Fun Finds!

[zook1shoe]

Me?

Where was this argument first posted? Post #?

[veekie]

I find the idea of using Fuse Arms on a mob, which is probably more RAW, plenty amusing by itself.

COMBINE!

Can't breath...Can't breath...

It was real unfortunate that I can't fit it into a gif.

[NeverGetDrunkButStaySober]

how in D&D a Diplomacy check (or whatever skill you prefer) is a skill check, but a skill check is not a Diplomacy check.
AKA: how in D&D an initiative check (or whatever skill you prefer) is a dexterity check, but a dexterity check is not an initiative check.

Here's your issue - this is not the argument anyone else is trying to make. When the rules state that initiative checks are Dexterity checks, they are understood by the logic of English grammar to be a subclass (hence my mention of the CS concept of "is-a" earlier) of Dexterity checks. Hence we're all saying that an initiative check is a Dexterity check, but a Dexterity check is not necessarily an initiative check. Specific vs. general, sort of like the difference between "hiking boots" and "shoes".

[Ras F]

This is what I was originally trying to re-locate when I found the other two weapons.

Serpent Kingdoms: Manyfang Dagger +1 dagger - deals quadruple damage on a successful hit, quintuple on a critical. 32,302gp

[SorO_Lost]

how in D&D a Diplomacy check (or whatever skill you prefer) is a skill check, but a skill check is not a Diplomacy check.
AKA: how in D&D an initiative check (or whatever skill you prefer) is a dexterity check, but a dexterity check is not an initiative check.

Here's your issue - this is not the argument anyone else is trying to make. When the rules state that initiative checks are Dexterity checks, they are understood by the logic of English grammar to be a subclass (hence my mention of the CS concept of "is-a" earlier) of Dexterity checks. Hence we're all saying that an initiative check is a Dexterity check, but a Dexterity check is not necessarily an initiative check. Specific vs. general, sort of like the difference between "hiking boots" and "shoes".

This whole 'fun find' is based on initiative being a subclass of dexterity and the consequences of so.

I see you like programming references so consider this.

Code: [Select]

public class DexterityCheck
{
public int Check()
{
return DexterityBonus + GetOtherDexterityCheckBonuses() + 1d20;
}
}

public class InitiativeCheck : DexterityCheck
{
public int Check()
{
return base.Check() + GetOtherInitiativeBonuses() + 1d20;
}
}It is a subclass of a dexterity check, it is a programming example, it is a different level. Even worded differently, Initiative = DexterityCheck + InitiativeBonuses + 1d20, relates the same thing I'm pointing out here.

I'm not saying initiative isn't a dexterity check. I'm not saying initiative bonuses should apply to dexterity. What I am saying is initiative is in fact as separate entity, and everyone is agreeing to that. What we are disagreeing on is when you start mentioned bonuses, you stop saying initiative is a subclass or separate and is only dexterity check - in turn omitting previous comments by in the very same post. Hence the huge tangent. You have a conclusion but no real way to reach it.

When I seen this

Stupid typo #23

At 2nd level, you gain immunity to magic and nonmagical sleep effects.

They said "magic", not "magical".  So you could stupid-literal read it as making you immune to magic.

I thought hey, let's post this here, it's the perfect place & timing. In the dash to say I'm wrong enough people would make comments saying initiative is a subclass of a dexterity check thus giving grounds for saying it's true but open to interpretation. You've done so, so I'm happy. Pocket the knowledge and move on.

***

Another fun find: Mind's Eye's thirteen new evil powers.

Scream of Death
The negative energy of this power also rebukes undead creatures, causing them to cower in fear. Undead in the area may be rebuked. The manifester makes a turning check to rebuke them as a cleric of 2 levels lower than the level of manifester.

Technically speaking, Command is internally part of Rebuke.

[snakeman830]

The rules are quite explicit: Initiative is a Dexterity check in the same way a Feint is a Bluff Check.  You can have modifiers that only apply to the specific use, but they are still applying to the same check as any generic bonuses.  As such, any named bonuses applying to the generic check and any applying to the specific check use standard stacking rules.  I can't even figure out where you got the idea this wasn't the case.

[Brainpiercing]

Serpent Kingdoms: Manyfang Dagger +1 dagger - deals quadruple damage on a successful hit, quintuple on a critical. 32,302gp

Just one more of those "stoned game designers get together" things...

It's clearly ridiculous, now you have to apply it to other weapons - BIG weapons. Add shaping and sizing, for one. Or find a generous GM that will let you change the base weapon of fixed enchantments.

[snakeman830]

Serpent Kingdoms: Manyfang Dagger +1 dagger - deals quadruple damage on a successful hit, quintuple on a critical. 32,302gp

Just one more of those "stoned game designers get together" things...

It's clearly ridiculous, now you have to apply it to other weapons - BIG weapons. Add shaping and sizing, for one. Or find a generous GM that will let you change the base weapon of fixed enchantments.

I can see it being rather nice on, say, a Keen Bodyfeeder weapon.  Lots of temporary hp when you crit.

[Brainpiercing]

Now granted, there is a blurb about these weapons only being found in exactly those forms at the beginning of the Magic Items section in SK...

[zook1shoe]

the Shadow Sentinel from Races of Destiny, would be perfect at changing the weapon size/type

[JaronK]

What is this nonsense about initiative checks and dexterity checks?  It's spelled out in plain English!

Initiative
Initiative Checks

At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll. Characters act in order, counting down from highest result to lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions).

If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first). If there is still a tie, the tied characters should roll again to determine which one of them goes before the other.

This is from both the SRD and PHB.

JaronK

[Bauglir]

Oh, yeah, that's not the issue. The issue is whether or not "is an initiative check" means a) an initiative check is a specific instance of dexterity check, much like tripping is a special instance of a Strength check, or b) an initiative check is a Dexterity check with a special bonus for your Initiative modifier. The difference is slight, and it's the sort of pedantism that we kind of have to work with now that we've begun to exhaust actually significant rules to argue over, but if it's the latter you can get a bonus to your initiative bonus to that Dexterity check (much like your can get a bonus to your Armor bonus to AC), but if it's the former then both bonuses apply to the same number and so you get normal stacking rules. I believe it's the former, because that's the simplest interpretation and makes the most sense, but SorO was arguing for the second.

[Ras F]

3rd party: AEG "Feats" book.
[spoiler]Roughneck, p. 69: Str 13+, You may use your strength bonus to Fortitude saves in addition to your Constitution.[/spoiler]

[Talore]

3rd party: AEG "Feats" book.
[spoiler]Roughneck, p. 69: Str 13+, You may use your strength bonus to Fortitude saves in addition to your Constitution.[/spoiler]

What the fuck?

Oh well, I guess monsters get to succeed every fortitude save ever even more than they already do.

[zook1shoe]

I have that book, that's not even the most powerful one

[Bozwevial]

I have that book, that's not even the most powerful one

Isn't that the one with gems like the feat that forces a save-or-die with every sneak attack?

[Archao]

I have that book, that's not even the most powerful one

Isn't that the one with gems like the feat that forces a save-or-die with every sneak attack?

I don't know about that, but I did find one with instantly kills ANYTHING that you damage with sneak attack. Requires 6 feats (plus, one of those 6 requires Imp. Unarmed Strike) and 12+ BAB.

[Ras F]

I have that book, that's not even the most powerful one

Isn't that the one with gems like the feat that forces a save-or-die with every sneak attack?

I don't know about that, but I did find one with instantly kills ANYTHING that you damage with sneak attack. Requires 6 feats (plus, one of those 6 requires Imp. Unarmed Strike) and 12+ BAB.

I wish Archao was kidding. Here's the direct feat description: "When you damage an opponent with a sneak attack, he dies instantly."

Expect your DM to never send another male character against you ever, if you use that feat.

[Widow]

Serpent Kingdoms: Manyfang Dagger +1 dagger - deals quadruple damage on a successful hit, quintuple on a critical. 32,302gp

Just one more of those "stoned game designers get together" things...

It's clearly ridiculous, now you have to apply it to other weapons - BIG weapons. Add shaping and sizing, for one. Or find a generous GM that will let you change the base weapon of fixed enchantments.

Weaponshift from the Spell compendium can fix that easy.  It would not even be all that hard to add a use activated unlimited uses per day property for this spell to the item, should only be 4,000gp by the DMG rules.  I am thinking courtisan blade (that two handed thinblade) which still lets you use weapon finess for the non-strenght fighters.  There is also that pesky exotic weapon in the one dragon magazine that lets you attack twice for every melee attack you make. 

Hmm, I wonder what happens if you through a Fiend of Possession into it, I am sure you can come up with some more stuff to add even if you just go with a +6 enhancement.

Now granted, there is a blurb about these weapons only being found in exactly those forms at the beginning of the Magic Items section in SK...

Agreed, but the word they use is usually.  So if you can make it, then the should be able to change it.  Not that I condone making this dagger as another weapon.  Just get the spell above cast. 

I have that book, that's not even the most powerful one

Isn't that the one with gems like the feat that forces a save-or-die with every sneak attack?

The Book of Ultimate feats by mongoose is far worse.  To name a few ...

1)There is a feat where you take a point of con damage per spell level to not use the spell slot when casting a spell. 
2)There are two feats that increase skill caps, one is +1 to all skills and the other is +2 to one skill.  Can you say early PrC entry?
3)There is Persistent Power, yes they did it, persistent for psionics.  The feat is fun when half the powers in the book are personal and there are easy recharge methods.  Especially when you use the eberron implant stones that increase your manifestor level to cover the 8PP cost of persistent power.
4)There is also a stackable feat that reduces xp costs on spells.  Probably best if you are using the shun/embrace the dark chaos tricks (plus it makes those spell cheaper in the process).
5) I am afraid to mention these two metamagics but... Spell Chain (Not chain spell).  It is a +2 metamagic adjust you apply to two spells, you can cast the two spells at the same time.  If you take the feat again, it is still +2 but you can cast three spells.  It is like quicken spell adjustment split between the two spells.  You can see where this is going with your Incantrix Arcane Thesis build.
Lasting Spell=Persistent Spell on crack.  Spells can now last centuries, but usually a Week is enough for me.  You can put up a lot of buffs with just three spell slots a day when the spell lasts weeks.  Even better epic with your miracle emulation on the shadowcraft mage.  Nothing like lingering spell on your silent image miracle that lasts weeks.  Disjunction is not so scary any more (put all your gold into epic spells, "equipment" is then safe).

[zook1shoe]

I remember an Infernal feat in the Feats book that gives you a wish for your soul.