the true arcane dilliante

[DavidWL]

Spellthief 1
Duskblade 1
Wizard 1
Sanctified 1
Bard 1
Ur-Priest 1
Prestige Paladin of Freedom 1
Ultimate Mage 1 - adding to Ur-Priest*
Ultimate Mage 2 - adding to Ur-Priest and Bard
Ultimate Mage 3 - adding to Ur-Priest and Bard
Sublime Chord 1
Sublime Chord 2
Ultimate Mage 4 - adding to SC
Ultimate Mage 5 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 6 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 7 - adding to SC
Ultimate Mage 8 - adding to Ur/SC
Spellwarp Sniper 1 - adding to Bard
Ultimate Mage 9 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 10 - adding to Ur/SC[/spoiler]

CL Breakdown
Spellthief      4
Duskblade   5
Wizard      5
Bard      8
Ur-Priest      14+1/2 other
Sublime Chord   10+Ur-Priest

Spellthief      1+4      =   5
Duskblade   1+4      =   5
Wizard       1+4      =   5
Bard      1+4      =   5
Ur-Priest      14+10+14   =   38
Sublime Chord   14+38      =   52
                      -------
               110 CL

Hi Kell!

Some thoughts (weakening the build)

• I think Ur-Priest is less.  2 Ur + 8 Pusedo Ur + 5 (Other casting classes) + 4 (Arcane Spell Power). = 19 total.  The text says "To determine the caster level of an Ur-Priest, add the character's ur-priest levels to 1/2 the levels in other spellcasting classes".  Strict Raw would say 2 + 1/2 (18) + 4 = 15.  Practically speaking, I think you count the classes that progress Ur-priest as if they were urpriest.
• Master spelltheif only sets the CL for arcane spells - for example, you can up your sublime chord spells to crazy CL.  However the Ur-Priest don't change, as they are divine.
• "A sublime chord's CL for spells from both sublime chord and other arcane caster levels is determined by adding CL from sublime chord to CL from another arcane CL".  So I don't think you can add Ur-Priest and sublime chord.

Some thoughts (strengthening your build)

• The spell "Transfer Essense" from the dragonlance book "towers of high sorcery" should allow another +8 to each class, assuming an 18th level victum (uh, cohort w/ the improved cohort feat).
• Circle Magic should probably increase the CL of each class by the full amount (up to a total of 40 each class)
• Consumptive field (even if applied only once) is * 150%, and probably should apply to all classes

Best,
David

[KellKheraptis]

Hiya David!

Well, not really.  I only counted levels twice that we're dual progression, and Ur-Priest most definitely is considered arcane, thanks to Sword of the Arcane Order.  Those aren't divine spells in those slots from that feat.  Furthermore, Ur-Priest is treated as arcane again from the Dragonblood Pool trick.  I'm pretty sure the CL is either dead on or damn close.  I had thought about adding in circle magic, but that would A)take too many levels, and B)not go nearly as high, as that caps out at 40.  Level 20 slots are nice for the DC's though, and every blaster loves free Maximize and Empower.  I'll have to look into Transfer Essence, and I hadn't touched Consumptive Fields yet, since those are NI anyway (especially when the unaugmented duration is upwards of a week for 1 hour/level spells).

[DavidWL]

Hiya David!

Well, not really.  I only counted levels twice that we're dual progression, and Ur-Priest most definitely is considered arcane, thanks to Sword of the Arcane Order.  Those aren't divine spells in those slots from that feat.  Furthermore, Ur-Priest is treated as arcane again from the Dragonblood Pool trick.  I'm pretty sure the CL is either dead on or damn close.  I had thought about adding in circle magic, but that would A)take too many levels, and B)not go nearly as high, as that caps out at 40.  Level 20 slots are nice for the DC's though, and every blaster loves free Maximize and Empower.  I'll have to look into Transfer Essence, and I hadn't touched Consumptive Fields yet, since those are NI anyway (especially when the unaugmented duration is upwards of a week for 1 hour/level spells).

Ah, my mistake.

I didn't know about the Dragon's blood pool trick.

There is a small but moderate amount of dragonlance stuff which is good which people don't use.  Maybe I should get a thread started.  Hmm.

Best,
David

[KellKheraptis]

Hiya David!

Well, not really.  I only counted levels twice that we're dual progression, and Ur-Priest most definitely is considered arcane, thanks to Sword of the Arcane Order.  Those aren't divine spells in those slots from that feat.  Furthermore, Ur-Priest is treated as arcane again from the Dragonblood Pool trick.  I'm pretty sure the CL is either dead on or damn close.  I had thought about adding in circle magic, but that would A)take too many levels, and B)not go nearly as high, as that caps out at 40.  Level 20 slots are nice for the DC's though, and every blaster loves free Maximize and Empower.  I'll have to look into Transfer Essence, and I hadn't touched Consumptive Fields yet, since those are NI anyway (especially when the unaugmented duration is upwards of a week for 1 hour/level spells).

Ah, my mistake.

I didn't know about the Dragon's blood pool trick.

There is a small but moderate amount of dragonlance stuff which is good which people don't use.  Maybe I should get a thread started.  Hmm.

Best,
David

By all means!  I've got the book but haven't paged through it in a while, other than to check on Academic Priest and Dragonspawn.  The big standout IMO is the Bozak Draconian.

EDIT : Thought of another reason to use Phantasmal Steed with the PrC Pally version : Mounted Combat is required to get in.  Wanna ignore damage whenever you're mounted (which is at least 110 hours)?

[Anklebite]

the CL workings of the master spell thief feat shennanigens are as follows: 
-first, you have the base caster level for a class.
-then, you add flat bonuses to CL, such as from UM and such.
-master spellthief then directly ADDS together ALL arcane CLs, and uses this new number as your CL for all arcane spells.


now, If you will excuse me, I must go find the twit who removed Fu from the boards, and slap him with a semi-frozen halibut. 


my black hat goes off to you Kell, as you just won my thread!   

[shaikujin]

Progression -
[spoiler]Spellthief 1
Duskblade 1
Wizard 1
Sanctified 1
Bard 1
Ur-Priest 1
Prestige Paladin of Freedom 1
Ultimate Mage 1 - adding to Ur-Priest*
Ultimate Mage 2 - adding to Ur-Priest and Bard
Ultimate Mage 3 - adding to Ur-Priest and Bard
Sublime Chord 1
Sublime Chord 2
Ultimate Mage 4 - adding to SC
Ultimate Mage 5 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 6 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 7 - adding to SC
Ultimate Mage 8 - adding to Ur/SC
Spellwarp Sniper 1 - adding to Bard
Ultimate Mage 9 - adding to Ur/SC
Ultimate Mage 10 - adding to Ur/SC[/spoiler]

Hi hi,

I have 3 questions, first, where can I find Dragonblood Pool?


Second, the arcane spell casting class that the UM advances needs to be the one with the lowest CL. At UM 1, your Ur CL is already 4 (1 Ur + 1 Prc pally, + 6/2 other arcane class levels). Making it higher than the your other arcane classes.

Even if we don't take the PrC pally and the Ur's CL boost into consideration, after improving the Ur's CL at UM 1, your Ur is now CL 2. Which will also make it not a valid arcane CL to improve at UM 2. What am I missing?


Third, is there a special reason why you are chosing to improve the Ur CL? Improving PrC pally would work too right?

[VennDygrem]

I have 3 questions, first, where can I find Dragonblood Pool?

This keeps coming up: Dragonsblood Pool is a Magical Location listed on pg 149 of Complete Mage.

You specifically can't buy the effects of Magical Locations, but there's nothing from stopping you from counting it as equivalent treasure, given the rules listed for magical locations. DMs are encouraged to use them in place of treasure, so it follows that they can be counted as such. Thus, they are particularly good for character creation, though not nearly so much once a game is going on, unless you can count on the DM to grant you access.

[KellKheraptis]

And the missing part is that Master Spellthief sets the CL of all arcane classes to the same number, enabling the build to progress UM onto whatever I want.  Thanks again to the Dragonblood Pool, until Ur-Priest has SotAO tech to back it up.

[Bloody Initiate]

I read what I thought was most of the thread and didn't think anyone said this, so I apologize for saying it again (and even saying it at all) if it's already been said:

It's spelled "Dilettante"

Sorry, there's mispellings and then there's butchery. The former is hard enough to abide without the latter rubbing salt in the wound.

[shaikujin]

I have 3 questions, first, where can I find Dragonblood Pool?

This keeps coming up: Dragonsblood Pool is a Magical Location listed on pg 149 of Complete Mage.

Thanks!

And the missing part is that Master Spellthief sets the CL of all arcane classes to the same number, enabling the build to progress UM onto whatever I want.  Thanks again to the Dragonblood Pool, until Ur-Priest has SotAO tech to back it up.

That's fricking brilliant! Hats off to you and Anklebite

[VennDygrem]

I read what I thought was most of the thread and didn't think anyone said this, so I apologize for saying it again (and even saying it at all) if it's already been said:

It's spelled "Dilettante"

Sorry, there's mispellings and then there's butchery. The former is hard enough to abide without the latter rubbing salt in the wound.

It's mostly because everyone else knew what he meant and didn't feel the need to point it out. To have to rub it in, so to speak.
It is helpful to show someone the correction to their spelling. To call their's butchery and commenting on it further is just mean-spirited. Let's be civil here.

[Bloody Initiate]

I read what I thought was most of the thread and didn't think anyone said this, so I apologize for saying it again (and even saying it at all) if it's already been said:

It's spelled "Dilettante"

Sorry, there's mispellings and then there's butchery. The former is hard enough to abide without the latter rubbing salt in the wound.

It's mostly because everyone else knew what he meant and didn't feel the need to point it out. To have to rub it in, so to speak.
It is helpful to show someone the correction to their spelling. To call their's butchery and commenting on it further is just mean-spirited. Let's be civil here.

I wasn't trying to be uncivil. I thought if anything I was calling myself a geek, but I suppose I made the mistake of assuming text could carry inflection.

I'm sorry for any insult to the OP, it wasn't meant to be rude or mean-spirited at all.

[KellKheraptis]

I read what I thought was most of the thread and didn't think anyone said this, so I apologize for saying it again (and even saying it at all) if it's already been said:

It's spelled "Dilettante"

Sorry, there's mispellings and then there's butchery. The former is hard enough to abide without the latter rubbing salt in the wound.

It's mostly because everyone else knew what he meant and didn't feel the need to point it out. To have to rub it in, so to speak.
It is helpful to show someone the correction to their spelling. To call their's butchery and commenting on it further is just mean-spirited. Let's be civil here.

I wasn't trying to be uncivil. I thought if anything I was calling myself a geek, but I suppose I made the mistake of assuming text could carry inflection.

I'm sorry for any insult to the OP, it wasn't meant to be rude or mean-spirited at all.

No worries, I was merely using the same wording as the original post to avoid confusion.  Firefox wouldn't let it go through otherwise   And having studied linguistics, I caught the dry humor behind it, too   Now what makes me curious with either version (particularly when using Spellwarp Sniper) is what happens when you use some of the damage boosting feats on an arcane thesis spell.  Take everyone's much maligned blast, fireball.  d6/level, capped, Long range, Ref for half.  Well, until we get a hold of it and make it a thesis spell.  How would fireball do if it were turned into a medieval RPB (Rocket Propelled Bullet, for those who've played Unreal Tournament), by making it a Fiery, Invisible, Spellwarped, Blistering Fireball from Hell, and taking the 1d6 damage from Reserves of Strength to uncap it.  Anklebite's would be packing 62d6+186 damage on a ranged touch attack, untyped damage (assuming a one level dip or two vile feats to make it all vile damage from selling our soul), for an average of 372 damage.  Ouch.  Now the kicker : Fiery (-1 level), Invisible (-2 levels, we're at a cantrip here), Blistering (-1 level, so now we're at negative spell levels), for a net of Spell Level -1.  Does this mean it draws such a small amount of arcane energy we can fire them off at will, like a warlock?  Does it default to a cantrip?  As such, can we make an item of it as a cantrip usable at will?

[Bloody Initiate]

I think you can make it an item, but sadly it won't be as wonderful as it sounds. The item will be wonderful, for sure, but it won't be easy to make.

Items take caster level into account in their price and therefore their experience cost as well as time required to create. While the spell level may be low the caster level will not be.

It would be fun to create though, and one thing I like about optimization is that it explains a lot of things that were previously DM fiat. Instead of just saying "It works that way because I said so" to the players, you can instead start with "I'm glad you asked..."

[KellKheraptis]

Here's one for the Mailman : Take Arcane Thesis : Fireball on my version, and replace the second level of Sublime Chord with Arcane Devotee, picking up Enlarge Spell somewhere in there.  Congrats, all spells are now automatically double range!  9600 ft range on that fireball now, which just so happens to be a ray.  That's just a little shy of 2 miles.  Hi, I'm a Dragunov now!  Want more?  Enlarge it, for -1 level (I think it's a +1 metamagic, even so, at break even that's a bargain).  Now you've got a range of 19,200 ft with a ray or a blast.  Even if you don't try and snipe at this range (which will probably require some serious altitude), that's some hefty indirect fire artillery.

[Havok4]

You also need some divination magic to even see your target given the spot check distance penalties.

[KellKheraptis]

Does anyone know what the nonepic noninfinite CL record is?  Because I could see one being possible with Circle Magic from this build, easily.

[NeverGetDrunkButStaySober]

I'm not sure if anyone had bothered to set a record. Regardless, if you're going for one, you'll probably want Persistent (Greater) Consumptive Field and an Earth/Evil/Shadow Weave Node.

Come to think of it, what was your intended record caster level, anyway? Because it's possible to get something rather high with an Illithid Savant, spellcasting, and Cosmic Connection.

[KellKheraptis]

Ok, his thesis spell needs to change, or SWS dropped for Mindbender or some other tasty 1 level dip, BUT!  There is something far more important here.  This is the first build to my knowledge that one-shots the Twice-Betrayer.  Like, no questions asked pounds it, as a single MDJ eradicates all AMF's and buffs/contingencies.  He'll have to come back from a clone/time shift and specifically ward against it, which is IMO still a victory (especially since I can do the same thing).  The mere fact that he's assured a win on round 1 though is sexy.

[bearsarebrown]

KELL. Can you afford 4 levels in your 110CL build?

Check out page 45 of Champions of Valor. Paladin variant that allows you to add arcane caster level to your paladin casting to determine the CL. This would effectively double the end CL of the build.