Tier system for templates

[Negative Zero]

The template seems to imply that the range of the mind control is only 5 miles, at the least that is definitely the range for the flayers to access your senses.  And since the template specifically indicates that there are such things as non-enslaved Voidminds, there must be a way to free yourself.

Not saying it is the best template ever, just that it is one I'm fond of.  Especially in arenas, where negative levels, ability damage, and mind affecting effects are thrown about quite a bit.

Ah, my fault. I was working from memory, and I thought that the range was unlimited.

[Agita]

I read the paragraph about seeing through the Voidmind's eyes as separate from the paragraph about domination and the paragraph about awareness of the Voidmind's condition. Thus, by my reading, there is a five-mile range on the senses, but no listed range on either of the other two. If there's a range on the domination, it's much easier to get around, but I always read the range as being unlimited.

[Ithamar]

Perhaps this:

Voidmind, Enslaved - Tier 5
Voinmind, Freed - Tier 2 (or 3)

So if you are in a higher level game and/or work it into your backstory that the illithids have been slain, you're golden.  Otherwise, the template is somewhat pointless.  Unless it is an evil campaign and being the ooze-dripping slave of psycho-squids is up your alley.

[wotmaniac]

I read the paragraph about seeing through the Voidmind's eyes as separate from the paragraph about domination and the paragraph about awareness of the Voidmind's condition. Thus, by my reading, there is a five-mile range on the senses, but no listed range on either of the other two. If there's a range on the domination, it's much easier to get around, but I always read the range as being unlimited.

I've read it this same way.

Verdict?

Unless it is an evil campaign and being the ooze-dripping slave of psycho-squids is up your alley.

then it's just disturbingly kinky.  

[Agita]

Another consideration: If there is a range on the domination and the sensing ability, then how high are the chances that the illithids would allow you to get out of its range (without heavy scrunity) in the first place? Those would be some pretty dumb illithids.

I can agree with Ith's split tier proposiion, though.

[Ithamar]

Yep, they are definitely separate paragraphs, so the dominate might be unlimited.  Interesting little conflict though, the template gives immunity to mind-affecting spells.  Dominate Monster is a mind-affecting spell.

But since the Mind Flayer Host is a (Su) ability, but every other template ability is (Ex), cast AMF on yourself, and then plot the demise of your illithid masters without them being able to do anything about it.

[Agita]

Yep, they are definitely separate paragraphs, so the dominate might be unlimited.  Interesting little conflict though, the template gives immunity to mind-affecting spells.  Dominate Monster is a mind-affecting spell.

But since the Mind Flayer Host is a (Su) ability, but every other template ability is (Ex), cast AMF on yourself, and then plot the demise of your illithid masters without them being able to do anything about it.

That's hilarious. I'm sold, provided you get a way to eliminate the bond approved. If a player tried to pull the AMF approach on me, I'd pat him on the back for creativity and say the mind flayers had it coming. Planning for AMF is just common sense.

[Endarire]

Primordial Giant is an inherited template from Secrets of Xen'drik 79.

At-will SLA: invisibility, invisibility purge, or levitate.  CL is the giant's racial HD+1.
Stats: -4 STR, -2 CON, +4 INT, +4 CHA
SQ: All SLAs are +1 CL.  This is included in the at-will SLAs.
Skills: +2 Spellcraft and UMD
Favored Class: Base Creature's AND Warlock

[bearsarebrown]

Primordial Giant is an inherited template from Secrets of Xen'drik 79.

At-will SLA: invisibility, invisibility purge, or levitate.  CL is the giant's racial HD+1.
Stats: -4 STR, -2 CON, +4 INT, +4 CHA
SQ: All SLAs are +1 CL.  This is included in the at-will SLAs.
Skills: +2 Spellcraft and UMD
Favored Class: Base Creature's AND Warlock

Must be applied to a Giant, correct?

[Ithamar]

Yep.  Half-Giants make especially good targets, or maybe Half-Ogres.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

If you can pull it off...

Incarnate Construct (Warforged with expansion used on him) has giant type and -2 LA.  Combine with primordial giant for -3 LA.

I think incarnate constructs can breed.

[Prime32]

If you can pull it off...

Incarnate Construct (Warforged with expansion used on him) has giant type and -2 LA.  Combine with primordial giant for -3 LA.

I think incarnate constructs can breed.

Primordial giant is +0 LA, not -1.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Ah, my mistake.

[bearsarebrown]

Are there any +0 Giants? I bet there is. I'm going to find it.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

that's not quite what I was getting at.  the tier of the base class would be irrelevant.

I missed the word 'feature'

now I support your idea even more

Are there any +0 Giants? I bet there is. I'm going to find it.

Untemplated? And without LA? Probably. But they will almost surely have icky RHD 

[bearsarebrown]

I was hoping Dragonlance would give me one. It didn't. I know of +1s but that's all I got 

[The_Mad_Linguist]

The only giants I know of with < 1 LA are those created via incarnate construct and a larger-than-medium size.

[snakeman830]

All right.  I updated the tiers with several more templates.  I think they're all properly placed.

[Hitoshura]

I would say Phrenic and Half-Fey would be Tier 1 with Magic in The Blood, Tier 2 without...

Hell, Phrenic is way too overpower to be at Tier 2, if i may indulge... Even without Magic in The Blood. You can find a great explanation here

[Negative Zero]

Proto-Creature from Bestiary of Krynn is a +0 LA template that has some pretty interesting changes. Notably, +4 Strength, +2 Con and Rage as a Barbarian of their HD. You lose your race's Su abilities and SLAs, but regardless, that's a pretty great template for a bruiser.

Edit: Tainted Blood Creature is not incredible, but for +1 LA it's +4 con, which would be helpful for those Arctic Mineral Warrior Dragonborn Mongrelfolk who think that they still need more con.