Help with a general artificer

[Tonymitsu]

G'day boards.  Long-time lurker, first-time poster.  hi there 


My group is preparing for an upcoming round-robin campaign (we each run one session then pass it to the next person) and for my build I decided on something simple ( ), Artificer 20.

I've done a lot of theory crafting with Artificers but this will be my first time actually playing one in a game so I wanted to just do a little bit of everything the artificer can do until I decide which part I like best.

-40 point buy
-Characters start at level 3, standard WPL
-No multiclass penalties
-All printed WotC material (no third-party material) is allowed.  RAW is law in our round-robin games.
-the rest of the party so far consists of an erudite (non-spellcaster), a cleric (healbot), an astral deva (progression as a class via savage species), a blaster wizard ( yeah...), and one undecided (99% likely to play a non-rogue, melee glass cannon of some variety).  Since that leaves us without skill-monkey, my character will be picking up the slack as the party trapfinder.

so far I have:
Human (cause feats are good and I need the skill points)
Str:  8
Dex:  14
Con:  14
Int:  18
Wis:  10
Cha:  16

First level feats at the moment are Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, since I plan to be blasting at some point.
Then for the rest I wanted to take Extend, Persist, Twin, and Quicken, in that order, presumably to be able to buff to a reasonable degree and blast somewhat competently.  I'm at a loss as to the last feat though.  Repeat Spell seems fun but off the top of my head I can only think of one spell that I would regularly use with that.  Ideally I'd like Nymph's Kiss since I'm so strapped for skill points, but I'd want to take that at first level which would push all the metamagics back past where I want them.  I'm coming up short for a feat that could justify pushing back the metamagic feats or one that would be of great benefit at 18th level.
For my artificer bonus feats I wanted Exceptional Artisan, Wand Mastery, Legendary Artisan, Extra Rings and Craft Construct, also in that order for lack of a better one.

Since I have to double up as the party skill-monkey, my skill points are extremely tight.  At the moment I'm keeping Open Lock, Search, Disable, Spellcraft, and UMD maxed, class Knowledges at one or two points, Armorsmithing and Weaponsmithing maxed (both for making masterwork equipment for everyone now, and capping them when I hit the DC's for golems without rolling).  I'm also trying to get points into pottery, sculpting, etc. to make my own homunculus (messanger as soon as we level and later the wright since half my group likes to keep us constantly running around when they DM).  This leaves me little room for important things like Concentration.

Gear seems pretty straightforward:  I have my MW armor and crossbow (rolled to craft them already and succeeded), and my MW tool for UMD checks, and a +UMD skill item (made this level), but beyond that I got nothing.  Also, since I noticed that artificer crafting pools don't carry over when you level, I'm at a loss for what to do with the crafting pools from previous levels.


How is that for a start?  I'm not exactly going for an optimal build, just one that is capable of sampling everything.

[Sinfire Titan]

The thread title makes me giggle: You're trying to make what is effectively a Wal-Mart with legs.

Edit: I'd put a little more into Cha than Int, seeing as you don't need 8 Skill Points/level (7 is enough for most of an Artificer's needs) and UMD is more important than most of your class skills. That extra +1 may not seem like much, but if your DM allows you to use up the Craft Reserve at each level you will appreciate it.

[Tonymitsu]

Oh believe me, I've lived by virtue of the Dodge feat enough times to know that every +1 counts.

But the problem I have with that is that my UMD check for crafting caps.
I'll never need to roll higher than a DC 37 (20 + 17th level caster... okay fine, a wand of Wings of Flurry at an arbitrary caster level... but who wants to go there?), and there are lots of ways to boost the check to get it that high.
There's almost no replacement for the extra skill points, higher Int checks AND extra infusions per day, especially at low levels where I don't foresee myself doing a whole lot of magic item crafting.  The fact that I have to double as party skill-monkey is what governed most of my decision.

Unless I'd really, really be better off with an 18 Cha?

[Endarire]

INT determines the saves for infusions and the nubmer of infusions per day.  I prefer to max INT before CHA.

Im practical terms, you can never have too many skill points.  Put the rest in Diplomacy or Sense Motive or something.

[Havok4]

I would recommend that you use your crafting points to scribe several scrolls of various useful spells. At early levels that is a fairly good way to use what you have. I would recommend making several utility scrolls.

At higher levels a trick you could use is to take the spell unfettered heroism from races of ebberon and put it into a staff. Cast the power surge and metamagic item infusions on the staff too allow for a free persistent casting of the spell each day. Then take the wand surge feat, which allows you to spend a action point instead of a charge in a spell trigger item such as a wand or a staff, and persistent unfettered heroism provides you with one temporary action point that is renewed each round all day long, leading to effectively infinite ammo. But run that by your DM first to keep him from getting angry at you.

[Sinfire Titan]

INT determines the saves for infusions and the nubmer of infusions per day.  I prefer to max INT before CHA.

Im practical terms, you can never have too many skill points.  Put the rest in Diplomacy or Sense Motive or something.

But how many Infusions allow saves and are combat-practical without Action Points?

[Emy]

INT determines the saves for infusions and the nubmer of infusions per day.  I prefer to max INT before CHA.

Im practical terms, you can never have too many skill points.  Put the rest in Diplomacy or Sense Motive or something.

But how many Infusions allow saves and are combat-practical without Action Points?

I can't think of any off the top of my head. Infusion saves are pretty much entirely irrelevant. Receiving more castings per day, on the other hand, is useful.

edit: pg 31, Eberron Campaign Setting

In addition, he recieves extra infusions per day if he has a sufficiently high Intelligence score (see Table 1-1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, page 8 of the Player's Handbook).

[Sinfire Titan]

I can't think of any off the top of my head. Infusion saves are pretty much entirely irrelevant. Receiving more castings per day, on the other hand, is useful.

They get bonus Infusions? I wasn't aware of that.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I cannot promote the stronghold builder's guidebook enough for you.  Your party needs to be going around in a burning flying pirate ship.  You'll have a nice, safe place to craft, a huge credit line for spending on the ship (approximately equal to your WBL), and gigantic spell-spewing cannons. 

Just agree that your ninth level feat will be Landlord. 

[Emy]

I recommend not getting an airship until you have Landlord, unless you're able to steal one (you ARE an Artificer).

1) Scry on or otherwise view an airship ownership deed (or equivalent document) at some point.

2) Have the following: a forgery kit, guidance of the avatar x2 (from the cleric), divine insight x2 (self-crafted), improvisation x2 (self-crafted), ray of hope x2 (from the cleric), benediction x2 (from the cleric), glibness x1 (self-crafted), eagle's splendor x1 (self-cast), fox's cunning x1 (self-cast), and skill enhancement x2 (self-cast).

Assuming the cleric has a CL of 3, and your items have a CL of 3:

3) Forge the document. 1d20 + 20 competence + 2 circumstance + 8 insight + 1 luck + 2 morale + 2 Int + 3 circumstance = minimum result 39 plus your normal Int bonus. And you get a re-roll.

Next day...

4) Bluff well enough to climb aboard the airship and fly off with it. Present the document with your bluff check of... 1d20 + 20 competence + 8 insight + 1 luck + 2 morale + 2 Cha + 30 unnamed + 3 circumstance = minimum result 67 plus your normal Cha bonus. (Again, you get a re-roll.)

5) "You can't take the sky from me" and/or "Bitch please, I'm an Artificer."

[Anklebite]

take my love, take my land,
take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free.
you can't take the skies from me!

sorry, had to.

[Akalsaris]

How come I don't get a planet where everybody loves me?

[Tonymitsu]

Well the group is definitely on board with acquiring an airship, but since we're good-aligned they would rather build one than steal it.


I took a (brief) look through the Stronghold Builder's guidebook, ESC, Magic of Eberron, and the Explorer's Handbook and I'm left confused.

The rules for crafting an airship and creating a stronghold don't seem to mesh very well at first glance.  For instance, in order to have it be considered a stronghold so that the Landlord feat can apply means it would have to be a mobile one.  ESC says airships move at about 20 mph, but the table in SBG caps at 10, and drastically increases the price.

In the back of ESC the creation of an airship is listed as a strong conjuration at CL 15th, and requires the Bind Elemental feat.  So without that feat how can I be considered the one "making" the airship (or the stronghold) and get the usual crafter discounts to apply?

[Anklebite]

scroll of planar binding, make it out of soarwood?

[Emy]

scroll of planar binding, make it out of soarwood?

Don't they already need to be made out of soarwood?

[Anklebite]

then just go grab a scroll then, its what, 3k gold or so for an airship?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

There are other ways of making a stronghold fly than just enchanting it directly (which, though effective, tends to be expensive if you have a lot of stronghold spaces). 

The reasons the price for stronghold mobility is set so high are that
A) Castles aren't very aerodynamic
B) The stronghold can set up to be controlled by anyone, without skills or class abilities.
C) Dispelling or Disjoining the stronghold's mobility has to be done to every space simultaneously to have an effect.  Which is pretty difficult.

If your DM doesn't mind extrapolating from the table, here's a best fit curve.  The R² value is pretty good, too (it is, of course, not an exact match, since the developers love their round numbers so.



That is,
Speed (in MPH) is equal to 0.0002*Price(in hundred GP increments)^2 -0.229*Price(in hundred GP increments) +0.6172 MPH

Of course, based on what I'm seeing of the "beginner's luck" in the explorer's handbook (which only goes at 10 mph as well), it seems like you could probably cram it into five stronghold spaces or so.  You'd have to have a Lawful Neutral guy on staff to use some enveloping pits (MIC) for the cargo storage, but it's otherwise pretty workable.

Otherwise, you can just make a wooden stronghold out of soarwood without any magical mobility enhancements, stick some sails onto it, and use control winds.

[PhaedrusXY]

Did you see how much money you get from the Landlord feat? And also, you can have multiple people take it and apply it to the same stronghold. And any money you put in on top of the "free" money is automatically doubled? You can get a sick, sick ship if everyone is willing to invest a feat... (or two... one on leadership, and have their cohort also take Landlord...). Go look at the "Death of an Artist" game on here, for an example.