the true arcane dilliante

[Anklebite]

major bloodline

oh holy crap... possibly a smaller one and a tainted scholar dip? how gouda can we make this?

[CuddableKae]

Is there any reason for Tainted Scholar (HoH) over Tainted Sorcerer (UA)?

As far as I can tell, they seem effectively the same, but Tainted Sorcerer gets Tainted Metamagic at level 1 and can use Blood Component for expensive material components.  And with UA Taint rules, you only have 1 Taint score to increase, where as HoH requires you to get Depravity and Corruption scores higher, and your casting from Tainted Scholar only increases depravity when you cast a spell.  So, unless I'm missing something, Tainted Sorcerer seems notably better.

EDIT: Considering for both that you wouldn't want to take more than 1 level before going back to better classes.

[Anklebite]

Is there any reason for Tainted Scholar (HoH) over Tainted Sorcerer (UA)?

As far as I can tell, they seem effectively the same, but Tainted Sorcerer gets Tainted Metamagic at level 1 and can use Blood Component for expensive material components.  And with UA Taint rules, you only have 1 Taint score to increase, where as HoH requires you to get Depravity and Corruption scores higher, and your casting from Tainted Scholar only increases depravity when you cast a spell.  So, unless I'm missing something, Tainted Sorcerer seems notably better.

EDIT: Considering for both that you wouldn't want to take more than 1 level before going back to better classes.

nice catch. ok then, tainted SORCERER, and then two levels of bloodline. is it just me, or can you tell just how cheesy something is just by the fact it uses bloodlines?

[altpersona]

ya, its a good rule of thumb.


your never really gonna see human fighter17/Human BL 3.

[Bozwevial]

ya, its a good rule of thumb.


your never really gonna see human fighter17/Human BL 3.

Or, for that matter, any build with Fighter 17.

But yeah, bloodlines usually come into play when there's some ability you want to magnify far beyond normal.

[KellKheraptis]

Also, if we use the bloodlines as they were intended (i.e. as described in PBMC's handbook), we still get 20 levels to work with (given that with Experience as a River, this dude could EASILY pay for his bloodline levels and bounce right back to par with the party).

[Agita]

Is there any reason for Tainted Scholar (HoH) over Tainted Sorcerer (UA)?

Mainly that one is official while the other is basically homebrew.

[Anklebite]

where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it.  "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*

[Bozwevial]

where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it.  "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*

I thought that (outside of epic level progressions) eldritch blast had no set formula? It's always been "read from the table," I think.

[Anklebite]

where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it.  "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*

I thought that (outside of epic level progressions) eldritch blast had no set formula? It's always been "read from the table," I think.

huh, good point. I just went with the obvious "1/2 lvl til 10, 1/3 lvl after that" that I remembered. what was the epic progression again?

[Bozwevial]

where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it.  "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*

I thought that (outside of epic level progressions) eldritch blast had no set formula? It's always been "read from the table," I think.

huh, good point. I just went with the obvious "1/2 lvl til 10, 1/3 lvl after that" that I remembered. what was the epic progression again?

+1d6 at every even-numbered level over 20.

[Anklebite]

where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it.  "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*

I thought that (outside of epic level progressions) eldritch blast had no set formula? It's always been "read from the table," I think.

huh, good point. I just went with the obvious "1/2 lvl til 10, 1/3 lvl after that" that I remembered. what was the epic progression again?

+1d6 at every even-numbered level over 20.

wow, if you include the epic progression, it's much higher...
5d6+4d6+21d6= 30d6 base, and 40d6 with song of arcane power up.
 
holy shit, this had better not actually work. seriously, that's eff'ed up. please, for the love of crap somebody prove me wrong with the relevant RAW.

[bearsarebrown]

holy shit, this had better not actually work. seriously, that's eff'ed up. please, for the love of crap somebody prove me wrong with the relevant RAW.

My guess would be that because it's "look at the table" and the table stops at 20, so does the progression. You can't get Epic things until you are epic, even if you qualify.

[Anklebite]

holy shit, this had better not actually work. seriously, that's eff'ed up. please, for the love of crap somebody prove me wrong with the relevant RAW.

My guess would be that because it's "look at the table" and the table stops at 20, so does the progression. You can't get Epic things until you are epic, even if you qualify.

did they put that in writing anywhere? would love to be able to quote that.
not doubting you. just really want to know where to find it.

[bearsarebrown]

I think it's written out in the Epic rules. Or it could be included in the "just because it doesn't say you can't doesn't mean you can" clause.

[Anklebite]

I think it's written out in the Epic rules. Or it could be included in the "just because it doesn't say you can't doesn't mean you can" clause.

yeah, but then I think you might be able to get away with it. I can hear the arguments now...

"hey guys, it seems that the epic level material was made to help extrapolate current progressions beyond their written max. since that is what we are doing, isn't the epic material the RAW? after all, the epic warlock was written for warlocks who surpassed caster level 20! therfore, RAW states that this works! herp derp derp."

I think we need a more definite RAW reading to shut this sort of thing down.

[KellKheraptis]

Wouldn't this fall under the same category as the asshole buttfucks that claim a Wizard 5 with bardic music can't cast the 4th level spells of Sublime Chord 1 because they don't have CL 7?  The progression on Warlock is not only calculable as a formula (decaying to a slower rate at 10th, and reverting at 20th, but still a formula), but riddled with existing exceptions as is.  A particular warlock build I have floating around snags 30d6 EB abusing hellfire, and still gets 9th level spells, and that's without CL trickery.  I see absolutely no reason why this wouldn't work, and ultimately, given what all these guys can do, see no real bearing a 30 or 40 die EB can make compared to what their real NI spell slots can.  It does make for nice shock value, though

[Anklebite]

Wouldn't this fall under the same category as the asshole buttfucks that claim a Wizard 5 with bardic music can't cast the 4th level spells of Sublime Chord 1 because they don't have CL 7?  The progression on Warlock is not only calculable as a formula (decaying to a slower rate at 10th, and reverting at 20th, but still a formula), but riddled with existing exceptions as is.  A particular warlock build I have floating around snags 30d6 EB abusing hellfire, and still gets 9th level spells, and that's without CL trickery.  I see absolutely no reason why this wouldn't work, and ultimately, given what all these guys can do, see no real bearing a 30 or 40 die EB can make compared to what their real NI spell slots can.  It does make for nice shock value, though

hahaha, shock value it has in spades. "oh I'm so sorry that my absurd amount of spellslots overshadowed you, but please wait over there while I output more damage per round at will than you can nova for."

incidentally, can sublime chord take wings of flurry as a spell known? you know why I am asking.

[asdfjkl]

where again was that argument about warlock eldritch blast being based off caster level? they count as arcane casters, so adding in a level would boost caster level even further... and if EB really is based off of CL, then the original build would end up with about 22d6 before song of arcane power, and 29d6 after it.  "oh, woops, looks like I ran out of high powered spell slots. good thing I can chuck THESE around at will!" *22d6 eldritch blast*

I thought that (outside of epic level progressions) eldritch blast had no set formula? It's always been "read from the table," I think.

huh, good point. I just went with the obvious "1/2 lvl til 10, 1/3 lvl after that" that I remembered. what was the epic progression again?

+1d6 at every even-numbered level over 20.

wow, if you include the epic progression, it's much higher...
5d6+4d6+21d6= 30d6 base, and 40d6 with song of arcane power up.
 
holy shit, this had better not actually work. seriously, that's eff'ed up. please, for the love of crap somebody prove me wrong with the relevant RAW.

From Master Spellthief:

"Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells."

They reference that the warlock is neither an "arcane spellcaster" nor does he cast "arcane spells" many times in Complete Arcane, but they do explain how certain benefits such as +1 arcane spellcaster lv prestige classes work as well as how specific feats and prestige classes do or do not interact with warlocks.

Complete Arcane page 7 - "Invocations: A warlock does not prepare or cast spells as other wields of arcane magic do."

Same page, under the same heading "Since spell like abilities are not actually spells, a warlock cannot benefit from the Spell Focus feat".  He can, however benefit from the Ability Focus feat.. as well as from feats taht emulate metamagic effects for spell-like abilities, such as Quicken Spell-Like Ability.."

Warlocks don't "count as arcane casters".

Complete Arcane page 18 - "Warlocks benefit in a specific way from prestige classes that have "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" or +1 level of existing spellcasting class" as a level advancement benefit."

Same page:
"A warlock cannot qualify for prestige classes with spellcasting level requirements, as he never actually learns to cast spells".

[Tonymitsu]

erm.... I have some dumb questions. 


1. How does Ur-Priest benefit from a Dragonblood Pool?  In order to use the pool you have to be able to spontaneously cast 2nd level or higher spells, which gets one a bonus arcane spell slot for 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level.  How does that make Ur-Priest arcane instead of divine?

2. Sword of the Arcane Order lets you put wizard spells in your paladin spell slots.  Not arcane spells, but wizard spells.  It says nothing about changing the source of those spell slots from divine to arcane.

3. What sane DM would allow the interpretation of Master Spellthief to do what it does here instead of the much more obvious, "spellthief + one other arcane class = CL for that class, repeat for each arcane class you have?"