Fun Finds!

[JaronK]

Would making Sundered magic items fixable or transferable in terms of magic make Sunder work?

Not really, because then it's just like the disarm problem.  You need to spend valuable resources (feats) to get the ability to do this at all.  And yet not that many enemies actually use and need weapons and can easily be disarmed/sundered.  Too many enemies either rely on natural attacks or are perfectly happy using spells/spell like abilities/su abilities, to the point where only a small number of enemies are even annoyed by your ability.  It's like taking the Necropotent feat... congratulations, you're now slightly better at undead killing, but that's a small number of your fights so it's really a waste of a feat.

JaronK

[Unbeliever]

We allow Make Whole to apply to magical items on the off chance someone wants to sunder some things.  Our next campaign also uses a different way to generate treasure, so it's not a punishment to the PCs. 

On the whole, though, it's a niche ability, depending in large part on the setting.  In standard D&D, though, you're usually fighting monsters, so JaronK's points apply.  I was once upon a time playing in a campaign set during the Crusades, and there sundering was a relatively useful tactic. 

We're also trying out some house-ruled versions of all the combat maneuver type feats to try and see them get more play.  Just like disarming, I could see if it's only a 1 feat investment and something that is reasonably useful to use in some cases -- e.g., sunder the Antipaladin's black sword of doom(tm) -- I could see people using it.  I think I'm taking it for flavor reasons w/ my Mo9, and fighting guys w/ swords will be relatively frequent in the setting, so I'll let you know. 

[Kuroimaken]

I wish "disarming" actually referred to mutilation in D&D.

Just sayin'. Maybe if you could chop your enemy's arm off with it, sundering would be a good tactic.

[snakeman830]

I wish "disarming" actually referred to mutilation in D&D.

Just sayin'. Maybe if you could chop your enemy's arm off with it, sundering would be a good tactic.

Agreed.  It would be applicable against most enemies, then and those clauses in Regeneration about regrowing/reattaching limbs would actually mean something.

[Kuroimaken]

Optional house rule: sundering body parts.

We could use hydras as a benchmark.

[Unbeliever]

Optional house rule: sundering body parts.

We could use hydras as a benchmark.

There was a third-party Sunder Natural Weapons feat, too.  I did try my hand at one once upon a time, though I can't remember where I put it.  I think it was something like consistently imposing penalties to hit and damage based on the amount of damage you did (or your average damage, so it was an easy to apply flat number), and then if that reduced their attack bonus or damage to 0, the attack was "unusuable" until they received powerful healing magic, regeneration, some period of time elapsed, etc. 

The important thing would be to make it better than just stabbing someone in at least some circumstances or if you put the resources into it. 

[Gnomeo]

...On the whole, though, it's a niche ability, depending in large part on the setting...I was once upon a time playing in a campaign set during the Crusades, and there sundering was a relatively useful tactic.

It might also depend on the capabilities of your party.  In our group the Frenzied Berserker ended up with a cursed weapon that forced him to frenzy whenever combat broke out.  It happened during a play session in which the Cleric's player wasn't able to make it; so the group had no way to break the curse.  Our Crusader ended up sundering the cursed weapon to get rid of it.

Of course, it was the one and only time we used sunder as a tactic, but it was memorable.

[Kuroimaken]

Optional house rule: sundering body parts.

We could use hydras as a benchmark.

There was a third-party Sunder Natural Weapons feat, too.  I did try my hand at one once upon a time, though I can't remember where I put it.  I think it was something like consistently imposing penalties to hit and damage based on the amount of damage you did (or your average damage, so it was an easy to apply flat number), and then if that reduced their attack bonus or damage to 0, the attack was "unusuable" until they received powerful healing magic, regeneration, some period of time elapsed, etc. 

The important thing would be to make it better than just stabbing someone in at least some circumstances or if you put the resources into it. 

Well, damage + debuff > pure damage. Debuffing by itself makes a target more innofensive, to the point of becoming harmless, but D&D doesn't offer that many long-lasting options in that field. Most monsters that rely on natural weapons as their primary threat source don't have the spells to heal themselves, and if the monster's regenerating you want to set its remains on fire anyway.

[Epimetheus]

Shadow Cloak (DotU) also gives you a power similar to Abrupt Jaunt 3/day for 5500 gp. Now you don't have to be a conjurer to get Abrupt Jaunt!

[Lycanthromancer]

Shadow Cloak (DotU) also gives you a power similar to Abrupt Jaunt 3/day for 5500 gp. Now you don't have to be a conjurer to get Abrupt Jaunt!

Ooh. This just made my day. I want to try out a focused specialist (transmuter)/war weaver/legacy champion (advancing war weaver well past level 5), but I really wanted Abrupt Jaunt. However, Conjuration isn't that good for buffing via war weaver, so I found myself less than enthused.

Thanks!

[Lycanthromancer]

Oh! Also.

Take a changeling ACF double-specialist wizard (specializes in both transmutation and illusion by dumping three schools) and go focused specialist. Now you get 1 less regular spell slot, 1 bonus spell slot that can go to either an illusion or transmutation spells, 2 bonus spell slots that must be illusion spells, and 2 bonus spell slots that must be transmutation spells. PER LEVEL.

Now go master specialist. Now you gain bonuses for both transmutation and illusion, though you might have to burn feats on BOTH Spell Focus (Illusion) and Spell Focus (Transmutation).

Of course, if you wait to go master specialist until you've gone either red wizard or incantatrix, you can get special stuff for whatever other school you've chosen. And since you get an additional bonus focused school, focused specialist grants you 2 bonus spell slots for THAT school, too.

And if you choose red wizard, make sure to spend a bunch of money on spells to add to your spell book from your soon-to-be-dumped school, so you can still cast spells from it as you like.

[Epimetheus]

Just don't ban too many schools there If you go Incantatrix, then you'll only have 3 schools (Div, Ill, and Trans) left.

Specialist: Banning 2 schools for 1 bonus spell slot a day = good
Focused Specialist: Banning 3 schools for -1 normal slots and +3 bonus spell slots = good

Changeling Specialist: Banning 3 schools for 1 bonus spell slot a day = bad
Changeling Focused Specialist: Banning 4 schools for -1 normal slots and +5 bonus spell slots = good

Note that you only have Divination, Illusion, Transmutation, + 1 more, probably Conjuration/Abjuration

[Sobolev]

Oh! Also.

Take a changeling ACF double-specialist wizard (specializes in both transmutation and illusion by dumping three schools) and go focused specialist. Now you get 1 less regular spell slot, 1 bonus spell slot that can go to either an illusion or transmutation spells, 2 bonus spell slots that must be illusion spells, and 2 bonus spell slots that must be transmutation spells. PER LEVEL.

Now go master specialist. Now you gain bonuses for both transmutation and illusion, though you might have to burn feats on BOTH Spell Focus (Illusion) and Spell Focus (Transmutation).

Of course, if you wait to go master specialist until you've gone either red wizard or incantatrix, you can get special stuff for whatever other school you've chosen. And since you get an additional bonus focused school, focused specialist grants you 2 bonus spell slots for THAT school, too.

And if you choose red wizard, make sure to spend a bunch of money on spells to add to your spell book from your soon-to-be-dumped school, so you can still cast spells from it as you like.

This actually sounds awesome.

Edit: If you make it to Wizard 5, trade your feat for a Domain Power, grab Magic so you can activate items so you're not kicking yourself out of every school.

[Widow]

Hmm, I am not much help but maybe someone else can remeber where this is from.  There is a dragon magazine feat that allows a class that grants divine spell casting to use a limited use per day class ability two additional times a day (from that class).  At the time I got really excited for the Dweomerkeeper and then realized it does not grant divine spell casting, just possible progression.  At this point I promptly forgot the feat.

Maybe the Ur-Priest steal spell-like or planar shepard with more time dilation fields would be useful.  Any other ideas?  I never went looking since I could not do more supernatural spells.

[McPoyo]

Just don't ban too many schools there If you go Incantatrix, then you'll only have 3 schools (Div, Ill, and Trans) left.

Specialist: Banning 2 schools for 1 bonus spell slot a day = good
Focused Specialist: Banning 3 schools for -1 normal slots and +3 bonus spell slots = good

Changeling Specialist: Banning 3 schools for 1 bonus spell slot a day = bad
Changeling Focused Specialist: Banning 4 schools for -1 normal slots and +5 bonus spell slots = good

Note that you only have Divination, Illusion, Transmutation, + 1 more, probably Conjuration/Abjuration

If you threw some SCM in there, you wouldn't need Conjuration for your fourth school.

[SorO_Lost]

Just don't ban too many schools there If you go Incantatrix, then you'll only have 3 schools (Div, Ill, and Trans) left.

Specialist: Banning 2 schools for 1 bonus spell slot a day = good
Focused Specialist: Banning 3 schools for -1 normal slots and +3 bonus spell slots = good

Changeling Specialist: Banning 3 schools for 1 bonus spell slot a day = bad
Changeling Focused Specialist: Banning 4 schools for -1 normal slots and +5 bonus spell slots = good

Note that you only have Divination, Illusion, Transmutation, + 1 more, probably Conjuration/Abjuration

You are forgetting Abyssal Specialist.

Post the book source for the changing thing and what it does on my thread please.

[Lycanthromancer]

Just don't ban too many schools there If you go Incantatrix, then you'll only have 3 schools (Div, Ill, and Trans) left.

Specialist: Banning 2 schools for 1 bonus spell slot a day = good
Focused Specialist: Banning 3 schools for -1 normal slots and +3 bonus spell slots = good

Changeling Specialist: Banning 3 schools for 1 bonus spell slot a day = bad
Changeling Focused Specialist: Banning 4 schools for -1 normal slots and +5 bonus spell slots = good

Note that you only have Divination, Illusion, Transmutation, + 1 more, probably Conjuration/Abjuration

You are forgetting Abyssal Specialist.

Post the book source for the changing thing and what it does on my thread please.

The changeling dual-specialist wizard ACF is from Races of Eberron, and focused specialist is from CMage. Master specialist is also from CMage. Red wizard is from the DMG, and we all know where incantatrix is from, right?

Also, the Racial Emulation feat (also from RoE) allows you to count as a gnome for shadowcraft mage.

[SorO_Lost]

The changeling dual-specialist wizard ACF is from Races of Eberron, and focused specialist is from CMage. Master specialist is also from CMage. Red wizard is from the DMG, and we all know where incantatrix is from, right?

Also, the Racial Emulation feat (also from RoE) allows you to count as a gnome for shadowcraft mage.

I quoted that to the thread so I'd know it's there when ever I update it. Thanks.

[snakeman830]

Strike of Righteous Vitality (Devoted Spirit 9) is the only way to rapidly heal ability burn that I can find.  While ability burn is basically all self-inflicted, this is a good thing to remember.  Despite replicating a spell, it is Ex in nature, and thus not "magical healing".

[Lycanthromancer]

I'd rather take the feat in Hyperconscious that gives you ability reduction...err...reduction 3/-. It works on ANYTHING that reduces an ability score, including damage, drain, and burn.