Most ineffective gestalt character ever

[altpersona]

adult white dragon 18/rogue2//fighter 20

[RobbyPants]

I thought this was evaluating just base classes, and not races.

[carnivore]

I thought this was evaluating just base classes, and not races.

you are correct .... it is just base Classes

adult white dragon 18/rogue2//fighter 20

however for this .... to be Legal.... it would be :

Juvenile 14HD White Dragon(14 HD+5 LA)/ Rogue 1//Fighter 20

that would not be great, but would be playable

 

[Sohala]

But do repeative breaking of the knight's code stack? The -2 to attack part, because that would start to add up if so.

Does their code preclude them from flanking?

Flanking, flat-footed, or helpless

[carnivore]

they dont attack them with Lethal force ... and they dont attack Flatfooted at all(until they are ready=not flatfooted)

 

[Surreal]

I'm going to go with Divine Mind on one side and, oh I dunno... spellthief on the other.

[altpersona]

I thought this was evaluating just base classes, and not races.

you are correct .... it is just base Classes

adult white dragon 18/rogue2//fighter 20

however for this .... to be Legal.... it would be :

Juvenile 14HD White Dragon(14 HD+5 LA)/ Rogue 1//Fighter 20

that would not be great, but would be playable

 

ya , thats what i meant

[jameswilliamogle]

Is Spellthief really that bad?  You get Sneak Attack, ability to steal all sorts of unique effects, ability to cast transmutations among other stuff, and get a decent skill list. 

Heck, with a Dragon Mag ACF you get to trade some stuff in and get Bardic casting (including Bard spells!) instead of slow casting.

[Ithamar]

So no love (or hate?) for my Hexblade || Fighter suggestion, hmm?

How about Swashbuckler || Fighter?  Once again, all you end up with is a Swash with bonus feats.  Whoopee.

Or maybe Swashbuckler || Dragonfire Adept or something odd, so you end up with somewhat conflicting class abilities and very MAD.

[Saxony]

So no love (or hate?) for my Hexblade || Fighter suggestion, hmm?

The overlapping base bonuses are way bad, but we can do worse

[Kajhera]

I would totally play a swashbuckler/dragonfire adept. Maybe.

Try knight / fighter that gives up his feats for sneak attack ... very hard to utilize both sets of features.

Hmm ... ninja/bard might have trouble with the whole, sneaking and music thing. Bards aren't that foreign to stealth, though. Take perform(dance), go into shadowdancer, pretend this makes sense.

Ninja/Truenamer or Rogue/Truenamer might suffer from something similar...

[skydragonknight]

Knight//Ninja.

Can't strike flat-footed foes? Good luck using Sudden Strike. AC when unarmored vs. Heavy Armor Mobility. Bonuses to movement skills vs. armor check penalties.

Where IS the Rokugan Ninja? Can't find it in OA.

[jameswilliamogle]

Its in the Rokugan Campain Setting

[Surreal]

Not completely ineffective... but mostly passive buffer type guy: Dragon Shaman/Divine Mind

[fallen-angle]

Monk//CW Samurai strikes me as the worst possible combination.

The classes simply ruin each other. For instance

The Pros:
-Max BAB and Saves. This is pretty good, but nothing Fighter/Monk or Barbarian/Wizard or Paladin/Rogue couldn't have.

The Cons:
-Swords vs. Flurry. They cannot both use their Swords and use Flurry of blows at the same time, they must choose between one or the other essentially losing all combat benefits of the other class.

-Armor vs Nekkid. Samurai can wear heavy armor, it is the source of his AC. Monk cannot use any of his abilities while armored, ruining an important defensive option from the samurai.

-5 Ability Dependant. To make use of all the class features you need high Strength, Constitution, Wisdom, Charisma, and (assuming you aren't using armor) Dexterity.

-Poor As Dirt. To support this dependency this character would have to spend nearly all their money on stat boosting items just to survive. Skimping on Strength reduces damage, skimping on dexterity reduces AC and Initiative, skimping on Constitution reduces his hp, Wisdom would leave him with crap DCs, Charisma would ruin his intimidation tricks. To get +6 to all 5 would cost 180,000gp. A huge investment.

-Dumber Than Dirt. Races or flaws could be taken to mitigate this problem, but since he needs 5 of the six primary stats the only one left to dump is int. Assuming he starts with low int, then takes a penalty to it (half-orc maybe?). He is probably only getting 2 - 3 skill points per level. That is barely, BARELY enough to support his 3 key skills (Intimidate, Tumble, Iajutsu Focus). This means he cannot climb, or swim, or hide, or bluff. None of that.

-No Magic For You. UMD is right out, even attempting to buy it CC is out since he has no skill points to spend. He little to no wealth to spend on items for body slots and his sluggish damage and unimpressive hp and feat selection set him far from first pick on the party buff wagon.

So basically the two worst base classes in DnD are both eastern themed. But when you put them together they get alone like the Korean border patrol (read: poorly). End result is a combo without a single shred of synergy, that goes so far as using class features of one class stops you from using the other class...pretty much completely.

[JaronK]

-Swords vs. Flurry. They cannot both use their Swords and use Flurry of blows at the same time, they must choose between one or the other essentially losing all combat benefits of the other class.

Eh, the combat benefits of the CW Samurai are more about their fear effects.  With that said, those don't work with flurry either.

The thing is though, it's just a Monk with full BAB, better HP, and an optional fear pulse effect which, combined with Imperious Command, is pretty useful.  That's not too shabby, especially since one of the main complaints about Monks is their lack of full BAB (well, it's a big one at least).

What about Sneak Attack Variant Fighter//Rokugan Ninja?  That's exactly the same as a normal Rokugan Ninja except you get a better fort save and higher HD.  You get nothing else at all.

JaronK

[SKRP]

-Dumber Than Dirt. Races or flaws could be taken to mitigate this problem, but since he needs 5 of the six primary stats the only one left to dump is int. Assuming he starts with low int, then takes a penalty to it (half-orc maybe?). He is probably only getting 2 - 3 skill points per level. That is barely, BARELY enough to support his 3 key skills (Intimidate, Tumble, Iajutsu Focus). This means he cannot climb, or swim, or hide, or bluff. None of that.

CW Samurai do not even have Iajutsu Focus.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

CW Samurai /// Monk

A samurai who gains a level in any class other than samurai may never again raise his samurai level, though he retains all his current samurai abilities. - Complete Warrior

A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities.  -Players Handbook

So if you are restricted to two classes, you can't get past level 2 because you took a non monk level and a non samurai level.   

[snakeman830]

CW Samurai /// Monk

A samurai who gains a level in any class other than samurai may never again raise his samurai level, though he retains all his current samurai abilities. - Complete Warrior

A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities.  -Players Handbook

So if you are restricted to two classes, you can't get past level 2 because you took a non monk level and a non samurai level.   

No you didn't.  Each level was a Monk level and a Samurai level.  This is gestalt we're talking about.  You have no Non-Monk or Non-Samurai levels.

[altpersona]

evil (fallen) paladin 20//ex druid 20

full bab, 12/6/12 saves, armor and weapons issues..