Vow of Poverty

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Looking up Feral, I'm not sure it would fly with my DM.  Most of the abilities including fast healing seem keyed to 'monster" HD.  Not sure if they would apply/scale to a humanoid.  And my DM is likely to not allow it.

Plus you didn't actually answer my question. (I find that non sequitors are common around here: I ask do you think x or y and someone answers z...)

Edit: Even if he did I like Mineral Warrior better for the flavor.  Goes well with a dwarf or Stoneblessed goliath and an icy stone raging bear is awesomesauce.

[McPoyo]

If you can use Feral, go Goliath. If you can't, use the dwarf.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Please qualify your recommendation. Why do you say?

Also I don't think I like Feral. I'm allergic to that much cheese and it doesn't fit the flavor I am going for.  Assuming mineral warrior for both, which one is the better build?

[McPoyo]

Please qualify your recommendation. Why do you say?

Also I don't think I like Feral. I'm allergic to that much cheese and it doesn't fit the flavor I am going for.  Assuming mineral warrior for both, which one is the better build?

The dwarf gets fast heal, although relatively minor fast heal. That's important because it lets you consistently repair damage. The extra little bit of con and str from Goliath doesn't outweigh that at all, which is really what the biggest difference is.

Oh, and move speed.

The reason I suggested Feral was because it gets fast heal 5 eventually.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Yeah I think the goliath nets an extra +2 con and +4 strength (+2 from goliath and an extra +2 when mountain raging).  so really that's an extra + 1 HP/level and + 2 attack/damage.

My Dm is fairly strict about cheesy things and I think he would interpret the Feral levels as applying only to RHD and not as a scaling effect for class HD.  I think he would take one look at it and be like cheesey, nope.

Mineral Warrior is pretty tanked with the DR, but I think with the VoP he will allow it since I won't be able to use any equipment or magic items, ever.

The dwarf build will only have a move of 20 though or 30 with FotF 1 (since I am taking pounce ACF). 


EDIT:  So it looks like this build is unattainable since all the relevant prestige classes require at least a BAB of +4 or higher and Barb 1 and cleric 1 are the only base classes, netting only a BAB of +1...

[carnivore]

... you are taking a VOP... why not consider the Saint Template:

Saint TemplateFast Healing (Ex):

[fuinjutsu]

Heh, VOP Saint Incarnate.  Fun times.  Winter Mask + Golden Ice + Vow of non-violence + Holy Power = Gorramit STOP TOUCHING ME.   

[something random]

Heh, VOP Saint Incarnate.  Fun times.  Winter Mask + Golden Ice + Vow of non-violence + Holy Power = Gorramit STOP TOUCHING ME.   

Winter mask is a Totemist soulmeld and while a Incarnate could gain the ability to use it though a feat so could so could any character so why would you do this as a Incarnate istead of a Totemist

[Ithamar]

If you really want the VoP Bear Warrior type feel, consider the PHB II Druid Shapeshift variant.  Be a Goliath, take at least 8 levels of Shapeshift Druid, then dip into Warshaper for 2 levels, maybe 1 level of Fist of the Forest, and then the rest all Druid.  You can just stay in bear form all day long.

Shapeshifting completely absorbs your items, but who cares since you're using VoP?  If you need to fly, just change into a bird form, or better yet, cast Master Air.

At level 8 your Shapeshifting increases you by 1 size category, but you've still got your powerful build, so you count as Huge.  So have fun grappling, or tripping or whatever.

Take the Surrogate Spellcasting feat from Savage Species so that you can still cast spells while you are shapeshifted.  You automatically qualify for the feat since you are not a humanoid (and I'm sure your WIS would be high enough).

Sure you're not as "powerful" as the traditional Saint VoP Druid, but you're still pretty darn high up on the power curve.

[jojolagger]

Take the Surrogate Spellcasting feat from Savage Species so that you can still cast spells while you are shapeshifted.  You automatically qualify for the feat since you are not a humanoid (and I'm sure your WIS would be high enough).

or just take natural spell.

[Ithamar]

According to PHBII, Natural Spell specifically does not work with Shapeshifting.

[weenog]

First thought is to be a Goliath, Barb 1 (Pounce, mountain rage),

Nope.  Goliath Barbarian 1 does not gain Fast Movement, and therefore can't lose Fast Movement for a spiritual totem ability.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Anyway, the best way to abuse VoP is to gain it from a class bonus feat, level to the max in grayguard, and start with the smackdown.

Yeah, I've sworn a vow of poverty and a vow of peace.  But technically speaking, this weaponry belongs to my god, and I've found few things less peaceful than a corpse.

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

I was tinkering with a build idea for the Neverending Dungeon, though I''ll never execute it. It''s similar, but IMO by far better than the other build, although my feelings about Bear Warrior are less than fuzzy and warm. Plus Bears are okay... MEGARAPTORS ON THE OTHER HAND! Here it is:

Dragonborn Changeling
Fighter 2/ Barbarian (Lion Totem) 2/ Warshaper 4/ Deepwarden 1/ Primeval (Megaraptor) 1/ Fist of the Forest 1/ Deepwarden 1

Initially it was a Gestalt class, so Barb was lvl 1, An I had Monk 1 there too, For IUS and PA... I think Pre-Reqs are still achievable with flaws.
Racial Emulation, gets you into Deepwarden.

If Saint is in fact an option for you, I might not agree with taking this. Maybe swapping out Barbarian 2 + Warshaper 4 (Saint Fast Healing is WAY better) for Monk 2, for Con*2 and Wis*2 to AC... Yeah, that''d likely be the best way to go...

[jojolagger]

Anyway, the best way to abuse VoP is to gain it from a class bonus feat, level to the max in grayguard, and start with the smackdown.

Yeah, I've sworn a vow of poverty and a vow of peace.  But technically speaking, this weaponry belongs to my god, and I've found few things less peaceful than a corpse.

Love that trick. Combine it with lots of hidden pockets and good slight of hand. You can pull a longsword out of thin air and say it's from your god.


"Let's beat up that guy who swore a vow of peace."
"Interesting, Pelor has given me a sword. Only one way to interpret his will in this case."
Goes Clericzilla on them

This also works, and saves 10 levels.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Woah, I'd completely forgotten about that feat.

Nice find.

[jojolagger]

Nice find.

Not my find, I'm just spreading the word from Amechra.

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Nice find.

+1. And a cookie to anyone involved with finding, and/or passing it on. Chocolate chip...

[Benly]

Does Heretic Of The Faith technically work on VoP, though? It's not exactly "your deity's code of conduct" unless all clerics/paladins/whateveryouare of your god take vows of poverty.

[jojolagger]

Does Heretic Of The Faith technically work on VoP, though? It's not exactly "your deity's code of conduct" unless all clerics/paladins/whateveryouare of your god take vows of poverty.

AS stated for grey guard, get VoP via Class bonus Feats. That was it falls under "Class abilities".