Ghostly Generalist

[Havok4]

I am kicking around an idea for my next character as my shapshifter idea is looking less attractive from a bookkeeping standpoint. So I was thinking of playing a ghost instead, more specificly a savage progression ghost starting at ECL 3. I might be able to take a level of the savage progression every 3 character levels and buying it off as rapidly as I can, I need to talk to the DM about that. All sources are available and I think we are starting with a 32 point buy. Also I plan on making the character good aligned but a bit creepy.

 I was also planning on making the character be a sort of generalist character being able to shift roles as needed. This gives me a couple of options but the ones that appeal to me are either a factotum/chameleon or a Binder, The issue with the factotum chameleon build is that it would be rather MAD but the skill use and varied spellcasting. The Binder option is pretty SAD on charisma especially if I go into knight of the sacred seal. If I go the binder route I would likely take master of the unseen hand as well to make really effective use of the telekinesis ability, with additional use of the malevolence ability at later levels if I can use buyoff. Any recommendations on what classes to take and how to make an effective character from low levels would be welcome.

I also have a few questions I am having some trouble figuring out.
1. How does the ghostly grasp fea (LMt interact with a ghosts ethereal nature? If I pick up an item does it come with me to the ethereal plane when I demanifest or does it drop in place on the material plane. I think the feat makes it so armor I wear affects material attacks and allows me to attack normally with weapons on the material plane without the need for magical weapons, is this correct?

2. Just to verify,  a ghost can use his strength score to make attacks on the material plane correct?

3. Is the correct way of accounting for an undead being created in a desecrated area to just factor out the cost of the spell being cast from your WBL? So assuming a 3 level caster being created in a desecrated zone would cost 85 total.

[Lycanthromancer]

Go venerable gray elf. You lose -6 to Dex and gain +5 to Int, +3 to Wis, and +7 to Cha.

Not too horrible, right?

[Havok4]

I still need my strength score to carry things and do melee attacks, Ghosts are weird in that they have a strength score although they can become incorporeal when manifested. I was actually leaning towards human for the bonus feat and skill point which would be useful in either of the builds I am considering.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Ghosts: So complicated there's an article dealing with how to adjucate them:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041012a

[Havok4]

Thank you for that.
So with ghostly grasp I could pick up items and take them back to the ethereal plane with me. And due to the wording of the feat I would be able to use them as corporeal creature would. Which means I could apply my str bonus to the attack, and I could wear armor which would provide defense against normal attacks (I think). Does this seem right?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I think so, yeah.

[Havok4]

Okay then, hopefully that bit of confusion in cleared up. This method is actually much cooler sounding then the other ways to interpret the rules. As my character could phase into reality in as suit of armor animated by my restless spirit and proceed to kick butt and then vanish leaving nothing behind. I see synergies with Savnok in the early game if I go binder.

The binder route is looking more appealing as it is mainly SAD and gives me a nice array of bizarre supernatural powers. The build I would likely go for is the following assuming the buyoff strategy works. Also this is one of the few times when the savage species type pyramid is actually useful due to the KotSS 10 level ability.

Binder 5/ MotUH 4/KotSS 5(?)/ Binder 6. I am at a loss tonight for what vestiges would be best for this build. I basically see him using his telekinetic animated sword to do melee attacks while using SU abilities to mess with enemies or getting sources of bonus damage and violent thrusting various weapons at enemies. The build will be very flexible in combat as far as I can tell. Also malevolence would be fun to make use of with the various melee focused vestiges. Fear effects might be useful to build into this character and it would fit with the whole ghost standard mode of operation.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

There are a few variant ghost abilities as well (some in libris mortis, some in monsters of faerun, and I think one in frostfell).  They're marginally cool, depending on whether or not you'd call them major or minor abilities.

[Havok4]

Those abilities are quite neat, but not nearly as neat as telekinesis and magic jar.

[Havok4]

Okay I think I have settled on the Binder based build. The ability spread will be Str14,Dex14, Con 8, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 16.

Feats are as follows.
1. Ghostly Grasp
1H. Improved Binding
3.Weapon Focus (Something that is good for throwing around with telekinesis)
4B.Expel Vestige
6. Imperious Command (Also pick up never outnumbered at this level)
9. Flyby Attack
12.Sudden Ability Focus
15.
18.
19B. Ignore Special Requirements

Does anyone have an idea for what would make a good patron vestige and what would fit the 15 and 18 level feats?

[Lycanthromancer]

Avoid Weapon Focus unless you're trying to qualify for something really good. If you want a +1, find some other way to get it, such as buying a pearl of power for a magic weapon spell that you can bum off an ally.

[dna1]

Anyone use the Ghostwalk stuff??? Whats the main diff between the Ghostwalk stuff, SS progression, and the MM stuff?

[snakeman830]

Avoid Weapon Focus unless you're trying to qualify for something really good. If you want a +1, find some other way to get it, such as buying a pearl of power for a magic weapon spell that you can bum off an ally.

It's a prerequisite for Knight of the Sacred Seal (which is a pretty good PrC).

[Havok4]

Avoid Weapon Focus unless you're trying to qualify for something really good. If you want a +1, find some other way to get it, such as buying a pearl of power for a magic weapon spell that you can bum off an ally.

It's a prerequisite for Knight of the Sacred Seal (which is a pretty good PrC).

That is what it is used for. KotSS is very good for a cha focused character, although I still cannot decide what vestige to use as my patron, I am hoping to make it a level 4 or lower vestige so I can get the prc earlier.

[Lycanthromancer]

Weapon Focus (Monk). Then take a level in psychic warrior for the call weapon power. Use it to summon a monk to die fight for you. Even better with the soulbound variant, especially if you use it to...ahem...search for traps.

[Havok4]

That oddly enough will not work as monks are not items, unless it is a ghost touch monk. Also that is not the direction I want this character to go. Although having minions to telekineticly throw at people could be fun.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

That oddly enough will not work as monks are not items, unless it is a ghost touch monk. Also that is not the direction I want this character to go. Although having minions to telekineticly throw at people could be fun.

Well, it's pretty simple.

Get a dread necromancer in the party, have him planar bind, kill, and reanimate a nightmare.

Then beat people up with a dead horse.

[Havok4]

A hilarious and very punny idea. But outside the scope of my characters most unfortunately.

Any advice on what vestiges would be good. Teneberous looks like it might be useful generally, as does Acererak for the paralyzing touch. If I make use of Teneberous I can pick up some divine feats to help bolster my defenses.

[Lycanthromancer]

That oddly enough will not work as monks are not items, unless it is a ghost touch monk. Also that is not the direction I want this character to go. Although having minions to telekineticly throw at people could be fun.

Monks' bodies are considered weapons, so that would be fair game for call weaponry, though you probably couldn't wield one yourself. Hurling him around with telekinesis would certainly be entertaining, however.

[Endarire]

I found it ironic that, last session, an earth elemental used the party's monk as a projectile and, upon impact, autokilled me.