Author Topic: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?  (Read 268689 times)

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Tshern

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #940 on: December 06, 2009, 08:26:15 PM »
Multipouncing in Eberron Takes about 2 minutes to load on a fast connection.  If you're still on dial-up, I suggest bringing a book.   :p
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CantripN

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #941 on: December 06, 2009, 08:27:43 PM »
Yeah, that took all of a 2 nanoseconds to load, so I wonder...
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Vinom

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #942 on: December 06, 2009, 08:33:52 PM »
2 seconds... I could have routed through a HAM radio ethernet set up in under 2 minutes.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #943 on: December 06, 2009, 08:39:01 PM »
Multipouncing in Eberron Takes about 2 minutes to load on a fast connection.  If you're still on dial-up, I suggest bringing a book.   :p
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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #944 on: December 06, 2009, 08:41:09 PM »
Yeah, that took all of a 2 nanoseconds to load, so I wonder...
It is entirely possible that my internetz hiccupped as it opened.  I couldn't tell for sure, and thought it'd be nicer to include the comment that it might take a while to load.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #945 on: December 17, 2009, 09:35:12 PM »
Has anyone considered what a warforged artificer could do with alter self and astral constructs?

It's a build-your-own-combat-form spell!
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NeverGetDrunkButStaySober

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #946 on: December 17, 2009, 09:46:59 PM »
Problem: Nearly all astral construct abilities are Extraordinary. And Alter Self voids all Extraordinary abilities that are not from class levels.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #947 on: December 17, 2009, 10:00:27 PM »
Gives you natural attacks, racial bonus feats (which all of the feat-based menu abilities are, given that ACs don't have Int scores), flight, swimming speeds, and all the goodies such as natural armor and DR.

[edit] What about using the item alteration infusion to give yourself Luck, Competence, Insight, Dodge, and even Natural Armor bonuses to Intelligence via Tomes of Clear Thought?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 10:20:07 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Operation Shoestring

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #948 on: December 18, 2009, 12:15:01 AM »
What about using the item alteration infusion to give yourself Luck, Competence, Insight, Dodge, and even Natural Armor bonuses to Intelligence via Tomes of Clear Thought?

I'm sure someone is shortly going to explain why that doesn't work, but you sir have just made my day.  :lmao

NeverGetDrunkButStaySober

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #949 on: December 18, 2009, 12:19:02 AM »
Gives you natural attacks, racial bonus feats (which all of the feat-based menu abilities are, given that ACs don't have Int scores), flight, swimming speeds, and all the goodies such as natural armor and DR.

[edit] What about using the item alteration infusion to give yourself Luck, Competence, Insight, Dodge, and even Natural Armor bonuses to Intelligence via Tomes of Clear Thought?
Ah, the other direction. Still, you would not get the DR, considering that DR/magic is supernatural. Plus, without some method of circumvention, you'd only have one B or two A abilities at any one time.

As to your edit, well...hmm. I'd thought that there was a general rule against this, but perhaps not. It may be expensive without mitigation/cheese, but it sounds useful. Keep in mind that it can only grant certain bonus types, however; not all types can be applied to ability scores.

You still have circumstance, competence, enhancement, insight, luck, and morale for certain. Alchemical, racial, and size bonuses are in various locations along the Maybe Continuum.

I've still this nagging feeling that it doesn't work, but I can't think of why.

Kuroimaken

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #950 on: December 18, 2009, 12:21:57 AM »
Gives you natural attacks, racial bonus feats (which all of the feat-based menu abilities are, given that ACs don't have Int scores), flight, swimming speeds, and all the goodies such as natural armor and DR.

[edit] What about using the item alteration infusion to give yourself Luck, Competence, Insight, Dodge, and even Natural Armor bonuses to Intelligence via Tomes of Clear Thought?
Ah, the other direction. Still, you would not get the DR, considering that DR/magic is supernatural. Plus, without some method of circumvention, you'd only have one B or two A abilities at any one time.

As to your edit, well...hmm. I'd thought that there was a general rule against this, but perhaps not. It may be expensive without mitigation/cheese, but it sounds useful. Keep in mind that it can only grant certain bonus types, however; not all types can be applied to ability scores.

You still have circumstance, competence, enhancement, insight, luck, and morale for certain. Alchemical, racial, and size bonuses are in various locations along the Maybe Continuum.

I've still this nagging feeling that it doesn't work, but I can't think of why.

Probably because the Tome of Clear Thought doesn't apply into any of the cathegories that would allow the infusion to work, but I'm not sure of that myself.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #951 on: December 18, 2009, 12:58:25 AM »
The only bonus types that you can't change (to or from) are sacred and profane.

As for "only one A or two B menu abilities," there are 5 HD constructs that gain extra abilities from Boost Construct. Just think about how many they get from shapers with the constructor class...
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

NeverGetDrunkButStaySober

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #952 on: December 18, 2009, 01:00:40 AM »
Not quite...but come to think of it, we are effecting a temporary change on a permanent effect. So what happens when the temporary change runs out? (This is similar to my argument on why Mirror Move + DCFS wouldn't work, though there I argued that a permanent change on a temporary effect was improper.)

NeverGetDrunkButStaySober

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #953 on: December 18, 2009, 01:06:20 AM »
The only bonus types that you can't change (to or from) are sacred and profane.
Not sure who you're responding to, but some of the bonus types do have limitations on what they can apply to. Dodge, armor, and shield, for instance, apply only to AC; resistance applies only to saving throws.

Quote
As for "only one A or two B menu abilities," there are 5 HD constructs that gain extra abilities from Boost Construct. Just think about how many they get from shapers with the constructor class...
That's not a product of the astral construct so much as the manifester making them, I'd say. The rules don't explicitly prohibit this, I suppose, but it's as suspect as shapechanging into a creature whose ability scores have been enhanced with inherent bonuses. It might fly in high TO, but anywhere else...

Kuroimaken

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #954 on: December 18, 2009, 08:49:49 AM »
Not quite...but come to think of it, we are effecting a temporary change on a permanent effect. So what happens when the temporary change runs out? (This is similar to my argument on why Mirror Move + DCFS wouldn't work, though there I argued that a permanent change on a temporary effect was improper.)

Actually, the effect is both instantaneous and permanent. This means it can't be dispelled. I believe the default for such things in D&D is to ignore the temporary effect.
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For proof, look here:

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Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #955 on: December 20, 2009, 03:56:00 PM »
Take a warforged with Item Familiar (Fist) after enhancing your warforged slam attack with a +1 enhancement bonus, then use Item Familiar to hit it with the Burning ability. Anything hit by your slam must make a Reflex save or catch fire, and it gives you a +2 to your Initiative checks. After that, add the manyfanged enhancement for 4x the damage and 4x the Reflex saves. Possibly 4x the Initiative bonuses, too.

Not as abusive as it could be, but still nice.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Prime32

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #956 on: December 20, 2009, 04:09:11 PM »
Take a warforged with Item Familiar (Fist) after enhancing your warforged slam attack with a +1 enhancement bonus, then use Item Familiar to hit it with the Burning ability. Anything hit by your slam must make a Reflex save or catch fire, and it gives you a +2 to your Initiative checks. After that, add the manyfanged enhancement for 4x the damage and 4x the Reflex saves. Possibly 4x the Initiative bonuses, too.

Not as abusive as it could be, but still nice.
"Manyfanged"? ???
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The tier system in a nutshell:
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Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #957 on: December 20, 2009, 05:00:42 PM »
Take a warforged with Item Familiar (Fist) after enhancing your warforged slam attack with a +1 enhancement bonus, then use Item Familiar to hit it with the Burning ability. Anything hit by your slam must make a Reflex save or catch fire, and it gives you a +2 to your Initiative checks. After that, add the manyfanged enhancement for 4x the damage and 4x the Reflex saves. Possibly 4x the Initiative bonuses, too.

Not as abusive as it could be, but still nice.
"Manyfanged"? ???
It's an enhancement lifted from a dagger in Serpent Kingdoms that causes the business end of the weapon to split into 4 phantom weapons, which allows your weapon to be 4x more effective. This means you get 4x the damage on any given strike.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Prime32

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #958 on: December 20, 2009, 05:38:54 PM »
Take a warforged with Item Familiar (Fist) after enhancing your warforged slam attack with a +1 enhancement bonus, then use Item Familiar to hit it with the Burning ability. Anything hit by your slam must make a Reflex save or catch fire, and it gives you a +2 to your Initiative checks. After that, add the manyfanged enhancement for 4x the damage and 4x the Reflex saves. Possibly 4x the Initiative bonuses, too.

Not as abusive as it could be, but still nice.
"Manyfanged"? ???
It's an enhancement lifted from a dagger in Serpent Kingdoms that causes the business end of the weapon to split into 4 phantom weapons, which allows your weapon to be 4x more effective. This means you get 4x the damage on any given strike.
Ah, Serpent Kingdoms, you rascal. :p
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

bearsarebrown

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Re: Do we have a dirty trick handbook?
« Reply #959 on: December 20, 2009, 05:49:42 PM »
Is there RAW to back up lifting enchantments like that? Manyfanged and Vaulting are the only one I ever seen it done on...