Author Topic: Tier system for templates  (Read 89773 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2010, 12:34:09 AM »
Yeah, it's a feat.  First level only, requires toughness as prereq.
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kevin_video

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2010, 12:34:20 AM »
Isn't Troll Blooded a feat?
Yeah, but depending on your DM they count it as a LA as well.
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TheEndIsNear

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2010, 12:53:27 AM »
Even without racial hitdice feral is tier one, its stronger than mineral warrior.

Most people can't read it properly...

bearsarebrown

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2010, 01:05:05 AM »
Isn't Troll Blooded a feat?
Yeah, but depending on your DM they count it as a LA as well.

I don't think adding random houserules would be good for a Tier system.

snakeman830

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2010, 01:06:24 AM »
Troll-Blooded is out, then.  Half-Troll, on the other hand, will make it in.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2010, 01:10:36 AM »
Even without racial hitdice feral is tier one, its stronger than mineral warrior.

Most people can't read it properly...
You mean most people don't read it in the same way you do? (including the OP, evidently) :P
[spoiler]
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...thanks
[/spoiler]

bearsarebrown

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2010, 01:31:58 AM »
To this I disagree.  PrC's have a "logical entry" that their ratings are based off of.  Templates don't.

The "logical entry" of Mineral Warrior is a Melee Tank/Heavy Hitter. The "logical entry" of a Lich is a spellcaster. You use a different word but you keep the same concept. Even we keep the current system, I would like to see a "logical entry" for each template listed.

Sometime tonight or this weekend I'll start writing up "Why X Template is in Tier X"

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2010, 02:17:30 AM »
To this I disagree.  PrC's have a "logical entry" that their ratings are based off of.  Templates don't.

The "logical entry" of Mineral Warrior is a Melee Tank/Heavy Hitter. The "logical entry" of a Lich is a spellcaster. You use a different word but you keep the same concept. Even we keep the current system, I would like to see a "logical entry" for each template listed.

Sometime tonight or this weekend I'll start writing up "Why X Template is in Tier X"

Agreed.  Magic-blooded is a bad choice for a cleric, but a good choice for a sorcerer. 
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NiteCyper

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2010, 03:47:28 AM »
Dark template for Planar Bubble/Rod of Embassy for Shadowcraft Mage.

addendum: 29-01-10, 22:50:00, else, "No Light" cantrip + stealth bonuses (Whisper Gnome, Beguiler (ShS), Chameleon template, Factotum, Incarnum stuff, Darkstalker, God-blooded (Vecna), etc.).
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 03:51:10 AM by NiteCyper »
Caveat: I edit my posts, ever and anon after.

Endarire

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2010, 04:29:34 AM »
The Arctic template is from "Dragon" 306, page 62-63.
Definitely tempting, but not a must-have.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2010, 05:12:20 AM »
The Arctic template is from "Dragon" 306, page 62-63.
Definitely tempting, but not a must-have.

Cha doesn't go to a save and someone else can party face. It is the easiest ability in the game to dump for nearly all martial characters.

TheEndIsNear

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2010, 09:49:00 AM »
Even without racial hitdice feral is tier one, its stronger than mineral warrior.

Most people can't read it properly...
You mean most people don't read it in the same way you do? (including the OP, evidently) :P

Read it RAW.

Now you read it the same way I do.

snakeman830

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2010, 09:49:44 AM »
And many non-martial.

The listing is assuming you're playing to the template's strengths, as stated in the OP.  "Logical entry" makes no sense when most templates are on the character before he takes a single class level.  Very few templates will have much of anything specific (any "logical entry would be extremely vague).

EDIT: I just read over Feral again and will be keeping it in just one location (Tier 1) for now.  Fast Healing is incredibly difficult to find on such a low LA template and very valuable, since no resources are spent healing.  Also, the type change and Natural Armor increase are very noteable.  Once you add racial HD to the mix, it just gets nuts.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 09:53:54 AM by snakeman830 »
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

TheEndIsNear

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2010, 10:07:20 AM »
There you go! Thanks OP XD

Prime32

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2010, 10:10:02 AM »
There's also the issue of whether or not you take LA when you get Lich from Dread Necromancer or Dry Lich from Walker in the Waste.

I was of the understanding that you don't, and I thought that was the general consensus on these boards, maybe I was wrong.
Yeah I have no idea about that either. Wouldn't mind knowing though.
You already have most of the lich template's abilities from your class features. Adding +4 LA for the few extra things you get doesn't make sense.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2010, 06:32:05 PM »
Quasilycantrope template (web expansion): LA +1, DR 10/silver, and you can look a little more like an animal at will.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 09:09:15 PM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Prime32

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2010, 07:58:36 PM »
Quasilyncantrope template (web expansion): LA +1, DR 10/silver, and you can look a little more like an animal at will.
Boy was that template not what I was expecting.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2010, 09:27:19 PM »
Quasilycantrope template (web expansion): LA +1, DR 10/silver, and you can look a little more like an animal at will.
I'm not finding this one.  Could you give a link?
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2010, 09:27:37 PM »
Quasilycantrope template (web expansion): LA +1, DR 10/silver, and you can look a little more like an animal at will.
I'm not finding this one.  Could you give a link?
Link's in the free stuff handbook.
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snakeman830

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2010, 09:55:55 PM »
Quasilycanthrope has been added.  Also, I added a note regarding those templates that combine monsters.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.