Author Topic: Fun Finds!  (Read 163371 times)

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zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #600 on: March 29, 2011, 06:20:05 AM »
I didn't read all of the pages, has anyone tried the Tauric template with already templated animals?

The Mind Mage in #313 gets super nasty!

bearsarebrown

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #601 on: March 29, 2011, 10:59:03 AM »
The Mind Mage in #313 gets super nasty!
I've made a topic about it before. It's one of that classes that's so strong it's hard not to break.

Ras F

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #602 on: March 29, 2011, 12:04:08 PM »
I didn't read all of the pages, has anyone tried the Tauric template with already templated animals?

I believe that was used in some of the iterations of the hulking hurler world-smasher builds.
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zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #603 on: March 29, 2011, 01:16:26 PM »
back on the WotC Boards, i was one of the people utilizing that stuff.

i found a new way to get fuse arms even more powerful....

a mob of Tauric Anthro-Squid-Squid ;)

Ras F

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #604 on: March 29, 2011, 02:07:43 PM »
back on the WotC Boards, i was one of the people utilizing that stuff.

i found a new way to get fuse arms even more powerful....

a mob of Tauric Anthro-Squid-Squid ;)

While, amusing; strictly speaking, Squids have 0 legs. Anthropomorphic squids possibly only have 2 arms as well. In the process of becoming anthropomorphic, they lose 2 of their tentacles to gain legs, and they DO have hands, though nothing says that they acquire more than one pair of them.

If you have a lenient DM, this could prove amusing- however in a PbP game going by RAW, it falls apart. Find a way to turn squids into a quadruped and you might have a leg to stand on.  :drums
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zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #605 on: March 29, 2011, 02:17:53 PM »
Wikipedia says a quadruped has four limbs or legs used of locomotion.

they give stats for the Anthro-squid and they would keep 8 of the 10 tentacles, the other 2 become the "legs"

i don't remember seeing anything about getting hands as an Anthro-squid

Fuse Arms does specify arms OR tentacles


so a mob of Tauric Anthropomorphic Squid-Squids would have 48 members, each with 18 "arm-tentacles"

so cast Fuse Arms or have it permanent, and those 864 limbs become 2 with a +3,448 Str bonus

Ras F

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #606 on: March 29, 2011, 02:30:07 PM »
Webster, and Latin (who aren't wikipedia) both agree that quadruped means an animal having four feet.
Quad = 4, Ped=foot

The hands thing is listed under the general features of the anthropomorphic template in the Attacks: section. "An anthropomorphic animal has the natural attacks of the base creature, but it can also use weapons if it did not have hands already." Meaning, it can still make tentacle attacks with those arms, but it now has (likely only 2) hands.

As I already said, if your DM doesn't mind squinting a little bit, this is amusing. RAW says no.
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Agita

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #607 on: March 29, 2011, 03:21:53 PM »
I find the idea of using Fuse Arms on a mob, which is probably more RAW, plenty amusing by itself.

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zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #608 on: March 29, 2011, 04:33:29 PM »
thanks ;)

and guess the way to get the 30 HD down?

Ras F

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #609 on: March 29, 2011, 04:46:20 PM »
I find the idea of using Fuse Arms on a mob, which is probably more RAW, plenty amusing by itself.

COMBINE!

Fuse Arms on a mob is unquestionably within RAW, and that was the funniest damn thing I've seen all week.
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zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #610 on: March 29, 2011, 04:50:08 PM »
use the Petitioner template to drop it to 2 outsider HD

yeah that ones crazy, mine was reading about the Monk with a Necklace of Natural Weapons imbued with the Hide-Away weapon ability

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #611 on: March 29, 2011, 04:52:24 PM »
NGDbSS nice post

Stupid typo #23

Quote from: Wild soul, complete mage
At 2nd level, you gain immunity to magic and nonmagical sleep effects.

They said "magic", not "magical".  So you could stupid-literal read it as making you immune to magic.
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Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #612 on: March 29, 2011, 05:12:56 PM »
use the Petitioner template to drop it to 2 outsider HD

yeah that ones crazy, mine was reading about the Monk with a Necklace of Natural Weapons imbued with the Hide-Away weapon ability

EVERYTHING gets funnier when you apply weapon properties to a monk.

Even flaming.

"MY JUNK IS ON FIRE!! owait..."
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Bastian

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #613 on: March 29, 2011, 07:30:48 PM »
I find the idea of using Fuse Arms on a mob, which is probably more RAW, plenty amusing by itself.

COMBINE!
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

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McPoyo

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #614 on: March 29, 2011, 07:42:18 PM »
I find the idea of using Fuse Arms on a mob, which is probably more RAW, plenty amusing by itself.

COMBINE!
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Can't breath...Can't breath...
centipede swarm. Thousands of creatures with tens of legs.
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Kuroimaken

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #615 on: March 29, 2011, 09:07:23 PM »
I find the idea of using Fuse Arms on a mob, which is probably more RAW, plenty amusing by itself.

COMBINE!
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Can't breath...Can't breath...
centipede swarm. Thousands of creatures with tens of legs.

The... horror...
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
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Final Fantasy 7
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Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #616 on: March 30, 2011, 01:35:40 AM »
If that does not explain it well enough for you, then I must not understand the way you are thinking about it well enough. Could you please explain your thought process of how you came to this conclusion about Initiative and Dexterity checks, because all I can see in what you've wrote is an argument missing a step somewhere.
Yeah, the second post was as close as I can get to a meh while still using more than one word.

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The idea is something I stumbled upon no where near initiative. In fact comes from the Defending enchantment and a recent thread of a high AC/Saves core-only duelist where I wondered where I could scrape more bonuses to AC.

[spoiler]
The defending enhancement directly adds a bonus to your armor class, it isn't a subsidiarity addon enhancement to armor, enhancement to shield, enhancement to natural armor. It's just an unnamed bonus directly granting a bonus to AC. In the same token, why could you not add an enhancement bonus to AC it's self and it stack? There is already three cases doing so and allowed to do so by operating at different levels. Somewhere along the line it got me to think of initiative.

Initiative Checks are Dexterity Checks (rules directly state so). Improved Initiative, and many others, offer direct bonuses to the initiative score and not it's subsidiarities, which according to Garryl and Mr Under-21 is the Dexterity Check. blah blah blah I can't give a good rebuttal so I say one is AC the other is Initiative it's a fallacy to compare bullshit aside. Defending is the same as Improved Initiative. Both grant an unnamed bonus to what represents a combined total. But what if those bonuses were named?

In the case of AC and the presented example of enhancement backed by rules, presentations, examples, etc. Applying to different entities allows stacking. This is an established fact and does not change on your whims or opinions. For the example of initiative I picked luck since it was the first named bonus I could think of that could overlap. Now if initiative can be proven to be a separate entity from a dexterity check then the bonuses must stack.

But is it a separate entity?
Well it initiative truly is a dexterity check then therefor all initiative bonuses apply to dexterity checks for they are one and the same. On the same token, your trip check is a strength/dexterity check and those bonuses can intermingle. Obviously this seems wrong and goes against intent. Therefor Initiative is a separate entity, though I am all for people saying it is the same due to the other mentioned repercussions.

Now the last step, outside the box.
The box in this case is if initiative is the same as a dexterity check in all regards or a separate thing. Outside the box would be something else.
Initiative is a dexterity check and it is it's own separate thing. As such all dexterity boosts are applied on the same level as initiative boosts. And as it's own thing it's boosts cannot be applied inveterately.
Is a prime example of a 3rd option. It is also the one you are all readily jumping on as well. Problem is, it is a conclusion. Based on opinion with no method supporting it.

[tangent]
As some of you know from seeing me argue. I tend to talk about methods, in order to validate your conclusion you must present a method of obtaining it, and that method of obtaining it bears your entire point and how valid it is. This is both my bias and my antibias. For instance, since I get accused of kobold insertion I know a good example, if you were to claim kobolds are true dragons because their ancestors were TD the correct return is not to jabber on about how yellow makes you sad. But to ID the method and argue against it. In said case the method is biological linage as proof, a point against would be Half-Dragon since a much more direct heritage and being a HD doesn't make you a TD. Now say you moved to a different thing, such as white dragons are not longer than 100ft therefor MM/Draco is wrong ignore it. I've coined that method specific replaces general and link the DMG or RCs rules that explicitly handle invalidating that. Arguments will then touch on other areas then degenerate into a fallacy. kobold is TD cus fluff says so, fluff says so cus specific says so, specific says so cus fluff says so for example. What you have there is a method called opinion and nothing else. your opinion on what to read and ignore is the only way you've reached the conclusion you already choose.

snakeman830 & Garryl present no validation for their conclusion. They present no method, no points. Just a conclusion based on how they think it should be. This lack of a method, a reason, a validation, of the conclusion will lead to you to saying contradictions. Example: The enhancement bonuses are effectively being laundered into armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses. ... However, adding multiple luck bonuses to initiative and to Dex won't make them stack, because it's still a luck bonus being applied to the final check.. He says you can apply it to different things within the final check and it works then moment later disagrees with him self. His personal bias that his conclusion must be right without any substance to prove it creates mistakes like that.
[/tanget]

I could not come up with a method to validate the 3rd option. Oh I thought it worked like the 3rd option and I'm currently poking your brains to present one to me. But at this time, it's still not there. Garryl improved and tried to come up with something to validate his side using skill checks. I commend his advancement in such a short time and not turning things into bonfire.
*end spoiler*, not like you're reading it anyway.
[/spoiler]

how in D&D a Diplomacy check (or whatever skill you prefer) is a skill check, but a skill check is not a Diplomacy check.
AKA: how in D&D an initiative check (or whatever skill you prefer) is a dexterity check, but a dexterity check is not an initiative check.
Where is the validation? Not only do I see none but I now have a new question.

Skill Checks are not ability checks though they use the ability score bonus. However, Hide check is a skill check and would benefit from a pale green ioun stone which grants all skills a +1 competence bonus. How would granting Hide it's self a competence bonus work out?

Same bonus, applied in different areas, same exact case as initiative. Again, tripping, initiative, and now skill checks come to mind on how to handle this. The only rules on this subject I know of and mentioned so far are stacking rules and presented interaction of enhancements to armor class. Saying initiative checks are not dexterity checks agrees with my 1st post on this debate. Saying initiative bonuses do not apply to dexterity checks certain agrees with rule's intent. But you need more than your opinion to say the bonuses applied on different teirs do not apply with armor class is say it does work. I think Mr something-about-never-drinking for bringing up Thicken Skin too, it is a direct bonus to that end total (rather than though another value) in the same regard as Improved Initiative and helps reinforce the concept.




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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #617 on: March 30, 2011, 02:20:58 AM »
Skill Checks are not ability checks though they use the ability score bonus. However, Hide check is a skill check and would benefit from a pale green ioun stone which grants all skills a +1 competence bonus. How would granting Hide it's self a competence bonus work out?
They don't stack.  Just how you only get a +2 luck bonus on your saves against that monstrous spider when you're wearing a Cloak of Arachnida and holding a luckblade
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zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #618 on: March 30, 2011, 02:30:25 AM »
But a competence bonus to the score itself would stat, because they are separate, but linked

snakeman830

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Re: Fun Finds!
« Reply #619 on: March 30, 2011, 02:42:22 AM »
We did explain, you chose to ignore it.

The enhancement bonuses to Armor/Shield/Natural Armor stack because they are not Enhancement Bonuses to AC.  They are Enhancement Bonuses to the Armor/Shield/Natural Armor bonuses which in turn stack to form AC.  To be perfectly clear, the AC has no Enhancement Bonus in it's calculation, it has an armor/shield/natural armor bonus.  The enhancement bonus is applied to the armor/shield/natural armor and the latter (increased) bonus is applied to AC.

By comparison, a +2 Luck Bonus to Initiative and a +1 Luck Bonus on ability score checks wouldn't stack.  Initiative is a Dexterity Check, so it would have the +1 Luck bonus applied.  Since we have another bonus applying to the more specific situation, we apply it as well.  Then stacking rules come into play.  You have a +1 Luck Bonus and a +2 Luck Bonus applying to the exact same check.  Stacking rules state that only the highest applies, so your Initiative check would only get the +2 Luck Bonus.

Enhancement bonuses on equipment/natural armor apply to the equipment/natural armor, not to AC.  For Initiative Checks, the same thing could work for a morale bonus to Dex (works via Aura of Vitality) and a morale bonus to Dex checks/Initiative checks.  The first Morale bonus is applying to the Dex score, which is then used to calcuate the check bonus.  There is no Morale Bonus applied to the Initiative check right now, so any that come up will add on just fine.
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