1,067,212 attacks in a single action

[EjoThims]

Natural Abilities

This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature. Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like.

Relevant part is 'includes abilities.' Not 'includes everything.'

Everything is one of those kinds of abilities.

Wrong.

Every ability is one of those kinds of abilities. There are things that exist which are not abilities. Like swords. What I am wondering is, is there anywhere that defines the form of a creature as an ability, or is it more like a sword.

There really shouldn't be any discussion about it

Correct, because Fusion is being ignored for this exercise because when you use it, it's easily capable of far outshining the general goal of the exercise while ignoring all of the other minor details.

because it is pretty clear as to what you get: everything that both creatures get. If both of you have abilities that overlap, you get the better of the two.

That's not clear at all. The dominant creature's form could show through, or the manifestor's, or it could be a blend, or a random mix, or even something unrelated triggered by the mixing of the blah blah blah. All are equally valid, because, unless form is an ability, the rules make absolutely no mention of how to determine the form of the fused creature.

And no, I'm not trying to make you mad.

[Callix]

You gain the other creature's racial abilities. Su, Sp, Ps, Ex, and Natural. I don't see what's confusing about this.

Whether or not physical form is in an ability in the rules sense of the word.

See:

Natural Abilities

This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature. Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like.

Everything is one of those kinds of abilities. Those that aren't Ex, Su, Sp, or Ps are Natural. That means that any and everything that it's possible to put in a stat block is an ability. You basically have two choices for types of abilities gained: through class or race. There really aren't any others. Fusion specifies that you get both.

There really shouldn't be any discussion about it, because it is pretty clear as to what you get: everything that both creatures get. If both of you have abilities that overlap, you get the better of the two.

Proficiencies obviously aren't Su, Sp or Ps, as they work in an AMF. They aren't marked (Ex) in the monster manuals. And proficiency with a sword is not an ability "a creature has because of its physical nature", as it is learned. So is proficiency somehow nonexistent? Or are there aspects of your character that aren't abilities?

[Lycanthromancer]

They're feats (Weapon Proficiency: X), which are Extraordinary, unless they're Su, Sp, or Ps (such as [Psionic] feats).

[AfterCrescent]

They're feats (Weapon Proficiency: X), which are Extraordinary, unless they're Su, Sp, or Ps (such as [Psionic] feats).

While there are weapon proficiency feats, not all proficiencies are feats. But that's neither here nor there.

My question at this point, is does any D&D 3.5 book specify that a creature/object's form is a natural (or any other kind of) ability? Because without that, it can be argued both ways.

[Callix]

They're feats (Weapon Proficiency: X), which are Extraordinary, unless they're Su, Sp, or Ps (such as [Psionic] feats).

In that case, Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle is truly obscene. Anyone with "all simple and martial weapons" can get 49 additional feats and retain a melee weapon and a ranged weapon. If we dumped those all into Toughness, that's 267 HP, and that's one of the worst uses of the feats.

[skydragonknight]

They're feats (Weapon Proficiency: X), which are Extraordinary, unless they're Su, Sp, or Ps (such as [Psionic] feats).

In that case, Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle is truly obscene. Anyone with "all simple and martial weapons" can get 49 additional feats and retain a melee weapon and a ranged weapon. If we dumped those all into Toughness, that's 267 HP, and that's one of the worst uses of the feats.

Conservatively, only the ones that are spelled out(like elf's racial weapon proficiency) count as feats. I forget the whole argument though.

[Lycanthromancer]

They're feats (Weapon Proficiency: X), which are Extraordinary, unless they're Su, Sp, or Ps (such as [Psionic] feats).

In that case, Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle is truly obscene. Anyone with "all simple and martial weapons" can get 49 additional feats and retain a melee weapon and a ranged weapon. If we dumped those all into Toughness, that's 267 HP, and that's one of the worst uses of the feats.

Simple Weapon Proficiency grants proficiency in all simple weapons.

The fact that the DCFS is broken anyway has no relevance to this conversation.

[Callix]

They're feats (Weapon Proficiency: X), which are Extraordinary, unless they're Su, Sp, or Ps (such as [Psionic] feats).

In that case, Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle is truly obscene. Anyone with "all simple and martial weapons" can get 49 additional feats and retain a melee weapon and a ranged weapon. If we dumped those all into Toughness, that's 267 HP, and that's one of the worst uses of the feats.

Simple Weapon Proficiency grants proficiency in all simple weapons.

The fact that the DCFS is broken anyway has no relevance to this conversation.

Wizards don't have Simple Weapon Proficiency, but have proficiency with some simple weapons. As do druids and monks, but they have non-smple proficiencies as well.

[Lycanthromancer]

Then they have feat equivalents, which are Ex.

[EjoThims]

 

Added Form of Doom (finally, thanks for the help in getting it in Lycan, though I'm not happy that I can't seem to figure out how to make using the dorjes a sure shot each time).

Gained 3840 attacks by adding four off-hands.

[Lycanthromancer]

From the SRD:

Knock-Down [General]
Prerequisites

Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15.
Benefit

Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target.

Now, is it just me, or does the wording there allow for Improved Trip to make an additional attack?

This essentially doubles the number of melee attacks you can make in a round, so long as your damage output is 10 or more (which is REALLY easy to get)?

This shows promise...

[bogsnes]

You will have to get allowed to trip an already tripped opponent, though...

[Lycanthromancer]

Do it while swimming. Or flying. Or in a subjective gravity plane. Etc.

Or against multiple creatures.

Maybe something with Improved Grab?

[bogsnes]

Or against multiple creatures.

I think it is very hard to find a place where it is a million enemies within your reach of a size of +/- 1 of yours...

[Lycanthromancer]

Swarms.

[EjoThims]

Swarms.

Are one creature.

[BowenSilverclaw]

Just find a kobold lair somewhere and walk in

[Lycanthromancer]

And anyway, you should be able to make 2x the number of attacks, prone or no. It goes like this:

Step 1: Make a successful melee attack roll.
Step 2: Deal more than 9 pts of damage.
Step 3: You make a free trip attempt (at a +4 bonus, with no possibility of being tripped in return).
Step 4: You succeed at the trip.
Step 5: Step 4 triggers Improved Trip, meaning you gain an additional attack.
Step 6: Profit!

[EjoThims]

Step 3: You make a free trip attempt (at a +4 bonus, with no possibility of being tripped in return).
Step 4: You succeed at the trip.

And that's where it breaks down. You can't trip a prone target, meaning you can't make the attempt, and even if you could, you could not be successful at it.

Besides, that relies on having an opponent to trip (as opposed to a wall or simply the planet) in the first place, it's not a baseline granted attack.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Swarms.

Are one creature.

Once they're defeated they disperse into individuals.