibly only equaled by the raw power of Tainted Sorcerer.
which you then combined with it. :lmao
also, who needs incantatrix when your hour/lvl buffs last 5.8 days, your 10min/lvl's last 23.5 hours, and your round/level spells last a quarter of an hour?
well, its kinda nice for nonbuffs.
Or for spells that don't have durations determined by CL.
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Iron Heart Surge away the damage.
Come on, damage is the one thing that Iron Heart Surge can't deal with that...
From now on I'm mentally picturing Kuro as Chad.
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I have no idea what my class skills are, all I know is that I probably have high HD and perhaps a bit of DR.
You see, a 25 kg steel beam once fell on my back. From 4 stories up. Besides feeling quite a bit of pain on my back for a few days, I got no damage at all. I also never broke a single bone, except for my right pinky.
Good Reflex saves plus Evasion?
It fell squarely on my back. Where's the evasion?
Bah, that's just fluff. You rolled with it and took no damage. :P
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Iron Heart Surge away the damage.
Come on, damage is the one thing that Iron Heart Surge can't deal with that...
From now on I'm mentally picturing Kuro as Chad.
IHS away the steel beam's momentum, then. :P
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Iron Heart Surge away the damage.
Come on, damage is the one thing that Iron Heart Surge can't deal with that...
From now on I'm mentally picturing Kuro as Chad.
Except I didn't bleed at all.
Also, I'm average height (which the RL picture thread could tell you) and don't have Mexican grandparents. :p
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Ok, back on topic, I corrected the post in page 5, and we all forgot the bloodline increases...his final CL before feats, items, and buffs, is 165. One Hundred Fucking Sixty Five!
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Ok, back on topic, I corrected the post in page 5, and we all forgot the bloodline increases...his final CL before feats, items, and buffs, is 165. One Hundred Fucking Sixty Five!
Persistent MoC will be....
2376000d6 damage total
smack intensified on that, and get 21384000 damage.
twin, 42768000 damage.
make sure to cover up the edges in explosive greases so they cannot escape.
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make sure to cover up the edges in explosive greases so they cannot escape.
Oh dear, that actually works doesn't it. That is hilarious, although they could still move over the grease during their turn as the reflex save only occurs during your turn, but that is what sculpt spell is for.
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or you could border the MOC with a stone wall, which has explosive greases around it, and around those is another stone wall.
All are invisible, as is the MOC.
good luck surviving for long enough to get out.
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Explosive wall of blades...Have to save when they pass into it...
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Explosive wall of blades...Have to save when they pass into it...
well, we'll have to do all of those, of course.
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Explosive wall of blades...Have to save when they pass into it...
well, we'll have to do all of those, of course.
Sculpted flast-frost snowcasted BoTT Explosive Solid Fog? surrounding it instead? Would it have to be widened to fit, still?
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Wait, with a caster level like that, Templenuke...
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Wizard = 17 + 4 + 3|24
SC = 8 + 4 + 3|15=39
Bard = 46
Spellthief = 46
Wizard = 46
SC = 39
Forgot to add the bloodline to Bard/Wizard/Spellthief...>.> CL 177...<.< Damn, got even more insane :P
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wait.... locate city nuke
1770 miles of BOOM!
AND: fell animate. zombie apocalypse anyone?
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wait.... locate city nuke
1770 miles of BOOM!
AND: fell animate. zombie apocalypse anyone?
Heh...more like Locate City Continent Breaker :D
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wait.... locate city nuke
1770 miles of BOOM!
AND: fell animate. zombie apocalypse anyone?
Heh...more like Locate City Continent Breaker :D
Nukes can be continent breakers. If they're big enough.
or, hell, stones can be continent breakers if they're big enough.
or, dammit, a pebble of force thrown at very high speeds.
-
wait.... locate city nuke
1770 miles of BOOM!
AND: fell animate. zombie apocalypse anyone?
Heh...more like Locate City Continent Breaker :D
Nukes can be continent breakers. If they're big enough.
or, hell, stones can be continent breakers if they're big enough.
or, dammit, a pebble of force thrown at very high speeds.
Could always argue that a rod of immovability destroys worlds, since it anchors to planar fabric and planets revolve around a sun...
-
wait.... locate city nuke
1770 miles of BOOM!
AND: fell animate. zombie apocalypse anyone?
Heh...more like Locate City Continent Breaker :D
Nukes can be continent breakers. If they're big enough.
or, hell, stones can be continent breakers if they're big enough.
or, dammit, a pebble of force thrown at very high speeds.
Could always argue that a rod of immovability destroys worlds, since it anchors to planar fabric and planets revolve around a sun...
rod of immovability aint immovable. you dont even need that much force to push them(str DC 30 i think).
-
wait.... locate city nuke
1770 miles of BOOM!
AND: fell animate. zombie apocalypse anyone?
Heh...more like Locate City Continent Breaker :D
Nukes can be continent breakers. If they're big enough.
or, hell, stones can be continent breakers if they're big enough.
or, dammit, a pebble of force thrown at very high speeds.
Could always argue that a rod of immovability destroys worlds, since it anchors to planar fabric and planets revolve around a sun...
rod of immovability aint immovable. you dont even need that much force to push them(str DC 30 i think).
Psh, planets have no strength score, they are objects. They always autofail :P
-
wait.... locate city nuke
1770 miles of BOOM!
AND: fell animate. zombie apocalypse anyone?
Heh...more like Locate City Continent Breaker :D
Nukes can be continent breakers. If they're big enough.
or, hell, stones can be continent breakers if they're big enough.
or, dammit, a pebble of force thrown at very high speeds.
Could always argue that a rod of immovability destroys worlds, since it anchors to planar fabric and planets revolve around a sun...
rod of immovability aint immovable. you dont even need that much force to push them(str DC 30 i think).
Psh, planets have no strength score, they are objects. They always autofail :P
there's also a weight limit(in stronghold builder guide, i think, but it still counts).
-
If you're that determined to destroy the place, use AftS and blast the entire planet into an asteroid belt :P
-
...damnit. I had forgotten that weight limit clause.
-
If you're that determined to destroy the place, use AftS and blast the entire planet into an asteroid belt :P
you forgot twinned.
also, the interesting thing about AftS is that it also summons atropus.
-
If you're that determined to destroy the place, use AftS and blast the entire planet into an asteroid belt :P
you forgot twinned.
also, the interesting thing about AftS is that it also summons atropus.
Well, with the coverage area on this particular one, I hope he can survive in space.
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also, the interesting thing about AftS is that it also summons atropus.
(http://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/351644-Master%20Jynch/644/22/moon_display.jpg)
-
If you're that determined to destroy the place, use AftS and blast the entire planet into an asteroid belt :P
you forgot twinned.
also, the interesting thing about AftS is that it also summons atropus.
Well, with the coverage area on this particular one, I hope he can survive in space.
He's basically a moon-sized undead skull, so I'd say he can. Heck, all fights on Atropus (yes, that's on, not against) take place under no-atmosphere conditions in Elder Evils, because when he touches the surface it's already too late.
-
If you're that determined to destroy the place, use AftS and blast the entire planet into an asteroid belt :P
you forgot twinned.
also, the interesting thing about AftS is that it also summons atropus.
Well, with the coverage area on this particular one, I hope he can survive in space.
He's basically a moon-sized undead skull, so I'd say he can. Heck, all fights on Atropus (yes, that's on, not against) take playe undor no-atmosphere conditions in Elder Evils, because when he touches the surface it's alsready too late.
Omfg...what are his HD? Forget AftS, with my CL I can GATE IN UNICRON!
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He doesn't really have HD, kell, bu he has an aspect(which is what U fight)
heck, what about charm monster-ing his aspect, and by extension him?
you now have a planet sized undead skull of so pure negative energy that it can eat planets, as your buddy.
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He doesn't really have HD, kell, bu he has an aspect(which is what U fight)
heck, what about charm monster-ing his aspect, and by extension him?
you now have a planet sized undead skull of so pure negative energy that it can eat planets, as your buddy.
I have to try this in our Sunday game here...the DM is just crazy enough to let it fly until the thing descends on the planet. Then it'll be "wait...CL what? And wtf is this about Unicron?!?"
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Aspect of Atropus is the shit.
As a swift action, the
aspect of Atropus can cause all divine spellcasters and
extraplanar outsiders within a 1,000-mile radius to be-
come sickened for 1d4 hours. An affected creature must
succeed on a DC 53 Fortitude save or take 66 points of
vile damage
-
If you're that determined to destroy the place, use AftS and blast the entire planet into an asteroid belt :P
you forgot twinned.
also, the interesting thing about AftS is that it also summons atropus.
Well, with the coverage area on this particular one, I hope he can survive in space.
He's basically a moon-sized undead skull, so I'd say he can. Heck, all fights on Atropus (yes, that's on, not against) take playe undor no-atmosphere conditions in Elder Evils, because when he touches the surface it's alsready too late.
Omfg...what are his HD? Forget AftS, with my CL I can GATE IN UNICRON!
Atropus has no printed statistics.
The Aspect of Atropus that the party actually fights is described as "a small fraction of his will".
This has 66HD. So if your DM will let you control an Elder Evil that predates creation by virtue of your ability to Gate in a small fraction of his will, then by all means. (btw, per his statistics block Atropus isn't an outsider).
Incidentally, the moonlet itself presumably has conditions suitable for a living being to exist (I.E. air), and is considered a minor negative-dominant, low-gravity environment. so if you are controlling it you probably can use it to safely coast around the cosmos where you please.
On the off-chance the DM decides to invade your moonlet, make sure refer him to the encounter table in the same book:
(man tables with these forum commands suck, can't make em fancy or anything)
| d% | Encounter | Average EL | Source |
| 01–04 | 1d3 famine spirits | 21 | MM2 96 |
| 05–07 | 1 advanced deathshrieker | 19 | MM3 32 |
| 08–19 | 1 corpse gatherer | 19 | MM2 51 |
| 20–29 | 1 ragewind | 19 | MM2 173 |
| 30–47 | 1d8 angels of decay | 19 | LM 83 |
| 48–58 | 1d2 nightcrawlers | 18 | MM 195 |
| 59–75 | 1d4 nightwalkers | 18 | MM 196 |
| 76–88 | 1d6 nightwings | 17 | MM 197 |
| 89–100 | 1d12 dread wraiths | 16 | MM 258 |
Atropus certainly gets more than his fair share of attention from that book.
I agree that his encounter is certainly the coolest setting, but honestly I'd be more afraid of seeing the Worm that Walks show up in a campaign.
His block lists him with Regeneration 10. The MM1 definition says that it will be noted in the creature's entry what effects deal regular damage to him. Since he has no such notations that means he doesn't take real damage from anything, which equates roughly to Tarrasque-levels of invulnerability. This not including his ability to discorporate and vanish in 1 round as an immediate action.
-
And it's not even technically a unique monster.
There might be a problem in that it's Undead and doesn't have the Extraplanar subtype, though.
EDIT: IIRC, the moonlet explicitly has no atmosphere of its own.
-
And it's not even technically a unique monster.
There might be a problem in that it's Undead and doesn't have the Extraplanar subtype, though.
EDIT: IIRC, the moonlet explicitly has no atmosphere of its own.
Aren't all aspects outsiders by definition?
-
And it's not even technically a unique monster.
There might be a problem in that it's Undead and doesn't have the Extraplanar subtype, though.
EDIT: IIRC, the moonlet explicitly has no atmosphere of its own.
Aren't all aspects outsiders by definition?
This one isn't. It says so right in the type line.
LE Gargantuan Undead (Evil)
-
Then I go Quintesson on his ass and make an Ice Assassin out of him :P
-
And it's not even technically a unique monster.
There might be a problem in that it's Undead and doesn't have the Extraplanar subtype, though.
EDIT: IIRC, the moonlet explicitly has no atmosphere of its own.
Not explicitly...
The line you might be thinking of is right after the "Defenses" heading.
"The moonlet has few defenses. The dangers of the void are enough to keep enemies at bay. Unless the moonlet is approached when it has already entered the atmosphere—at which point it is almost too late—characters must contend with the hazardous environment."
Now in various D&D settings when they talk about the void they generally mean the space that exists between celestial bodies on the same plane, in other words outer space.
For the readers edification the book then goes into detail about what happens when you try to go into space in D&D unprotected, which are surprisingly similar to deep sea drowning (personally I wanted some Explosive Decompression in there too, but c'est la vie)
My problem is that all this is discussed under the idea of approaching the moonlet. At no point do they talk about what it's like when you are actually on the moonlet itself, except in the previous heading:
-Low-gravity
-Minor negative-dominant
-Treat the surface as rough rugged mountain terrain
On a personal note, I find the idea that you will simply die on the surface of the moon without severe magical intervention regardless of the the various negative energy crap helping you along to be incredibly stupid given the nature of the final conflict for the story.
I mean really, first the players have to come to the conclusion that going to the moonlet is even a possible option, then figure out a way to get there (teleporting is out because there's no scrying, but I guess if someone has invented the telescope you have options), then get the gusto together to actually do it, and have a chance to get into truly uncharted territory in the majority of D&D campaigns (feasible interplanetary travel), only to choke to death 3 rounds after arrival.
Oh and it also allows this:
Round 1: The nightcrawler casts greater dispel magic.
Round 2: The battle continues.
Round 3: Three quarters of the party falls unconscious after failing the DC 20 Constitution check.
How boring is that?
As far as being prepared for this goes... there's exactly 1 spell in the Spell Compendium that would let you survive in such an environment. And it's duration is measured in rounds.
Unless you count turning the party into something that doesn't have to breath.
-
Looking through it, it indeed isn't explicitly stated, but it's heavily implied, for one in the line you quoted, and then in the descriptions of the vents.
Characters who require air can breathe here, [...]
That it's specifically pointed out strongly implies that it's not the default.
Besides, this is a freaking CR 23 encounter at the end of a campaign. If the party doesn't have ways to not need air, it's their own fault. There's items for it. Can the spell you mentioned be persisted?
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If you're so keen on summon elder evils, just drop a sphere of annihilation into a well of many worlds to summon the Worm that Walks.
-
[spoiler]
Bottle of Air
This item appears to be a normal glass bottle with a cork. When taken to any airless environment it retains air within it at all times, continually renewing its contents. This means that a character can draw air out of the bottle to breathe. The bottle can even be shared by multiple characters who pass it around. Breathing out of the bottle is a standard action, but a character so doing can then act for as long as she can hold her breath.
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, water breathing; Price 7,250 gp; Weight 2 lb.
[/spoiler]
-
Bottle of Air
Oh yes, because using your standard action every other round to breath is an excellent way to kill six angels of decay. :P
-
Use a rubber hose.
Or just use the stronghold builder's guidebook to build a spaceship.
-
Bottle of Air
Oh yes, because using your standard action every other round to breath is an excellent way to kill six angels of decay. :P
Well, it's better than suffocating the moment you leave the atmosphere :P
However:
"act for as long as she can hold her breath"
"A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check in order to continue holding her breath. The save must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success."
Those are the suffocation rules, so...unless your DM rules that the rules in EE override the existing ones (which is simultaneously reasonable and silly, given that you're in space, but there are existing rules which allow you to hold your breath longer than six seconds), you should have at least twenty rounds to take actions. And if combat isn't over by then, you may be screwed.
-
If you're so keen on summon elder evils, just drop a sphere of annihilation into a well of many worlds to summon the Worm that Walks.
Kyuss is very awesome, but he doesn't come with a planet-sized undead skull of pure negative energy.
-
Check the suffocation rules again, that's Con*2 if you aren't doing anything strenuous. If you are fighting in combat, etc, it's 1/2 the duration.
Granted, if you aren't done within 10 rounds, you're still likely to be mightily screwed, but...
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If you're so keen on summon elder evils, just drop a sphere of annihilation into a well of many worlds to summon the Worm that Walks.
Technically, you need to do that in a very specific place.
Also, if you do it you create a black hole that will eventually destroy the campaign world. (In other words, do it!)
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Check the suffocation rules again, that's Con*2 if you aren't doing anything strenuous. If you are fighting in combat, etc, it's 1/2 the duration.
Granted, if you aren't done within 10 rounds, you're still likely to be mightily screwed, but...
Yeah that's great, except you also have this:
"After 3 rounds of exposure to the void, a living creature must make a successful DC 20 Constitution check or suffer excruciating pain, becoming stunned and remaining so until it returns to the atmosphere. Creatures that fail the check by 5 or more fall unconscious."
Unless you don't count being able to breath again as returning to an atmosphere... or you don't count the surface of the moonlet as void, in which case it probably has air.
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....I lose internet for one week, and people use this trick to gate in gods?
I love this forum.
-
....I lose internet for one week, and people use this trick to gate in gods?
I love this forum.
No, no, not gods. Ancient incarnations of evil that bring disaster upon the material plane just by being nearby.
-
....I lose internet for one week, and people use this trick to gate in gods?
I love this forum.
No, no, not gods. Ancient incarnations of evil that bring disaster upon the material plane just by being nearby.
AKA my soon to be mother-in-law...
-
....I lose internet for one week, and people use this trick to gate in gods?
I love this forum.
No, no, not gods. Ancient incarnations of evil that bring disaster upon the material plane just by being nearby.
AKA my soon to be mother-in-law...
Congrats on getting married :D Has your wife-to-be/husband-to-be figured out arguing with a CO-er is an exercise in futility yet? :P
EDIT : All bases covered now...I think :P
-
....I lose internet for one week, and people use this trick to gate in gods?
I love this forum.
No, no, not gods. Ancient incarnations of evil that bring disaster upon the material plane just by being nearby.
AKA my soon to be mother-in-law...
Congrats on getting married :D Has your wife figured out arguing with a CO-er is an exercise in futility yet? :P
Yes. She argues like Giacomo, though, but with more theatrics. We don't argue much for that reason.
-
....I lose internet for one week, and people use this trick to gate in gods?
I love this forum.
No, no, not gods. Ancient incarnations of evil that bring disaster upon the material plane just by being nearby.
AKA my soon to be mother-in-law...
Congrats on getting married :D Has your wife figured out arguing with a CO-er is an exercise in futility yet? :P
think ya fergot to do something.
-
On my phone, so I failpoasted.
-
....I lose internet for one week, and people use this trick to gate in gods?
I love this forum.
No, no, not gods. Ancient incarnations of evil that bring disaster upon the material plane just by being nearby.
AKA my soon to be mother-in-law...
Congrats on getting married :D Has your wife figured out arguing with a CO-er is an exercise in futility yet? :P
Yes. She argues like Giacomo, though, but with more theatrics. We don't argue much for that reason.
:lmao MORE animated than Giacomo...she must be Italian (not an insult, just a cultural observation from having dated a Greek Romanian who was also fluent in Italian and spoke in a similar manner...omg the temper, coming from me even lol).
-
....I lose internet for one week, and people use this trick to gate in gods?
I love this forum.
No, no, not gods. Ancient incarnations of evil that bring disaster upon the material plane just by being nearby.
AKA my soon to be mother-in-law...
Congrats on getting married :D Has your wife figured out arguing with a CO-er is an exercise in futility yet? :P
Yes. She argues like Giacomo, though, but with more theatrics. We don't argue much for that reason.
:lmao MORE animated than Giacomo...she must be Italian (not an insult, just a cultural observation from having dated a Greek Romanian who was also fluent in Italian and spoke in a similar manner...omg the temper, coming from me even lol).
I prefer the ancient viking method of solving arguments. assuming logic doesn't work, both sides get plastered and start beating the crap out of eathother until no-one can remember what we were arguing about. tends to work. if the argument is later recalled, or brought up again, the one who won the fight was right.
-
....I lose internet for one week, and people use this trick to gate in gods?
I love this forum.
No, no, not gods. Ancient incarnations of evil that bring disaster upon the material plane just by being nearby.
AKA my soon to be mother-in-law...
Congrats on getting married :D Has your wife figured out arguing with a CO-er is an exercise in futility yet? :P
Yes. She argues like Giacomo, though, but with more theatrics. We don't argue much for that reason.
:lmao MORE animated than Giacomo...she must be Italian (not an insult, just a cultural observation from having dated a Greek Romanian who was also fluent in Italian and spoke in a similar manner...omg the temper, coming from me even lol).
I prefer the ancient viking method of solving arguments. assuming logic doesn't work, both sides get plastered and start beating the crap out of eathother until no-one can remember what we were arguing about. tends to work. if the argument is later recalled, or brought up again, the one who won the fight was right.
I'd win, either way :P
No romanian, but plenty of german, irish, and native american.
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Bought off Hatchling Phaerimm (LEoF)
Spellthief 1/Bard 1/Wizard 3/Knight of the Weave 1/Shadowcraft Mage 3/Sublime Chord 1/Ultimate Magus 10
CL 248 naked. Without Bloodlines.
Knight of the Weave and Sublime Chord both effectively double CL and add 10.
CL will drop to 239 if you take away an UM level and replace it with Tainted Scholar.
Bloodlines effectily just add 3 to every class, right? Assuming I understand them correctly the CL should be 305. Dropping one UM level for Tainted leaves you at 286.
EDIT: Ignoring the free 20CL that Phaerimm grants, with bloodlines this build still beats the most recent one while still picking up SCM and Taint. With CL 188.
-
I'm still waiting to see a non-infinite loop that can grant 720 CL so that 1 minute/level spells can be extended to last 24 hours.
-
I'm still waiting to see a non-infinite loop that can grant 720 CL so that 1 minute/level spells can be extended to last 24 hours.
Get a very high caster level Power Leech (Book of Vile Darkness) and cast it on someone, draining their Constitution while increasing yours. Repeatedly cast Restoration or something to restore their Constitution so you can get your full (let's say 200ish) caster level added to your Constitution score. Then use Suffer the Flesh (and Reserves of Strength to uncap it), adding (your constitution score minus one)/2 to your caster level. That gets us to 300ish, and a Greater Consumptive Field can get us to 450ish, assuming you aren't repeating anything to get infinite loops. Hm, not quite enough.
-
Let me get a Mind Mage with Psiotheurgy going on SCM, and we'll see where that goes. Without even trying we got damn near 500 on the Mind Mage thread.
-
isn't master spellthief fun? :lmao
especially with ultimate magus.
excellent work on cranking up the caster level even higher! it's just getting silly at this point. we passed 1-shotting the twice betrayer pages ago. what else can we put this absurd caster level to use with? damage doesn't really count any more, as a wings of flurry will one-shot must things at CL200, even if they make the save.
is there anything our reserves of strength'ed cloud of knives cannot hit? seriously, just use UM to persist a bunch of them at the start of the day, and blast all you want. +150(+casting mod) 1d6+50 damage knives fired as free actions really mess up opponents. persist 3-5 castings, and shit gets real.
....wait a minute, did we just make a caster that out damages an ubercharger all day long? without the drawbacks?
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Are you claiming that you can have multiple Cloud of Knives casted and they all be able to attack? I'm almost sure there's something denying that in the PHB
-
Are you claiming that you can have multiple Cloud of Knives casted and they all be able to attack? I'm almost sure there's something denying that in the PHB
once cast, cloud of knives lets you attack with a knife as a free action. and this spell was printed in the same book that brought us celerity. if you have five of them cast, what's to prevent you from using five free actions in one turn to use them all?
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Are you claiming that you can have multiple Cloud of Knives casted and they all be able to attack? I'm almost sure there's something denying that in the PHB
once cast, cloud of knives lets you attack with a knife as a free action. and this spell was printed in the same book that brought us celerity. if you have five of them cast, what's to prevent you from using five free actions in one turn to use them all?
Debatably the stacking rules.
-
Are you claiming that you can have multiple Cloud of Knives casted and they all be able to attack? I'm almost sure there's something denying that in the PHB
once cast, cloud of knives lets you attack with a knife as a free action. and this spell was printed in the same book that brought us celerity. if you have five of them cast, what's to prevent you from using five free actions in one turn to use them all?
Debatably the stacking rules.
Assuming they all don't just trigger at once automatically, as they are the same spell.
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Okay, I think this works. I know this build spits in the face of fluff, but hell, this is TO hardcore at this point... Prestige classes might need rearranged, but I'm almost positive this all works. This also assumes you have some divine <=> arcane tech.
Hatchling Paerimm
Spellthief 1/ Bard 1/ Ardent 1/ Wizard 1/ Knight of the Weave 1/ Ur Priest 1/ Shadowcraft Mage 3/ Nar Demonbinder 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Ultimate Magus 7/ Tainted Scholar 1
Gets 9s with Sublime Chord. Is Tainted. With bloodlines, before items, CL 787.
Magic Mantle is stupid transparency means ML=CL right? Take that one feat we talked about in my Mind Mage thread, and now your Illusion CL 1574. Bill Bisco, your wish is my command.
In this build, +1 CL equates to +71CL. ((((4+1)*2)+1)*2)+1)*2)+1)*1.5)+1)
Assuming the best possible inturprutation of Greater Comsumptive Field(that it's *1.5 each caster level, then you hit ~8000. If you get items for +2 from items you hit 9091. :lmao
How To:
[spoiler]1. Take a Spellthief level and take Master Spellthief.
2. Take levels in prestige classes that grant spellcasting who have special CL rules (KotW, NarD, and SC are great because it's full addition, UrP (1/2))
3. Get 9s.[/spoiler]
Hatchling Paerimm
Spellthief 1/ Bard 1/ Ardent 1/ Wizard 1/ Knight of the Weave 1/ Ur Priest 1/ Shadowcraft Mage 3/ Nar Demonbinder 1/ Sublime Chord 1/ Ultimate Magus 7/ PrC Paladin 1/Tainted Scholar 1
This hits CL 1262. On illusion spells you hit 2524. Naked. Formula for adding a single caster level is (((((4+1)*2)+1)*2)+1)*2)+1)*2)+1)*1.5)+1)=+143. Greater Consumptive Field puts it in the 8000s.
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Sexy. I'll see if I can do better, but right now, your first correction is Illusion, since Shadow Miracle emulates everything else.
Also, if you can afford to lose 1 level of SC, tack on PrC Pally with MFK ACF to double CL + 2 :)
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Sexy. I'll see if I can do better, but right now, your first correction is Illusion, since Shadow Miracle emulates everything else.
Also, if you can afford to lose 1 level of SC, tack on PrC Pally with MFK ACF to double CL + 2 :)
Haha, I fixed it to Illusion at the same time you posted.
And MFK paladin is great and all but it's hard to justify taking ACFs with the PrC adaptation. Otherwise you basically double CL, yep.
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Sexy. I'll see if I can do better, but right now, your first correction is Illusion, since Shadow Miracle emulates everything else.
Also, if you can afford to lose 1 level of SC, tack on PrC Pally with MFK ACF to double CL + 2 :)
Haha, I fixed it to Illusion at the same time you posted.
And MFK paladin is great and all but it's hard to justify taking ACFs with the PrC adaptation. Otherwise you basically double CL, yep.
Hey, you suggested it initially :P
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I suggested it as Paladin 4 thank you very much. :P
But yes, dropping one Sublime Chord level will still get you 9s. And picking up MFK paladin will give you CL 1262. Before you double it.
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I suggested it as Paladin 4 thank you very much. :P
But yes, dropping one Sublime Chord level will still get you 9s. And picking up MFK paladin will give you CL 1262. Before you double it.
At this point who needs an explosive AftS...your radius will sink continents anyway :P
EDIT : Scratch that...25,240 miles even on a Locate City bomb = bye bye world. That's greater than the diameter of the earth IIRC.
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I suggested it as Paladin 4 thank you very much. :P
But yes, dropping one Sublime Chord level will still get you 9s. And picking up MFK paladin will give you CL 1262. Before you double it.
At this point who needs an explosive AftS...your radius will sink continents anyway :P
EDIT : Scratch that...25,240 miles even on a Locate City bomb = bye bye world. That's greater than the diameter of the earth IIRC.
it is.
1262 rounds is approximately two hours on rounds/level spells. Hell YEAH!
persistent twinned intensified maw of chaos = 22716 damage per round, for 24 hours. use explosive grease/wall of stone/blade barrier/wall of force/all combined to keep people in. don't forget to make the whole deal invisible.
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I say we compare the range of a magic missile at this caster level to the height of the atmosphere.
we magic missile the darkness. :lol
also, a reserves of strength'ed magic missile would fire 1264 missiles, assuming we shadowcrafted it. holy shit, we outdamage an ubercharger with a freaking magic missile!
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Macross Missile Massacre ensues.
Wait, where are you getting so many missiles from? Doesn't MM specify a cap?
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Macross Missile Massacre ensues.
Wait, where are you getting so many missiles from? Doesn't MM specify a cap?
Reserves of Strength to bust the cap.
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Hatchling Paerimm
Spellthief 1/ Bard 1/ Ardent 1/ Wizard 1/ Knight of the Weave 1/ Ur Priest 1/ Shadowcraft Mage 3/ Nar Demonbinder 1/ Sublime Chord 1/ Ultimate Magus 7/ PrC Paladin 1/Tainted Scholar 1
Greater Consumptive Field (*1.5)
Arcane Thesis (Silent Image) (+2)
Magic Tattoo (+1)
Ioun Stone (+1)
Tainted Scholar Blood Component (+1)
Spellgifted (Illusion) (+1)
Reserves of Strength (+3)
Psychwhatchamacallit (*2 +1)
Robe of Arcane Might (+1)
Ring of Arcane Might (+1)
Nugget of Garl Glittergold (+1) [thanks TML]
ACF from Dragon Magazine (+1) [thanks whoever said this]
[spoiler]This assumes you awlays go full RoS and Blood Component. This also assumes that GCM works as *1.5 for each caster level.[/spoiler]
=Caster Level 37803
Phantom Steed moves at 756064ft Movement Speed. While running this is 504043ft/s 343 665 mph That's Mach 491. You can beat the Earth in a race around the sun. And lap her 5 times.
Hunter's Eye grants 12601d6 sneak attack. What's the record again?
Aligid Enhancement grants +12601 AC and Attack. and 1d8+12601 temp HP.
You may Shapechange into any printed Creature ever.
+1 Defending/+1 XXXXX Quaterstaff with 2x Checkmate's Light gives 12601 to AC and saves. (XXX is the defending equivalent of saves, it exists I'm just to lazy to find it)
Magic Missile fires 18900 missiles.
Animate 1181 Colossal objects in a single casting.
Shatter 378030lbs in a single casting. That's 190 tons. that's three tanks.
37803 cubic feet of True Creation.
Hold 3780300lbs on a Tenser's Floating Disk.
You are an F-22.
Spell Progression
[spoiler]Spellthief 1
Bard 1
Ardent 1
Wizard 1
KotW 1
Ur Priest 1 + SCM 3 + 4 UM +1 PrC Pal = 9th Ur Priest
NarD 1
Sublime 1 + UM 7 + 1 Tainted Scholar = 9th Sublime Chord
Due to the list above and UM's +3, and Bloodlines +3, each casting class enjoys a +18 to caster level.[/spoiler]
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Can you somehow steal Checkmate's Light from the Cleric list? That scales better than GMW (+1/3 CL instead of +1/4). It only lasts rounds/level... but I don't think that matters much at this CL. :P
EDIT: You have PrC Paladin, so you could get it as a 2nd level spell from there, I suppose.
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Can you somehow steal Checkmate's Light from the Cleric list?
9th level SC and 9th level Ur Priest. So yes.
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...wait, cleric spells?
well shit, we just removed the negative energy plane with a reserves of strength'ed cure light wounds.
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...wait, cleric spells?
well shit, we just removed the negative energy plane with a reserves of strength'ed cure light wounds.
That's OK, we've already removed mechanus with a reserves of strength'ed telekinesis
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...wait, cleric spells?
well shit, we just removed the negative energy plane with a reserves of strength'ed cure light wounds.
And while we're at it, the Positive Energy Plane too.
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Isn't there some sort of holy symbol which gives +1 cl to illusion only?
And you might as well throw in liquid pain as a material component.
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our long range spells have a range of 1 269 840 ft, or roughly 1/1000th of the distance from the earth to the moon.
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our long range spells have a range of 1 269 840 ft, or roughly 1/1000th of the distance from the earth to the moon.
The average distance from Earth to Moon is 384403 km (238857 miles).
We can fly there in one round.
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our long range spells have a range of 1 269 840 ft, or roughly 1/1000th of the distance from the earth to the moon.
The average distance from Earth to Moon is 384403 km (238857 miles).
We can fly there in one round.
...holy shit our caster can colonize pluto. just chuck an incendiary cloud at it...
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Now is probably a not a good time to mention this, but i think i accidentally dispelled The Iron Tower. :embarrassed
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Isn't there some sort of holy symbol which gives +1 cl to illusion only?
School mastery does, it is a ACF from Dragon 357 that gives +1 CL for one school of magic and some odd bonus (for illusion it is +10% shadow reality) in exchange for your familiar.
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Isn't there some sort of holy symbol which gives +1 cl to illusion only?
School mastery does, it is a ACF from Dragon 357 that gives +1 CL for one school of magic and some odd bonus (for illusion it is +10% shadow reality) in exchange for your familiar.
+10% shadow reality in exchange for my familiar? :twitch. and +1 CL...
Thats dead good.
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Isn't there some sort of holy symbol which gives +1 cl to illusion only?
School mastery does, it is a ACF from Dragon 357 that gives +1 CL for one school of magic and some odd bonus (for illusion it is +10% shadow reality) in exchange for your familiar.
+10% shadow reality in exchange for my familiar? :twitch. and +1 CL...
Thats dead good.
Finding out about this made me break out the retraining rules for my current Shadowcraft Mage. Chains of disbelief is nothing compared to this ACF.
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I'll add that ACF in when I get back to my other computer with the Excel sheet for figuring CL on it.
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This insane caster level also works well with instantaneous creation effects, like wall of stone. You can create 641927838 ft^3 of stone with a single casting. That is enough to create a cube 862 ft on each side. Fabricate is also silly in terms of how much you can make with it 351070 cubic feet what takes 58 and a half hours to cast.
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Now is probably a not a good time to mention this, but i think i accidentally dispelled The Iron Tower. :embarrassed
please tell me this works.
we killed the twice betrayer. now, it is dispater's turn to die! :devil
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Who wants to help check my math?
Current non-infinite CL record? (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tMSRsY-QTWW6xQ38GnmorAA&single=true&gid=0&output=html)
Unbuffed and naked: 3003
Unbuffed and naked Illusion spells: 7897
Buffed and naked: 12833
Buffed and naked Illusion spells: 34763
Buffed and clothed: 16623
Buffed and clothes Illusion spells: 43859
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make sure you check the exact wording on your additional CL boosters. the trick is making sure the CL boost is applied before master spellthief.
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make sure you check the exact wording on your additional CL boosters. the trick is making sure the CL boost is applied before master spellthief.
"+1 caster level on Illusion spells" increases each class's ability to cast illusion spells by one. Then it gets super math'd. My reading of GCF is admittedly shaky, but I think the rest of the bonuses should all apply to each class individually.
So, question, what can kill it? I guess anyone who has a higher caster level would just Disjunction. And any character with approaching infinity/infinity damage with an Attack of +15000 minimum.
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Well, when all you have is a hammer...
Ring of telekinesis + factotum +MotUH abuse. You can get, what, fifteen standard actions first round? The odds of not rolling a natural 20 on any of your 9+5=14 item sorties is pretty negligible. The expected value is for 10.5 20s. If they're covered in poison, the odds are just under 1 in 2 that a natural 1 will be rolled.
Of course, if we replace two normal standard actions with one action drawing and one action reading a scroll of chained telekinesis, numbers get much better. That's an improvement of 42 attacks per standard action. Expected value of 15.4 natural 20s. Which is slightly better than even odds of the opponent getting a natural 1.
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Well, when all you have is a hammer...
Ring of telekinesis + factotum +MotUH abuse. You can get, what, fifteen standard actions first round? The odds of not rolling a natural 20 on any of your 9+5=14 item sorties is pretty negligible. The expected value is for 10.5 20s. If they're covered in poison, the odds are just under 1 in 2 that a natural 1 will be rolled.
Of course, if we replace two normal standard actions with one action drawing and one action reading a scroll of chained telekinesis, numbers get much better. That's an improvement of 42 attacks per standard action. Expected value of 15.4 natural 20s. Which is slightly better than even odds of the opponent getting a natural 1.
Good point. Natural 1s are a huge hole in the build. He has room for the Pride Domain in there somewhere I bet...
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can't we just have our caster level monster cast a reserves of strength'ed TK? all of a sudden, A REAL METEOR SWARM!
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And, of course, knowledge affiliation shuts you down hard, since you're a one-trick pony. That one-trick is spellcasting, but it's still just one trick.
Also, I don't interpret reserves of strength as letting a CL19 wizard using it create a 20 die fireball.
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And, of course, knowledge affiliation shuts you down hard, since you're a one-trick pony. That one-trick is spellcasting, but it's still just one trick.
Also, I don't interpret reserves of strength as letting a CL19 wizard using it create a 20 die fireball.
Yeah. Well, defeating the build by interpreting things differently is cheating. ;) And regardless, breaking caps with RoS is only a small fraction of the power. There are plenty enough spells without a cap.
Does Knowledge Affiliation shut down buffs currently in place? Anyways, his saves are in the 10000s. And assume Pride Domain to avoid those ones.
AMFs are defeated by Invoke Magic, Disjunction and a Contingency.
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And, of course, knowledge affiliation shuts you down hard, since you're a one-trick pony. That one-trick is spellcasting, but it's still just one trick.
Also, I don't interpret reserves of strength as letting a CL19 wizard using it create a 20 die fireball.
Actually given that he'd have it as well, I'd key the primary contingency to this. Invoke Magic/Cone Hat/Spell Phylactery can get rid of any AMF threat, with of course MDJ available to own it if need be (though who's going to be stopping an Orb spell at this point?).
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Well, I suppose the other way to avoid it is make all of those into +1 vorpal arrows. Instead of forcing you to roll a one, they just have to roll a double 20.
Yeah, it's extremely expensive. But they're affordable in a wish economy.
To avoid the whole "vorpal can only be applied to slashing weapons" thing: either use the modified arrow that does slashing damage, or argue they deal slashing damage when used in melee.
Since we're using abusable interpretations, sleight of hand + iaijutsu focus adds 9d6 damage to anything that hits (not that it matters, since you're probably immune to damage).
Oh, and apparently I'm on crack, since I believe the first round of concentration is covered by casting the spell. So double whatever silly number I had there before.
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oh fuck...
improvisation. gain a pool equal to 2x caster level, use up to 1/4 of it on any one skill check.
how many records just got broken?
came across this whilst considering using this kind of build in the test of spite, and realized I could hit the bluff-suggestion point with improv and glibness.
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Now is probably a not a good time to mention this, but i think i accidentally dispelled The Iron Tower. :embarrassed
please tell me this works.
we killed the twice betrayer. now, it is dispater's turn to die! :devil
if we're using dicefreaks rules, cosmic effects(which is what the Iron Tower is) can only be removed by Gods/Cosmic entities. so no, sadly.
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Now is probably a not a good time to mention this, but i think i accidentally dispelled The Iron Tower. :embarrassed
please tell me this works.
we killed the twice betrayer. now, it is dispater's turn to die! :devil
if we're using dicefreaks rules, cosmic effects(which is what the Iron Tower is) can only be removed by Gods/Cosmic entities. so no, sadly.
improvisation.
4 uses from one casting.
first: perform check worthy of the gods.
second: diplomacy the gods into our bitches. take divine ranks.
third and fourth: perform(electric guitar) and rock out even harder than before. or hell, perform(one man band) up mozart's ninth. afterwords, THEN go kick dispater's ass.
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why not just use ice assassin and get it over with?
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why not just use ice assassin and get it over with?
because not even dispater can kill dispater in the iron tower.
yeah, the fucker is arbitrarily hard to kill. for instance, to damage him when he is under the iron curtain, he gets to make a DC60+(your con) save to avoid all damage.
in addition, all psionics other than his own do not function inside the tower. his ice assassin doesn't stand a chance of killing him.
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i was talking about ice assassining the gods....
and then make our army of NI overdeities charge dispater's towern en masse, while having NI constantly trying to dispel his defenses.
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why not just use ice assassin and get it over with?
because not even dispater can kill dispater in the iron tower.
yeah, the fucker is arbitrarily hard to kill. for instance, to damage him when he is under the iron curtain, he gets to make a DC60+(your con) save to avoid all damage.
in addition, all psionics other than his own do not function inside the tower. his ice assassin doesn't stand a chance of killing him.
That's why I've been pimping knowledge affiliation so hard.
"The power to know a thing is the power to destroy it".
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i was talking about ice assassining the gods....
and then make our army of NI overdeities charge dispater's towern en masse, while having NI constantly trying to dispel his defenses.
Since he's seemingly easily pimp-slapped level 70 greater deities with divine rank 18 repeatedly in the Iron Siege, I don't think this would be as easy as you think. ;) Also, I think the only overdeities in the dicefreaks cosmology are beings like Asmodeus and a couple of others. Pun-Pun and infinite loops were specifically excluded from the challenge, as was anything "too cheesy" (which begs the question... what the fuck does that even mean, when you're talking about DR 18 gods challenging the Dicefreaks Dispater?).
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it's a metric fuckton of paperwork, but does anyone want to make a version of this that can beat the iron siege?
the hard part will be namely advancing the build to 70 hit dice (what sort of caster level will we have by then?).
if anyone decides to do it, don't forget to abuse epic ultimate magus for all it's worth. tshern will have to either rule that it is a double full progression caster PrC in epic, or that it has the "+1 CL to all classes" per four levels bit.
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it's a metric fuckton of paperwork, but does anyone want to make a version of this that can beat the iron siege?
the hard part will be namely advancing the build to 70 hit dice (what sort of caster level will we have by then?).
if anyone decides to do it, don't forget to abuse epic ultimate magus for all it's worth. tshern will have to either rule that it is a double full progression caster PrC in epic, or that it has the "+1 CL to all classes" per four levels bit.
Make the base a sharn, of course.
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i was talking about ice assassining the gods....
and then make our army of NI overdeities charge dispater's towern en masse, while having NI constantly trying to dispel his defenses.
Since he's seemingly easily pimp-slapped level 70 greater deities with divine rank 18 repeatedly in the Iron Siege, I don't think this would be as easy as you think. ;) Also, I think the only overdeities in the dicefreaks cosmology are beings like Asmodeus and a couple of others. Pun-Pun and infinite loops were specifically excluded from the challenge, as was anything "too cheesy" (which begs the question... what the fuck does that even mean, when you're talking about DR 18 gods challenging the Dicefreaks Dispater?).
he's repeatedly pimp-slapped one level 70 greater deity. I'd like to see how he'll fare against NI. one of them WILL succeed on the opposed roll to dispel the tower.
also, anklebite just pulled diplomancy. we're well beyond too cheesy.
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i was talking about ice assassining the gods....
and then make our army of NI overdeities charge dispater's towern en masse, while having NI constantly trying to dispel his defenses.
Since he's seemingly easily pimp-slapped level 70 greater deities with divine rank 18 repeatedly in the Iron Siege, I don't think this would be as easy as you think. ;) Also, I think the only overdeities in the dicefreaks cosmology are beings like Asmodeus and a couple of others. Pun-Pun and infinite loops were specifically excluded from the challenge, as was anything "too cheesy" (which begs the question... what the fuck does that even mean, when you're talking about DR 18 gods challenging the Dicefreaks Dispater?).
he's repeatedly pimp-slapped one level 70 greater deity. I'd like to see how he'll fare against NI. one of them WILL succeed on the opposed roll to dispel the tower.
also, anklebite just pulled diplomancy. we're well beyond too cheesy.
actually, we could just use the "instill suggestion" part of bluff. make a DC several thousand sense motive check.
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it's a metric fuckton of paperwork, but does anyone want to make a version of this that can beat the iron siege?
the hard part will be namely advancing the build to 70 hit dice (what sort of caster level will we have by then?).
if anyone decides to do it, don't forget to abuse epic ultimate magus for all it's worth. tshern will have to either rule that it is a double full progression caster PrC in epic, or that it has the "+1 CL to all classes" per four levels bit.
Actually IIRC, Dicefreak rules are that all theurge classes get full progression on both sides in epic. So they'd get both full progression and +1/4 levels, and a bonus metamagic feat every 4 levels (as the pattern was 5th~>9th).
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Someone pointed out in another thread how Ur Priest and SC and even NarD add to Spellcasting class level, not caster level. This significantly decreases the caster level. Down to 7500 buffed Illusions.
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Which despite being a massive drop from the previous 35000 or so is still a caster level of 7500 where the average is 20.
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Hatchling Paerimm
Spellthief 1/ Bard 1/ Ardent 1/ Wizard 1/ Knight of the Weave 1/ Ur Priest 1/ Shadowcraft Mage 3/ Nar Demonbinder 1/ Sublime Chord 1/ Ultimate Magus 7/ PrC Paladin 1/Tainted Scholar 1
Greater Consumptive Field (*1.5)
Arcane Thesis (Silent Image) (+2)
Magic Tattoo (+1)
Ioun Stone (+1)
Tainted Scholar Blood Component (+1)
Spellgifted (Illusion) (+1)
Reserves of Strength (+3)
Psychwhatchamacallit (*2 +1)
Robe of Arcane Might (+1)
Ring of Arcane Might (+1)
Nugget of Garl Glittergold (+1) [thanks TML]
ACF from Dragon Magazine (+1) [thanks whoever said this]
Wow, that means the Ardent's ML would be 37803 (or 7500 if the Ur/ NarD/ SC is illegal) as well right?
Would using an illumian base, then getting PAO'd into a Hatchling Paerimm boost it further?
Does the arcane adaptation of swordsage give CLs?
If not, since masterspell thief says:
"Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells."
Do classes that casts arcane spells but do not have a CL get a CL now? (eg swordsage, illithid savant that gains spellcasting)
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Someone pointed out in another thread how Ur Priest and SC and even NarD add to Spellcasting class level, not caster level. This significantly decreases the caster level. Down to 7500 buffed Illusions.
Can you give a link to the thread please? I keep getting confused regarding CLs.
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I've been a good boy and deliberately left off the Arcane Swordsage from my builds posted...were I to use it, even a three digit CL with at will and infinite spells known would be SICK.
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I've been a good boy and deliberately left off the Arcane Swordsage from my builds posted...were I to use it, even a three digit CL with at will and infinite spells known would be SICK.
Who are you and what did you do to the real Kell? :P
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I've been a good boy and deliberately left off the Arcane Swordsage from my builds posted...were I to use it, even a three digit CL with at will and infinite spells known would be SICK.
Actually, not entirely at will, coz I don't think swordsages can initiate a maneuver outside combat, or can he?
Also, why infinite spells known? I'm not talking about IL=CL, so list of maneuvers(or spells) known is still restricted to IL level, not dictated by CLs. Or am I wrong here?
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I've been a good boy and deliberately left off the Arcane Swordsage from my builds posted...were I to use it, even a three digit CL with at will and infinite spells known would be SICK.
Who are you and what did you do to the real Kell? :P
Getting close to dawn...you know how approaching sunlight fucks with us were-types when the moon is going down :P
I've been a good boy and deliberately left off the Arcane Swordsage from my builds posted...were I to use it, even a three digit CL with at will and infinite spells known would be SICK.
Actually, not entirely at will, coz I don't think swordsages can initiate a maneuver outside combat, or can he?
Also, why infinite spells known? I'm not talking about IL=CL, so list of maneuvers(or spells) known is still restricted to IL level, not dictated by CLs. Or am I wrong here?
Sure they can. A stance is a maneuver and you can enter a stance whenever the hell you feel like. And infinite spells known because we've got access to a Tome of Ancient Lore, and learn all our spells from that. Hell, make a psionic adaptation (or get the Magic mantle) and it's a moot point anyway. Talk about a recharge mechanism...
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There's actually a section in the ToB somewhere, discussing that DMs should limit a maneuver's use to once per five minutes (or maybe it's one minute?) if it is used outside of combat, for balance purposes.
Edit: That was supposed to be in reference to the "Swordsages can use maneuvers outside combat?" portion above.
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Alright yall. I slogged through all 14 pages of this. About reserves of strength, I'm with TML on this one. RAI its clearly supposed to only exceed normal CL caps by 3, not completely uncap the spell and add a measly +3cl to your existing one. Beware cheesy interpretations, though RAW I will concede its ambiguous.
Also, if we use the bloodlines as they were intended (i.e. as described in PBMC's handbook), we still get 20 levels to work with
:D
My guess would be that because it's "look at the table" and the table stops at 20, so does the progression. You can't get Epic things until you are epic, even if you qualify.
Unless it has a formula somewhere that is hopefully consistent between epic and non-epic (meaning you really don't need to use the epic ruling)
this had better not actually work. seriously, that's eff'ed up.
No worries. I still hold the world record eldritch blast at 42d6+14d6
asdfjkl is right about the eldritch blast (which is an SLA) and the other SLAs not gaining the CL boost. Neither are spells :(
the XP to buy bloodline levels is 3,000+6,000+12,000. Incidentally, exactly the amount of XP gained by investing XP in an Item Familiar. Coincidence?
Man, I love you right now. I'm adding that to the handbook :love (the information is already in there but I just love the way you put it)
Sane DMs are the stuff of freakin' legend.
I'm definately not. I'm way off my rocker
yeah, I can't image an unbuffed caster with no magic items (cause we MDJ'ed his ass) surviving 141d6 of anything.
I've got one like that. In fact, the MDJ could get that juicy 1% to strip you of all casting period and this guy would just laugh and say 'is that all ya got?' Granted he is a mildly TO BBEG. See? I really am nuts
optimizing tea is like optimizing kobolds: at first, "what the crap is this? I can't use this shit! it doesn't work well at all!". after one begins to truely understand it, however.... you find yourself hard pressed not to automatically include it in everything.
:lmao
The Aspect of Atropus that the party actually fights is described as "a small fraction of his will".This has 66HD.
I'd still be able command him (unless he is immune to turning) :lol
I prefer the ancient viking method of solving arguments. assuming logic doesn't work, both sides get plastered and start beating the crap out of eathother until no-one can remember what we were arguing about. tends to work. if the argument is later recalled, or brought up again, the one who won the fight was right.
May I suggest this is NOT a good way to mediate a marriage?? Arguing with women is a lot different...
wait a minute, did we just make a caster that out damages an ubercharger all day long? without the drawbacks?
Not mine :p but this was with the pre-thousands CLs... :bigeye
Hunter's Eye grants 12601d6 sneak attack. What's the record again?
I hold it for non-casters (53d6+20). You did break the caster-allowed record though
improvisation. gain a pool equal to 2x caster level, use up to 1/4 of it on any one skill check.how many records just got broken?
All the skill check ones, I think
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Glad to help the cause PBMC, and truth be told, that handbook blew open a million and one doors for evil and wicked character designs (along with the usual War Weaver and Wizard handbooks), and of course this little thread of debauchery :D
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we really should double check the RAW on these higher end abuses. would suck if it didn't work.
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I've posted the link to my CL math. And rechecked it after learning that SC among other is Spellcaster level not caster level. Drops it to 7500.
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I need help with the math, and potentially a build. I've got 40 class levels to play with. :smirk I initially figured I'd go triple threat (Binder/Ur-Priest/SC/Ultimate Magus) but I figure it's worth more to progress UM into the Epic Levels (especially since Ur-Priest uses Arcane CL to determine its own CL).
I want to keep the build relatively simple, so I'd rather use simple early entry methods for as much mayhem as possible (and whoring out on Epic Feats bonus progression, of course - looking at Improved Metamagic taken several times for high-level metamagic whoring, even though Epic Spellcasting is available there. ;)
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human bard1/wizard3/spellthief1/trapsmith1/ur-priest1/mindbender1/UM2/SC1/UM+8/X1/MT9/epic UM11
required feats: able learner, master spellthief, prereqs.
"X" is an arcane spellcasting class to wrack up the CL.
make sure to use UM to constantly boost SC. SC determines your CL in the end. as for "X", I would take sorcerer. that way, you can you the spare UM +caster levels to boost wizard and sorcerer to max, making you a true arcane powerhouse of death.
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human bard1/wizard3/spellthief1/trapsmith1/ur-priest1/mindbender1/UM2/SC1/UM+8/X1/MT9/epic UM11
required feats: able learner, master spellthief, prereqs.
my head hurts now
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human bard1/wizard3/spellthief1/trapsmith1/ur-priest1/mindbender1/UM2/SC1/UM+8/X1/MT9/epic UM11
required feats: able learner, master spellthief, prereqs.
my head hurts now
hehe, why? :D
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human bard1/wizard3/spellthief1/trapsmith1/ur-priest1/mindbender1/UM2/SC1/UM+8/X1/MT9/epic UM11
required feats: able learner, master spellthief, prereqs.
"X" is an arcane spellcasting class to wrack up the CL.
make sure to use UM to constantly boost SC. SC determines your CL in the end. as for "X", I would take sorcerer. that way, you can you the spare UM +caster levels to boost wizard and sorcerer to max, making you a true arcane powerhouse of death.
Okay, quick questions:
1) Why trapsmith, specifically?
2) Since UP CL is based off the sum of arcane CL, why MT?
I forgot to mention this DM is allowing the Book of Ultimate Feats. It contains Lasting Spell, which makes Persistent Spell look like Combat Casting's lame, dead brother.
By pumping up your spell slot consumption 9 levels, you can make a round/level spell last X centuries, where X is your CL.
Now add metamagic reducers. Specifically, Improved Metamagic, taken, I dunno, 9 times.
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With this kind of CL you are never dispelled. Only need to be able to metamagic 1/day and eventually you'll have every spell you ever want on you.
Also remember, with a CL of 8640 turns 10min/level into 24 hours.
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With this kind of CL you are never dispelled. Only need to be able to metamagic 1/day and eventually you'll have every spell you ever want on you.
Also remember, with a CL of 8640 turns 10min/level into 24 hours.
With Lasting Spell and enough Meta reducers, I turn rounds/level into centuries.
Dispelling isn't the main issue, getting around MDJ and potentially AMF is. At these levels, MDJ is the FREAKING COMBAT OPENER.
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trapsmith because I felt like it, and you can meet the prereqs. also, because I like the spell list. really, you can replace it with any arcane casting class, as long as you have one prepared and one spontaneous caster before you go into UM.
MT is, because, otherwise you will have the Ur-priest casting of a level1 ur-priest.
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Dispelling isn't the main issue, getting around MDJ and potentially AMF is. At these levels, MDJ is the FREAKING COMBAT OPENER.
Carry around one of the crappier minor artifacts. Nobody's willing to risk losing spellcasting.
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trapsmith because I felt like it, and you can meet the prereqs. also, because I like the spell list. really, you can replace it with any arcane casting class, as long as you have one prepared and one spontaneous caster before you go into UM.
MT is, because, otherwise you will have the Ur-priest casting of a level1 ur-priest.
Oh, right. I forgot you have to ACTUALLY PROGRESS UP before you get access to the good stuff. :lmao
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I hope I don't come off as too un-learned in D&D but how are we breaking the cap of +3 that Reserves of Strength limits you to do?
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I hope I don't come off as too un-learned in D&D but how are we breaking the cap of +3 that Reserves of Strength limits you to do?
RaW, it doesn't raise the cap by 3, it removes it entirely. RaI, it was probably meant to only increase it by 3, not remove the cap entirely. It has to do with the different sentences the relevant parts of the feat are located in, without being specifically intrinsically linked together.
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I hope I don't come off as too un-learned in D&D but how are we breaking the cap of +3 that Reserves of Strength limits you to do?
RaW, it doesn't raise the cap by 3, it removes it entirely. RaI, it was probably meant to only increase it by 3, not remove the cap entirely. It has to do with the different sentences the relevant parts of the feat are located in, without being specifically intrinsically linked together.
I seem to see what you are talking about. So my next question is: Say you use Reserves of Strength to raise the caster cap by... for example, 10. Are you then stunned for 10 rounds?
Edit: Just to confirm, the Reserves of Strength I'm looking at is in the Dragon Lance Campaign setting book.
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from my reading it is that you raise your caster level and are stunned for that many rounds. That increase is limited to up to +3. However when using the feat it removes the cap on the spell entirely.
12th level wizard casts fireball: it deals 10d6
12th level wizard casts fireball while increasing his CL by 1 with this feat: it deals 13d6 and he is stunned for 1 round.
That is what i see when i read it. Good thing it said "increase cl by 1,2, or 3" because if it said "increase by up to 3" i would use it on every spell ever for +0 cl to uncap the dice.
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from my reading it is that you raise your caster level and are stunned for that many rounds. That increase is limited to up to +3. However when using the feat it removes the cap on the spell entirely.
12th level wizard casts fireball: it deals 10d6
12th level wizard casts fireball while increasing his CL by 1 with this feat: it deals 13d6 and he is stunned for 1 round.
That is what i see when i read it. Good thing it said "increase cl by 1,2, or 3" because if it said "increase by up to 3" i would use it on every spell ever for +0 cl to uncap the dice.
I was going to ask why you couldn't do it, then I saw your point.
Still, if you can't be stunned, you only take 1d6 damage from raising it by one, it's an awesome deal.
EDIT: Also, remember myself to tuck in Tainted Scholar.
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Still, if you can't be stunned, you only take 1d6 damage from raising it by one, it's an awesome deal.
What would be some easy ways to become immune to stun, even if only temporarily, in order to keep your character up and running?
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Still, if you can't be stunned, you only take 1d6 damage from raising it by one, it's an awesome deal.
What would be some easy ways to become immune to stun, even if only temporarily, in order to keep your character up and running?
Favor of the Martyr spell in the spell compendium is the easiest way, but it is a paladin spell.
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Dispelling isn't the main issue, getting around MDJ and potentially AMF is. At these levels, MDJ is the FREAKING COMBAT OPENER.
Carry around one of the crappier minor artifacts. Nobody's willing to risk losing spellcasting.
Isn't there a spell that makes you auto-roll 20s though? At DC 25, the only concern is rolling a 1.
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Getting debuffed is actually the major concern here. I don't think Epic weapons can be disjoined.
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Owl's Insight would be fun with this.
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Owl's Insight would be fun with this.
*shudder*
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Owl's Insight would be fun with this.
*shudder*
:devil
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Kuroimaken, for those last three levels, I nominate at least 1-2 of them for Tainted Scholar :P You have unbeatable CL, why not have unbeatable DC's with NI spells/day? :P
Messing around with a build based off some of the information gathered in this thread. However, I'm stuck with one question: How exactly does Tainted Scholar get NI spells/day. I must have missed something when looking it over. As a similar question, are there any other ways to boost spells/day other than stat increase?
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A tainted scholar gets bonus spells based on taint. Outsiders and undead are immune to the effects of high taint. Inflate your taint for NI spells per day.
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A tainted scholar gets bonus spells based on taint. Outsiders and undead are immune to the effects of high taint. Inflate your taint for NI spells per day.
Rather, only undead and creatures with the [Evil] subtype are immune to the negative effects of taint. Therefore, with NI Taint score (and none of the penalties, due to being Undead or [Evil]) a character has NI Bonus Spells Per Day.
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Aight, thanks for that clarification.
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+1 Defending/+1 XXXXX Quaterstaff with 2x Checkmate's Light gives 12601 to AC and saves. (XXX is the defending equivalent of saves, it exists I'm just to lazy to find it)
Sorry for more questions but I can't seem to find anywhere the 'defending equivalent of saves' for a weapon enhancement. Can anyone help me out?
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I think its in the Magic Item Compendium.
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Owl's Insight would be fun with this.
This is the secret to Oozaru's 10^100 :)