Author Topic: Most ineffective gestalt character ever  (Read 8903 times)

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JaronK

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2010, 02:22:27 PM »
I think this was already answered:  Paladin of Tyranny//Paladin of Freedom.  Due to alignment issues, you don't get the benefits of one of the classes at all.

If you want stuff that doesn't do it via conflicts, how about Healer//Monk?  Horrific MAD, and the abilities don't synergize at all because Monks want to be attacking in combat while Healers are just supposed to use rather useless mid combat cures.  You've got all good saves, but little else worth talking about.

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carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2010, 02:25:19 PM »
avioding things that are Impossible(Paladin of Tyranny//Paladin of Freedom.  Due to alignment issues, unless using something to get around them)

Healer//Monk .... is also a weak build


so at the Bottom of the list would be:

Healer//Monk
Ninja//Monk

 :D



VennDygrem

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 02:27:52 PM »
Most ineffective? How about 1 level each of different classes? All different classes.

You know, like:
fighter//paladin
wizard//monk

etc. etc.

carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2010, 02:37:38 PM »
that probably would be the weakest ... but how many times do you see the same type of build in Non-gestalt situations.... it is virtually the same as a VOP Artificer

i would like to see the weakest type of build that demonstrates the worst of the classes with as few redeaming qualities as possible ..... so many times am i seeing people say "xxxx//xxxx is a terrible choice, when in reality it is not, and in some cases it is actually a very strong build

many allow Class-prejudice and ignorance blind them to Combos that are strong and fun to play .... this thread will give everyone a better response than the knee-jerk responses that have been made previously

it will also give some ideas for more creative uses of different classes so that Builds can continue to be discovered that are surprising and fun to play

 :D

VennDygrem

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2010, 02:44:20 PM »
What I meant was, at each level, combining two different classes, so in essence you end up with a build full of first level class abilities and no actual power other than possibly a decent BAB and possibly a decent set of saves, and the fact that you get feats like everyone else. Plus you're MAD as hell (and you ain't gonna take it anymore!)

JaronK

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2010, 02:55:51 PM »
Yeah, I'm sticking with Healer//Monk if alignment conflict builds aren't allowed.  They don't synergize at all, and they create MAD.  Even Ninja//Monk allows for some decent striking (Flurry+Sudden Strike is handy) but Flurry + Cure doesn't work.

JaronK

Ithamar

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2010, 02:56:06 PM »
Hexblade || Fighter - Both have d10 HD, so nothing gained.  Both have perfect BAB, so once again no net gain.  All that you really end up with is a Hexblade with a slightly better Fort save and some bonus feats.  Playable?  Sure.  But a waste of space compared to most gestalt builds.
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carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2010, 02:57:02 PM »
i understand ... as i said, that would be the weakest .... but it is not the type of build we are looking for... i should have been more specific

if the question was : What is the weakest Character? .... the goal i am trying to find is to determine what Single Class is weakest

so for this thread, we are looking for what combination of 2 single classes is the weakest.


also i have just finished a coursory scan of the Healer//Monk combo .... it is far stronger than you might realize(Primary focus on Wisdom, secondary on Cha) combined with the right Companion(+Natural Bond)(Lammasu,Gynosphinx,Water naga) ... although it may not be a Damage Powerhouse, it can easily keep a party in good condition

 :D

Mixster

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2010, 03:24:47 PM »
Wizard 1/sorceror 1/fighter 1/barbarian 1/monk1/x1/x1//cleric 1/druid 1/CW Samurai 1/Paladin of freedom 1/Ninja 1/x1/x1

Yeah, you'll rock at first level but after that you'll suck.

How to optimize it? Grab a level of bard and one of spellthief, grab master spellthief and loads of Practiced spellcaster and a few levels of sublime chord and you've got yourself a master spellthief.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2010, 03:25:54 PM »
Healer//Monk
Ninja//Monk
Only trumped in ineffectiveness by the dreaded gestalt Monk||Monk.  :smirk
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Sohala

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2010, 03:32:04 PM »
How about a knight//rogue?
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RobbyPants

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2010, 03:41:02 PM »
How about a knight//rogue?
It does have some good anti-synergy, although you could still play it as a straight rogue with full BAB, d12 HD and a good Will save and just ignore your crap Knight class features and be a decent character.  It would still suck as a gestalt, but it's a lot better than things like samurai//soulblades.
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Sohala

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2010, 03:45:59 PM »
But do repeative breaking of the knight's code stack? The -2 to attack part, because that would start to add up if so.
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carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2010, 03:47:35 PM »
Knight//Rogue ... actually would not be too bad... especially if the Feat Variant Rogue is used

as for Knight//Rogue vs CW Samurai//Soulblade it is debateable ... the Knight//Feat Rogue is clearly Superior

 :D

carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2010, 03:48:48 PM »
But do repeative breaking of the knight's code stack? The -2 to attack part, because that would start to add up if so.
just dont break the Code .... you could play it as a Skillmonkey Knight with Evasion and Trapfinding

 :D

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2010, 04:01:25 PM »
But do repeative breaking of the knight's code stack? The -2 to attack part, because that would start to add up if so.
Does their code preclude them from flanking?
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RobbyPants

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2010, 04:05:48 PM »
But do repeative breaking of the knight's code stack? The -2 to attack part, because that would start to add up if so.
I forgot about the -2.  I thought you just lost a use of Knight's Challenge per day, or something equally stupid.
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Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
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Steve: You underestimate my power!
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2010, 04:10:32 PM »
So, a lot of these don't seem that bad to me.  One of the proposed fixes to the Tier issue was to allow the lower tiers to gestalt up to redeem their features.  Is that a plausible fix? 

carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2010, 04:11:30 PM »
But do repeative breaking of the knight's code stack? The -2 to attack part, because that would start to add up if so.
Does their code preclude them from flanking?
they do not gain the bonuses themselves for Flanking, but do give them to thier teammates.... if they choose to gain the bonuses, it constitutes breaking thier code

 :D

carnivore

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Re: Most ineffective gestalt character ever
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2010, 04:12:55 PM »
So, a lot of these don't seem that bad to me.  One of the proposed fixes to the Tier issue was to allow the lower tiers to gestalt up to redeem their features.  Is that a plausible fix? 
it easily makes some of the lower level Classes equal or Superior to higher Tiered classes ... with few exceptions(Monk//Ninja)

 :D