Do we have a dirty trick handbook?

[EjoThims]

I seem to recall an Uberermount kicking around somewhere; I'll poke about for it.

I only recall the UberERCharger, not mount.

[InnaBinder]

You may very well be right; I'm not doing anything more productive than searching for it, though.  If I can't find it, I'll know I either mixed it up with the Uberercharger or my roommates have been putting hallucinogens in the air ducts. 

[woodenbandman]

EDIT: Well, Don't I look foolish. I had thought that those levels stacked, when they in fact do not. So... new calculations are 30HD of wildshaping. 4Arcane Hierophant + 9Druid+4MoMF+4Nature's Warrior + 13 other levels = 30. Aren't there any more? What about a planar shephard for 4 more? Wildshape into 34 HD outsiders!.

I found Abolisher in Lords of Madness, easy entry with a few skill points, the Track feat, and you can't be an Elan (oh no). That bumps it up to 38, if you can find any outsiders epic enough.

[Agita]

That bumps it up to 38, if you can find any outsiders epic enough.

Planar Shepherd gets (Su) and Spell-like Abilities of WS forms, right?

EDIT: Damn, it's incorporeal... please ignore this fool.

[BowenSilverclaw]

EDIT: Well, Don't I look foolish. I had thought that those levels stacked, when they in fact do not. So... new calculations are 30HD of wildshaping. 4Arcane Hierophant + 9Druid+4MoMF+4Nature's Warrior + 13 other levels = 30. Aren't there any more? What about a planar shephard for 4 more? Wildshape into 34 HD outsiders!.

I found Abolisher in Lords of Madness, easy entry with a few skill points, the Track feat, and you can't be an Elan (oh no). That bumps it up to 38, if you can find any outsiders epic enough.

*cough*Divine Minion*cough*

[woodenbandman]

So that's what, 50? Dragon Wild Shape at 12th level and you're a force dragon. "Make a DC 51 Will save or die slightly faster  "

[Straw_Man]

  Seems like the best place to put this, advice otherwise if I'm in error.

  I'm trying to do he Haunt Shift trick with a Undead Sublime Song Bard and paying a Wiz to do most of the work. I'd like it to look mostly like my character so Medium sized but the stats of a medium animated object are meh. Any tricks for this?

[JaronK]

If you're willing to fool around with sizes a bit, you could make a Huge statue of yourself, then cast Shrink Item on it and have the Wizard Permenancy that.  You do need to be the caster for Shrink Item, but that will give you the stats of a huge object (far more hitpoints, much better strength, poor dexerity), and then at will you can shrink down to tiny, which is handy and gets around the usual "can't fit" issues of being huge.  So, that's an option to consider at least.

Having the Wizard cast Hardness on you will help defensively, though it won't help with physical stats.  Also, getting a Psion to cast Matter Manipulation is great.

Other than that, just wear gear on the statue that boosts your stats.  It's still your body, so this should work fine.

JaronK

[JaronK]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot.  Haunt Shift yourself into a door with an attached frame, attach a Silent Portal Disk on yourself, and then move about by opening yourself to flop about.  Permanent invisibility would be good too.  You will be a totally silent and invisible door ninja.

Style, baby.

JaronK

[Kuroimaken]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot.  Haunt Shift yourself into a door with an attached frame, attach a Silent Portal Disk on yourself, and then move about by opening yourself to flop about.  Permanent invisibility would be good too.  You will be a totally silent and invisible door ninja.

Style, baby.

If it weren't for my absolute lack of drawing ability, I'd have made a comic about this by now.

[Negative Zero]

Now whip out the Errata for complete adventurer, and you'll find out that Nature's Warrior, Warshaper, Master of Many Forms all stack with druid for determining HD limits. In fact, I think Daggerspell Shaper might too, as does Arcane Hierophant (Races of the Wild). If you start with precocious apprentice, then grab some bloodlines, you end up with



Wizard1/druidx/Master of Many Forms1/Nature's Warrior 1/Warshaper1/Arcane Hierophant1/Strong Bloodline 3

Giving up 9th level (and possibly 8th level, haven't calculated yet, however, you can achieve the brokenness of this before level 10, giving you access to 16hd more wildshape than you're supposed to. Can you say Dire Polar Bear? Get an item of permanent Enhance Wild Shape (comes to be pretty expensive), and rock out with Battlebriar (although I can't recall if the levels stack for determining what forms you have access to). Go MoMF the rest of the way (I believe you can put all 10 levels in), and just rock the FUCK out with 36 HD dragons.

Warshaper doesn't, actually. I'm pretty sure Daggerspell Shaper should, but it doesn't.

I also think you need extensive trickery (like a Lore-dragon-kobold) to enter Arcane Hierophant with only 1 arcane class level. It's still a nice trick (and another reason for me to go  at the mention of bloodlines).

Extensive trickery? Hah.

Loredrake, White Dragonspawn, Versatile Spellcaster/Heighten Spell. Alternate Source Spell (debatably).
This is MinMax man. We don't let stuff like 'prerequisites' get in our way.

[Omen of Peace]

Yeah, I mentioned the Lore-dragon-kobold. I call that extensive trickery.

[Heliomance]

Where's the build that has a chance of doing infinite attacks per round?

[awaken DM golem]

4E ?
Just click over to that board, and look for a Tsuyoshikentucky thread. I think it's called "Yeah, 4E's Borked".


3.5E ?
Time Stop (spammed) gives infinite actions in core.
Synchronicity (1st level psi-power) with quicken or twin, does the same. You need pp recharge though, and a rules debate.
Celerity chain with other extra action spells/powers = either infinite or semi-infinite ... if i remember vaguely correctly.
Epic Spell ... of course.

[Heliomance]

Nah, there was a build somewhere that involved giving yourself an extra attack every time you criticalled, and making sure you had a silly crit range. This meant if you kept getting crits, you got more and more actions. A long enough streak of natural 1s would end it, but the number of natural 1s you had to get kept increasing. Net result, either it petered out in the first hundred or so attacks, or you got infinite attacks.

[Agita]

Nah, there was a build somewhere that involved giving yourself an extra attack every time you criticalled, and making sure you had a silly crit range. This meant if you kept getting crits, you got more and more actions. A long enough streak of natural 1s would end it, but the number of natural 1s you had to get kept increasing. Net result, either it petered out in the first hundred or so attacks, or you got infinite attacks.

I recall that build. AFAIK, it used dual Aptitude Kukris with Lightning Mace and Blood in the Water. Possibly also Disciple of Dispater for the truly silly crit ranges.

[Prime32]

EDIT: Ninja'd, and more accurately to boot.

[Bozwevial]

While we're at it, Tsuyo once brought up the shaedling. The single most broken race in 3.5 ever.

[Callix]

Nah, there was a build somewhere that involved giving yourself an extra attack every time you criticalled, and making sure you had a silly crit range. This meant if you kept getting crits, you got more and more actions. A long enough streak of natural 1s would end it, but the number of natural 1s you had to get kept increasing. Net result, either it petered out in the first hundred or so attacks, or you got infinite attacks.

I recall that build. AFAIK, it used dual Aptitude Kukris with Lightning Mace and Blood in the Water. Possibly also Disciple of Dispater for the truly silly crit ranges.

All four of those, and Roundhouse Kick. It then involved a four-page fight over whether or not it generated infinite attacks, involving multiple methods of probability calculations. IIRC, the creator was arguing that it couldn't go infinite to try and claim the "most attacks" record. It was proved that this did indeed diverge the vast majority of the time.

One of the quirks of the maths on this one was that the vast majority of finite results were around a dozen attacks each. Given you start with nine from GTWF, that's not that much of an improvement.

EDIT:

While we're at it, Tsuyo once brought up the shaedling. The single most broken race in 3.5 ever.

Any ability with an unrestrained variable ("any creature", "any object", etc) is an automatic LA -- in my book. What were they thinking? Anything, as long as you can hold onto it?

[JaronK]

Yeah, that was my thread.  The original indeed only got a reasonable, but not truly insane number of attacks most of the time... maybe.  The later version absolutely went to infinity.

It was never actually proved that the original went to infinity... depending on your modeling method, it either averaged at infinity or never went infinite... we never did actually sort that one out.  It involved a lot of higher math to even try to figure it out, but we never actually did.  Some people talked about modeling it, but they never actually did so.

JaronK