Author Topic: OOC Chatter  (Read 30814 times)

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Tshern

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #80 on: November 22, 2008, 07:00:30 AM »
How are we doing buffs like GMW?  Tshern, are you just going to cast them on us prior to battle or what?
Like Kaelik said. I am chaining GMW and Magic vestment to everyone at an annoying CL of 19. I found a way to get that up to 20. If I take one more level of Paragnostic Apostle and take Divine understanding, I would gain that +1 to either GMW or Magic vestment, but I don't think it's worth it.

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Kaelik

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #81 on: November 22, 2008, 07:39:30 AM »
1) We'll level soon enough. Don't worry about it.

2) Silk Steel armor? And where is that from? Why are you trying to kill me?

3) Yeah, 5000gp for a stacking +4 str that would normally cost 16000gp. Plus reach and size. For negative money. Also, why is your Ring of Invis 10,000. Should be 20.

Tshern

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #82 on: November 22, 2008, 08:22:15 AM »
We also have some protection against scry 'n' die, since all teleports happening within 95ft of me are going to be delayed for three rounds. Hopefully this doesn't backfire.

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Prak, the Mad

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #83 on: November 22, 2008, 09:11:28 AM »
Did you spend money to get that? Is it an actual +5 or a +5 equivalent?

If you have a +1 Wounding whatever claw, that's cool.

But if it's a +5, then just drop it, get a +4 to everything from GMW, and spend all that money on something else.

Where's you Sheet? What are your saves? WHat do you actually need? A Str enhancer?
Character sheet's here

They're straight +5s, and as my character has Huge size... I don't think he needs a str enhancer, though I wouldn't say no, act. str is 30, regardless of whether he's walking around as a medium creature or hulked out.

Kaelik

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #84 on: November 22, 2008, 10:07:41 AM »
Yeah, Don't spend a cent on those, Chained GMW.

woodenbandman

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #85 on: November 22, 2008, 12:24:17 PM »
Asks for 4k to buy items beneficial to party.

Jaggyd

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #86 on: November 22, 2008, 03:24:17 PM »
Asks for 4k to buy items beneficial to party.

I'll cover you - last I checked, there's some extra cash left over.
Since you guys are on the ball with the magic-y stuff, all I really need to concentrate on is... "ok, armour: check! sword: check! flavour: check!" :P

woodenbandman

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #87 on: November 22, 2008, 03:58:18 PM »
Thanks Jaggyd, now we've got the monocle, we've got the cell phones, I just need to figure out some fucking buffs to persist... I get 2 or 3 per day, you know.

EDIT: That reminds me, should I drop the persisting since it seems we already have that part covered? If so what should I drop my feats into? I can probably put some into improving my binding skills, or I could take some other metamagic. What should I do? Buffs, yay or nay?

Ubernoob

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #88 on: November 22, 2008, 04:15:51 PM »
Belt of reduce person at will sounds fine for 5k.  Reduce person has enough drawbacks that it shouldn't be hard to get.
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Judging Eagle

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #89 on: November 22, 2008, 11:12:36 PM »
1) We'll level soon enough. Don't worry about it.

2) Silk Steel armor? And where is that from? Why are you trying to kill me?

3) Yeah, 5000gp for a stacking +4 str that would normally cost 16000gp. Plus reach and size. For negative money. Also, why is your Ring of Invis 10,000. Should be 20.

2) Silk Steel is from Races of War, full plate for moving silently and hiding in.

I don't see how you think I'm trying to kill you. I'd personally reserve such a judgment call until I actually attacked you and dealt enough Con damage to kill you in one round, or interrupted your spell casting and then attempts to run away from a monster in the same round. Then you could say something like that.

Really, I'll probably do something stupid. Such pull out my tower sheild out, and charge something that Serase attacked that has decided to take in a Rogueish hors'doeuvre.

Hopefully the fact that the ranged damage character has 20%-ish more  hit points and heavier armour than the melee damage character should keep us both alive for someone else to save us both, but I'm crossing my fingers.

In reality, I've taken some really large and stupid risks with Merhault in the past, fortunately they're things like: "intercept the Wartroll (at ... level 7) so that the rogue doesn't bite it, and hope that Jagged pulls my shit from out of the fire" not "Try to kill the party wizard."

I've always been a big fan of the idea "no one gets left behind". Even my more evil characters get grief-stricken when a party member dies. Mostly b/c I get grief-stricken, but that's what happens when you get into your character's skin and use your own point of view as their psychological compass.

3) 5k for an item that:

A) Takes a full round action to activate, just an FYI.

B) Screws over 1/4 of my character's key abilities [Hiding, Knowing, Ranged Attacks, Melee Crowd Control], and 1/2 of my charcters combat options [Ranged Attacks, Melee Crowd Control]

I can't hide when I'm big. Also, Ranged attacks will probably be a waste of time.

C) Halves my damage per attack.

Seeing as Merhault currently deals 1d2+28 damage with his ranged attacks, and 1d6+14 with his melee attacks; I have no clue why you care so much about attacking in melee, when doing so halves my potential damage per attack.

If you really don't want me to halve my raw damage, that's cool. I just figured that the party would benefit from the character with .... 11 Attacks of Opportunity (6 from attacks, 5 from dex) being able to dish out Con damage to anything that moves towards the party.

D) Only increases my Reach by 30%



Lulz, no point arguing, I'll just buy a headband of Persuasion and just buy and UMD wands and/or scrolls. I have access to a wider range and more powerful spells now. Thanks for making me try harder Kaelik. I tend to take the lazy option unless pressured, with pressure I look closer, work harder, perform better.

Updated my gear list post as well. Tightened everything up. Also made sure that Merhault//Innards can UMD all of his purchased scrolls sutomatically (UMD modifier with Scrolls of +26, so Clvl 7 scrolls and up).

[Note: If anyone has any scrolls that they want cast to free up either their own actions or to have more buffs cast on them, I've got a +26 modifier with scrolls, so any spells lvl 4 and down could be handed my way. Right now I know that Jagged might be buying some scrolls of Greater Invisibility to give her 2 50% miss chances (for really tough fights). Of course.... true seeing would still be a problem. =/]

For Persistable Buffs.... what spells can you get access to beside straight Cleric ones?

Overall, something like Prayer is pretty good.

Also, if you burn a 1st level slot on Deathknell, you'll have all of the caster levels that you'll ever need.

I reccomend that you sacrifice a bunch of chickens, then we have a pre-op snack of roast chicken.


Nm, wizard spells.... wow, that's a whole can of worms. I'm assuming that you've used Secret Page to turn your random doodles into any spell that you want?

Honestly I'm not sure what to suggest. Checking out the Persistable spells builds on the 3.5 WoTC forums could work.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 11:25:24 PM by Judging Eagle »
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Ubernoob

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #90 on: November 22, 2008, 11:25:16 PM »
Just noticed I misread.  Here are your options:
1) Permanancy enlarge person and get a belt of at will reduce person
2) Buy fucking dorjes of expansion/compression.  They aren't that expensive and you can even get them partly charged (10 charges for 1/5th the cost of a full dorje).
3) Get someone to cast greater enlarge person (SC) so you can be enlarged all day
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Judging Eagle

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #91 on: November 22, 2008, 11:51:15 PM »
Bought a wand of enlarge//reduce, added headband of persuasion to my headgear, added a cloak of cha to my cloak.

Also bought some more scrolls.

I had UMD the whole time, and a +20-ish modifier. I just wasn't using it.

If Kaelik had let it go I probably still wouldn't have used my maxed ranks in the skill.

Which is very un-CO, but meh. I figured that I'd be fine.

I've got 253 gp left that I'm spending on stuff like:
  • 200' of silk rope (can anyone who has spare coin grab some? it's 10 gp per 50', and I've been in adventures where the DM doesn't realize that the group had over 700' of the stuff. It's very handy)
  • Pitons (don't need hammers, I've got ... 6!)
  • don't need an everburning torch, since I've got Darkvision from my dwarf belt
  • can't think of much else.
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Kaelik

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #92 on: November 23, 2008, 12:12:15 AM »
1) Yes Silk Steel is from Races of War, it's also several hundred times better then the Armor I am wearing. Again. Just like everything else you keep bringing in.

2) It takes a full round action to activate something with a duration of minutes and infinite uses? Excuse me while I don't care. Infinite uses means always active.

3) It halves your attack damage? a) How the fuck does it do that? does -2 dex seriously decrease damage buy ten? b) So what, it gives you reach, several more attacks and you have con damage on all your attacks. I don't care if you change size, but if you want to pay 5000gp to get permanent first level spells, I want my permanent invisibility for 5000gp.

Ubernoob

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #93 on: November 23, 2008, 01:29:13 AM »
Note that I'm not allowing an item of enlarge person at will.
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Judging Eagle

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #94 on: November 23, 2008, 01:33:40 AM »
1) You're wearing a  Mithril Chain Shirt [417]

Use the RoW rules for that armour. As for several hundred times better....

You don't have heavy armour proficiencey, so the fact that my character, who does have heavy armour proficiency and is wearing heavier armour, while yours doesn't have heavy armour prof. and doesn't wear it shouldn't be a big deal.

You only spent 417 gp on your armour. While I spent 2,700 for what is essentially fancy full plate. I'd hope that my armour is at least five times better than what you're using. Since I spent five times more for my armour. If you think otherwise, I'd like to know why, and also know if you think that a light mace should deal as much damage and have as wide a crit range as a greatsword.

Also you spent 417 gp on your mithirl chain shirt? Sorry to call the pot black, but mithril's about +5,000 gp for light armour. The price is in the DMG, just like Jagged is paying 11,500 k for her adamantine armour.

2) No big deal, I've got a wand of Enlarge Person with 50 charges now. That should be enough for the whole campaign, and it only cost 750 gp, and freed up over 4,250 gp for more wands and scrolls. I actually have to thank you for that. If you hadn't forced me to re-evaluate the cost of my gear and be more frugal, I would have ignored the fact that I can UMD spells.

3) My character relies on Blitz + Point Blank Shot to deal damage with his//its ranged attacks. The feats allow you to apply your BaB as bonus damage with certain types of attacks, with certain limitations. So, with ranged attacks, Merhault//Innards deals 1dtiny+28 damage [base, before magic].

With actual melee attacks, Merhault//Innards can only use Blitz, so 1d6+14 damage [base, before magic].

Also, it doesn't give me more attacks. I've got my attacks from two weapon fighting, my 11 attacks of opportunity are from BaB, TWF and High dex.

As for reach, it only gives me 50% more of it. I've got 20 feet of reach as a medium sized creature.

Yes, twenty feet of reach. As a medium sized creature.

That's twice what a large creature normally has.

That's more than a huge creature has.

Seriously, it's a requirement when meleeing shit like Hezrous or Cloud Giants or . My character could be expected to deal with as many as 2 Hezrou demons on his own in melee range; probably three times that if every PC gets their own pair of Brass-Frog-Shoveller-Blasphemy-Spamming Demons. Yes, I'm serious, 6 Hezrou demons, Jagged would probably have to tank the other 6.

We have 6-ish PCs, and Hezrous are CR 11 each; two is CR 13; so each of us need to be able to utterly curb-stomp things lower than our CR.

In fact, this character can five-foot step their way towards a gargantuan creature and always get attacks. I don't know why you think that's a bad thing. Hopefully when I kill something that is trying to charge towards you that you will not have so much hate for my character.

Really, that's the best that this character can do. The best thing that they can do is "kill things that want to melee the party". It's not "be a spellcaster" and it's not "deal retarded melee damage."

And yes, I'm serious, I'm planning for us needing to fight swarums (no, not a typo) of Greater Water Elementals. Since they're only CR 11, we will probably have to face 14 if them and it will only be "very difficult"; even 20 of them is "very difficult."

We could also be facing 36 HD Elder Water elementals (base HD 25, each +4 HD = +1 CR; +12 HD = +3 CR) that are CR 14. We could have to face 7 of those. If there's an 8th we'd be in those 1 in 20 fights that is considered "overwhelming."

And yes, I am being all doom and gloom, but guess what? I've seriously had those types of encounters and I've lived through them. I plan on making a character that will live though more such encounters.

In any case, I don't see why you're complaining so much about 30 feet of reach when I've already got more reach than a Cloud Giant. Without being large.

Finally, a Permanent Greater Invis item starts at....
Continous Action Item = 2,000 * Spell level * Caster level

2,000 * (Spell level 4) * (Caster level 7)
=2,000 * 4 * 7
=2,000 * 28
=56,000

Spell Duration Greater Invis: 1/round per Caster level (multiply cost by four)

= 224,000

That's the estimated value of such an itemm, 224,000 gp. Which is obviously the same as as 5,000 gp.

Since 50% miss chance, +2 to-hit, hitting flat-footed AC and having a +40 to your hide checks (+20 when moving) is the same as being twice as tall and weight 8 times more.


Finally, I don't see you griping that the barbarian and rogue will outdamage nearly everyone (my fighter included). Seriously, you're a spell caster, you can sit back and screw up enemies of nearly any CR just by casting Web. I'm putting together a character that has a few really strong abilities to bring to the table, but they're pretty much set in stone, and enemies can negate quite a lot of them.

Seriously, let's save this all until we've had our trial by fire (first combat).
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 01:41:22 AM by Judging Eagle »
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Psychic Robot

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #95 on: November 23, 2008, 02:14:24 AM »
So are we going to get this expedition started or what?  The casters are basically in charge of where we go, given the fact that they have the buffs that allow rogues to function on other planes.

Kaelik

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #96 on: November 23, 2008, 02:23:38 AM »
1) Yes, there are Races of War rules for better armor. But I didn't use them because I was told no fucking Tome Shit of any kind. See, some people created their characters under certain guidelines so when you just stealth add every damn Tome rule without saying anything to anyone it's fucking annoying. Did you ask if Tome Armors were okay? How do you price Tome Armors, since they don't have listed Prices anywhere.

You are getting 4 more AC, the exact same max dex, and a bunch of other crap tied to your BAB or ranks in Hide or whatever. So I fucking crafted my Mithril Chain Shirt, and so it's cheaper. But you know fucking what, it costs +1000gp for Light Mithril Armor, I know this because unlike your armor, it has a listed price. So how about before quoting the DMG to me, you actually fucking read it.

2) So what about being large prevents you from making ranged attack again? Oh right, nothing. What you do is make your same damned range attacks and then get several other AoO that you wouldn't otherwise have had, thus giving you more attacks in a given round then you otherwise would.

But this does bring up some other stealth Tome inserts you've done: BAB rules, I assume Power Attack and Grapple rules too. So what happens when an Elemental tries to grapple me using the real rules, and then you initaite a grab or whatever and then hell goes to Baator in a hand basket because you aren't playing by the same rules as everyone else, including the DM.

3) Shut the fuck up! Seriously, I've asked you several times to stop talking to me like I'm retarded. I know what fucking CR is, I know what we are likely to face, I know these things because I an not a fucking retard. Stop talking down to me. Casters are so fucking great? Then why don't you fucking play one instead of dragging 800 fucking rules that completely change the game without saying anything to anyone about it.

When I asked if it was a fucking Tome game I was told hell no, so I made a fucking non-Tome character. When you are told it's not a Tome game you say:

Well what about just the class? And the feats? And the Armor? And some of these rules? And some of these? And let's just use the Wish economy too. Oh wait, there's actually nothing from the Tomes that I haven't suggested we use or inserted myself without asking? Well fucking Cock Balls, tough luck for all those people who fucking actually understand the word no.

Jaggyd

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #97 on: November 23, 2008, 02:33:33 AM »
Pretendy fun time games?

Jeagle, that could have been said in as few words as; "I'm not trying to out-shine the party members, just trying to contribute/pull my weight."

Kaelik, I don't mean to sound bitchy/condecending/etc, but, just breathe, man.
Most of us are here to try out different concepts/builds ideas. (I'm here to get my RP on, and for my barbarian to get her froth on with a specialized build because Jeagle is much better at the CO stuff than I am =P). I'm fairly certain that Jeagle isn't trying to stomp all over everyone else.
Also, Uber seems like a pretty cool dude, I'm sure if you ask nicely, you'll be able to tinker around with your character after giving him a try out. In a seemingly high-magic setting like this, it'd be easy to RP a way around it, with the "fluxes in magic" and whatnot.

And, heck yaw, Psychic. I'm ready when you all are. ^_^

Kaelik

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #98 on: November 23, 2008, 02:55:09 AM »
I'm not accusing him of trying to outshine people, or being an evil spiteful person. I am accusing him, correctly, of stealth adding rules to the game in ways that confuse other people and cheat others of the same benefits. He effectively has free Combat Reflexes, and Grab and several other things. Hell I can get an 8th level spell always on by using a Tome Armor, but no one except the people who have the fucking balls to outright ignore what our DM said:

Quote from: ubernoob
For the purposes of my game consider tome rules to not replace things unless you ask first.

Get to have that benefit.

So yeah, when you never ask about anything but fucking switch in Tome rules all the time, that fucks over everyone who can actually read.

Ubernoob

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Re: OOC Chatter
« Reply #99 on: November 23, 2008, 02:58:10 AM »
Just to be very clear:
I've only allowed tome classes and feats so far.  Seriously, anything beyond that explicitly requires my permission to use.
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