Making Raptor Arrows not made of Fail.

[Sunic_Flames]

If you lose the Bane anything you're basically paying 36k for infinite ammo. Extradimensional storage laughs at you.

Not exactly, but I see your point. You're paying 36k for infinite +1 ammo. Or rather, you're paying 36k for six +1 returning weapons. Cheaper than what you'd normally pay for six +1 returning melee weapons, right? Okay, okay, but it's not exactly the same because they're ammunition. But because they're ammunition they can also be enchanted with total awesomeness for WAY cheap, and since they are indestructable... guess what that means?

If you lose the bane part you have 6 arrows for 36036gp. These arrows have a +2 enhancement bonus. Now to enchant 50 arrows to +3 costs 18,000gp. To enchant 5 it costs 1800! To enchant 5 arrows to +10 costs only 20,000!

No, you're just paying 36k for infinite ammo. Bow and arrow basic enhancements don't stack, and a +1 bow gives you as many +1 arrows as you can fire for 8,400 gold + whatever from composite.

The Returning bit functions exactly as the book returning except it works on ammo, puts it on your bowstring instead of in your hand, and lets you move with it. The first is obviously useless without indestructible ammo. The second is just fluff. The third is the only one that can be argued to be an improvement since that means being able to Skirmish, or just 5' step without being glued in place.

Raising the price to make it unconditional is fine with me. Dunno why you're getting an attitude about it though.

As for relic mechanics... I already changed that... I think it's Celestial Armor because no Eberron deity fit it to be a generic item and made a bowstring that auto adjusts composite bonus (thereby taking the only worthwhile property off the Bow of the Wintermoon).

Funny thing though. If you're concerned about balance, calling a +1 Returning Bane (anything) Indestructable arrow +7 or +8 is actually better than your way, as it means far fewer and more expensive special slots are available for anything else.

[bkdubs123]

Right, bow and arrow enhancements don't stack, so you make the Raptor arrows +10 straight up, and then you make the Bow Flaming Frost Shock Speed. Now you have a +16 weapon for under 100k.

[Sunic_Flames]

Why the fuck did I say 8,400 gold? It's 2,400 gold + composite. Fail.

[dman11235]

No, you're just paying 36k for infinite ammo. Bow and arrow basic enhancements don't stack, and a +1 bow gives you as many +1 arrows as you can fire for 8,400 gold + whatever from composite.

Infinite ammo that you can improve.  Enhacnement bonuses don't stack, but if you have, say, a +1 splitting bow and +1 seeking arrows they become +1 seeking splitting.  So if you have a +1 bow with +9 worth of special abilities and a +1 arrow with +9 of different special abilities, you end up with a +1 arrow with +18 of special abilities.  Add in GMW for a +5 arrow with the +18 special abilities.  That passage in the SRD that was quoted waaaaay back in post 3 doesn't affect things like Wounding or Seeking or Collision, only enhancement bonus

The Returning bit functions exactly as the book returning except it works on ammo, puts it on your bowstring instead of in your hand, and lets you move with it. The first is obviously useless without indestructible ammo. The second is just fluff. The third is the only one that can be argued to be an improvement since that means being able to Skirmish, or just 5' step without being glued in place.

So it's not Returning.

Raising the price to make it unconditional is fine with me.

But...you were saying...that you wanted to lower the price AND eliminate the reqs.

As for relic mechanics... I already changed that... I think it's Celestial Armor because no Eberron deity fit it to be a generic item and made a bowstring that auto adjusts composite bonus (thereby taking the only worthwhile property off the Bow of the Wintermoon).

And how were you changing the relic mechanics?  I haven't seen this, and you've only been talking about Raptor Arrows.

Funny thing though. If you're concerned about balance, calling a +1 Returning Bane (anything) Indestructable arrow +7 or +8 is actually better than your way, as it means far fewer and more expensive special slots are available for anything else.

The whole enhance your bow more thing I view as a buff to archers, who could use it.  Besides, once you have +15 of special abilities you start running out of good ones.  I don't find that unbalanced very much.  On the powerful side, but not by much.  Well within the range of acceptance.  What I wouldn't find balanced would be this with no restrictions at this price.  Maybe around 8,000 for this restriction free.  There is a cost for restricting options.  But at 8,000+cost of the arrow I think it would be fine.  Just remember: if it's not a special weapon enhancement (Seeking, Splitting, etc.), it's not a +x to the weapon price.  It's a flat cost.

[Sunic_Flames]

Notice how the first few posts corrected my stance? I adapted from there. Which is why I'm mentioning lowering the cost anymore.

The relic changes as stated were because the gods are different and distant in Eberron. So they become generic items.

In any case, I'm going with calling the arrows 7,506 gold items that have 3 enhancement slots left for other stuff (where +8 makes it 8,106, +9 makes it 8,786, and +10 makes it 9,906) then just call it a day.

Have I mentioned I hate relics yet?

[Eldariel]

Regarding Bane: Anything, it's really easy to grade - it's +2 to attack and 2d6 damage. +2 weapon is obviously a +2 enhancement as is +2d6 damage (with limitations and benefits - e.g. Holy). As this +2 can increase the weapon enhancement into epic territory (over +5), it's better than the standard +2. The two are about even (although since the +2 from Bane can make a non-epic weapon epic, it's a tad stronger), so both sides of it are pretty accurately +2 and thus Bane: Anything rates as a strong +4.

[veekie]

I'd say personally, that converting the arrows away from relics alone should do the trick. The item as is, being an unlimited use +1, anybane arrow, remains useful for archers of all levels, since enchanted bows give it the raw +X and whatever primary extra enhancements they want. If you want trick arrows for cheap, get the regular variety of enchanted ammo. If you want permanent trick arrows,  thats what bow enchantments are for.