Brainstorming Fixes for Special Attacks

[Psychic Robot]

So I need help.  I really like what Pathfinder did with the special attacks  by using the "combat maneuver bonus" and putting everything into a single roll.  However, I just realized that the fix I was working on was a moldering piece of shit that didn't work in the math department.

Therefore, I require help.

You see, my biggest complaint with the CMB system is that it disregards actually attacking the target, if I'm reading it correctly.  That means that the clumsy oaf giant will pretty much always succeed on his CMB checks against the waif pixie.  And while I'm okay with this, I'm not okay with the clumsy oaf giant disregarding the waif pixie's natural agility: how the fuck is he hitting her when she's got an AC of like 500?

This irritates me, and I won't be happy until I fix it.  My current solution is to roll a touch attack and then roll CMB, but I really like the "single roll" aspect of it.

My questions to the other BGers:

1. Am I being too anal retentive?
2. Is what I suggested simple enough as-is?
3. Do you have any suggestions on how to make this work more smoothly?

Thank ye in advance, fellow gamers.

[Elennsar]

I have not seen the system in question (link?), but my thoughts on your suggestion.

1) No.

2) I think so.

3) Not until I look over the system.

[Sunic_Flames]

CMB means the DC is 15 + something. I forget what that something is, but it means you have a 30% chance of getting it to actually work. Combine that with the fact they removed the ways of taking it off the action economy, and the result is that special maneuvers are wastes of actions. After all, if something only has 30% accuracy it damn well better be an instant kill or similar scope.

[Psychic Robot]

CMB means the DC is 15 + something. I forget what that something is, but it means you have a 30% chance of getting it to actually work. Combine that with the fact they removed the ways of taking it off the action economy, and the result is that special maneuvers are wastes of actions. After all, if something only has 30% accuracy it damn well better be an instant kill or similar scope.

DC 15 + opponent's BAB + Strength modifier + size modifier.  You use your BAB + Strength mod + size modifier to hit that.  It really just depends on the opponent, I suppose.  What if the DC was lowered?

[Ubernoob]

DC needs to be lowered to 10+bonuses at bare minimum so it's not less effective than the PHB mechanic.

[GawainBS]

I also have a problem with the inclusion of STR & size modifier. PR's pixie example is excellent why this is so. Reminds me of my DM disarming a flying kobold of its spellcomponent pouch with a Huge Skeleton, which go bonuses because it was big & strong.  :rolleyes
So, maybe for certain manouvres size modifiers count reversed and you use DEX?

[smug]

I also have a problem with the inclusion of STR & size modifier. PR's pixie example is excellent why this is so. Reminds me of my DM disarming a flying kobold of its spellcomponent pouch with a Huge Skeleton, which go bonuses because it was big & strong.  :rolleyes
So, maybe for certain manouvres size modifiers count reversed and you use DEX?

There's a CMB equivalent of weapon finesse, I think. Or there ought to be. That's not going to fix it, though, of course.

[GawainBS]

Not that I know of. Setting Sun manouvres do this to an extent, though.

[smug]

Not that I know of. Setting Sun manouvres do this to an extent, though.

Agile Maneuvers allows Dex for CMB, which is what I meant. Doesn't do anything for size mods.

[Arquebuz]

Where is "agile manuevers"? Sounds like the feat of my dreams!
Oh.  Pathfinder.  Right. 
Interesting trade-offs. 

[Arquebuz]

My group has been experimenting with a hybrid for the last few sessions: CMB as written in Pathfinder, but Improved feats as in 3.5.  Feels a little more balanced than one or the other on it's own, though my tripaholic monk is a bit nerfed.