Author Topic: Tier system for templates  (Read 87838 times)

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Agita

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #120 on: February 09, 2010, 07:12:11 PM »
Shadow-Walker (Unapproachable East) is notable in that it allows you to enter a +2 PrC without resorting to Totemist dips or Shape Soulmeld. It also gives you scaling SLAs for +1 LA. In a game with buyoff, it's pretty good. Even without, I'd probably consider it. Probably not good enough to use outside of a Shadowlord build, though.
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NiteCyper

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #121 on: February 10, 2010, 03:12:39 AM »
I uploaded a bunch of the templates to my imageshack account. Some will be better viewed in the albums section as multiple pages.

Now that Agita mentions it, I should add that and the Chameleon template and MAYBE the Shadow template, but I don't consider it well.

[-0800 09/02/2010 Tue 22:52:15]
The deed is done: all 3 aforementioned prospects have been uploaded, yet to be tagged and--if applicable--placed into albums.

Reference(s):
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nitecyper (member since 2007-10-16) - http://profile.imageshack.us/user/nitecyper?n=y
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 03:53:47 AM by NiteCyper »
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Shadowhunter

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #122 on: February 25, 2010, 02:39:36 PM »
My (PDF) copy of Dragon Magazine 313 lists Half-Minotaurs ability adjustments as +4 str, +2 con, -2 int, +2 wis.
That's not even close to the +12 listed here.
Which is it?

Hrrm, slight threadomancy here.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #123 on: February 25, 2010, 02:43:28 PM »
My (PDF) copy of Dragon Magazine 313 lists Half-Minotaurs ability adjustments as +4 str, +2 con, -2 int, +2 wis.
That's not even close to the +12 listed here.
Which is it?

Hrrm, slight threadomancy here.

They also get the ability increases of growing a size category.

Agita

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #124 on: February 25, 2010, 02:44:40 PM »
Damned ninja bear. :P

My (PDF) copy of Dragon Magazine 313 lists Half-Minotaurs ability adjustments as +4 str, +2 con, -2 int, +2 wis.
That's not even close to the +12 listed here.
Which is it?
It also increases the base creature's size category if it's Medium or smaller, with all associated bonuses. Among those is another +8 Str.
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Shadowhunter

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #125 on: February 25, 2010, 03:22:21 PM »
Aha!

I knew there was something I was missing.
Something tells me the author didn't remember that little fact when setting the LA. :lmao
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
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Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #126 on: February 25, 2010, 03:27:58 PM »
It's actually explicitly called out in the template that the ability score increases do stack with the ones listed.

sonofzeal

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #127 on: February 25, 2010, 03:38:30 PM »
It also increases the base creature's size category if it's Medium or smaller, with all associated bonuses. Among those is another +8 Str.
Do note that that's only for when monsters go up a size category due to extra HD in their advancement listing.  It doesn't apply for other effects that change size, or Enlarge Person would be one of the most unbalanced 1st level spells ever.

Agita

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #128 on: February 25, 2010, 03:42:15 PM »
It also increases the base creature's size category if it's Medium or smaller, with all associated bonuses. Among those is another +8 Str.
Do note that that's only for when monsters go up a size category due to extra HD in their advancement listing.  It doesn't apply for other effects that change size, or Enlarge Person would be one of the most unbalanced 1st level spells ever.
Well, Enlarge Person doesn't give those bonuses because it overwrites them within its spell description.
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Surreal

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #129 on: February 25, 2010, 05:37:01 PM »
I like spellwarped when backed by a couple warlocks. I TPK'd a party once with a dungeoncrashing spellwarped minotaur being fueled by two pixie warlocks.
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Anklebite

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #130 on: February 25, 2010, 06:18:38 PM »
I like spellwarped when backed by a couple warlocks. I TPK'd a party once with a dungeoncrashing spellwarped minotaur being fueled by two pixie warlocks.
ah, I get it! link is spellwarped! we finally found the reason he keeps navi around.
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PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #131 on: February 25, 2010, 09:46:34 PM »
It also increases the base creature's size category if it's Medium or smaller, with all associated bonuses. Among those is another +8 Str.
Depending on your original size it could be more or less.

Well, Enlarge Person doesn't give those bonuses because it overwrites them within its spell description.
RAW yes, but that's sloppy editing of assuming everyone uses PHB races that are all medium...

Do note that that's only for when monsters go up a size category due to extra HD in their advancement listing.  It doesn't apply for other effects that change size, or Enlarge Person would be one of the most unbalanced 1st level spells ever.
Its a general chart used to help people figure out what happens with size changes. Its specific context was for monsters. Other things (for PCs) reference it iirc

And +8 / -2 / +4 / +2 / -1 won't save a wizard like sleep or mage armor, or shield or truestrike, etc
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Endarire

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #132 on: May 17, 2010, 02:51:36 AM »
What tier is lich if I must pay 120,000 to craft my phylactery but have no LA?
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #133 on: May 17, 2010, 03:22:12 AM »
1. It's effectively free ability and skill bonuses, some neat abilities, and the undead type. and invulnerability.

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #134 on: May 17, 2010, 07:25:14 AM »
plus, psyref in some cost reducers.
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snakeman830

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #135 on: May 17, 2010, 11:40:11 AM »
What tier is lich if I must pay 120,000 to craft my phylactery but have no LA?
Most templates go to tier 1 if the LA is waived.  There are a couple of exceptions (Vampire caps out around 2, usually, and Amphibious is already LA+0.  Voidmind just isn't worth it unless you like being the bitch of tentacles or your DM lets you be free)
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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Ithamar

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #136 on: May 17, 2010, 08:08:48 PM »
Voidmind just isn't worth it unless you like being the bitch of tentacles or your DM lets you be free)
Or you can walk around in an antimagic field all day. ;)
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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #137 on: May 19, 2010, 02:23:04 AM »
Voidmind just isn't worth it unless you like being the bitch of tentacles or your DM lets you be free)
Or you can walk around in an antimagic field all day. ;)
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Ivory Knight

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #138 on: June 09, 2010, 07:07:30 PM »
Nobody mentioned the Blooded One Template from Unapprochable East?

Pro:
+2 Str, +4 Con, -2 Int
Bonus Feat: Combat Reflexes
1/day War Cry(IIRC +1 attack for 2d6 rounds)

Con:
LA +1
-1 on attack rolls in daylight

How'd you rate it?

snakeman830

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Re: Tier system for templates
« Reply #139 on: June 09, 2010, 07:33:45 PM »
Looks like a tier 2 or 3.  The ability adjustments, bonus feat, and natural armor are decent, but it's questionable on if you're better off or even with the lost class level.  War Cry is pretty lame.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.