Need Gish assistance

[brislove]

So I'm going with the Pally 2 (PHB)/ Sorc 4 (PHB)/ SS 1(cWar)/ AC 5(cMage)/ SE 8(cDivine) build stub. I'm starting at 7th.

So a couple variant things. Running with battle sorcerer, with a couple changes. No familiar -1 spell per day/level. But normal spells known (as sorcerer). This seemed reasonable to me for the ignoring spell failure from light armor.

So here's what I have right now. level 7 Pally 2/battle sorc 4/SS 1
human
32 point buy
16 str, 14 dex, 14 con, 10 int, 8 wis, 17 cha (+1'd at level 4)

Feats:
H: Power Attack
1st: Combat Casting
3rd: Divine might
6th: Arcane Strike

is it too early to take arcane strike? what should I take instead?

Spells Known
1st: Fist of Stone, Shield, Enlarge person, Grease
2nd: WraithStrike, ? too many good options, but I'm sure there is something essential to a gish that I'm missing.

Also for magic items....Mithril BP, +1 greatsword, +2 str gloves, +2 cha cloak, 2x pearl of power one. 1000 g left over. Anything I shouldn't have or should have something else instead of?

[ninjarabbit]

Just stick with regular sorcerer, battlesorcerer just isn't worth it especially since the level of spellsword gets you -10% ASF, enough for a mithral chain shirt or something with the twilight enchantment.

You don't qualify for arcane strike at level 6 because you can't cast 3rd level spells, you have to wait until level 9. And where are you getting turn undead at level 3 to qualify for divine might? Practiced spellcaster is a good choice.

Some good 2nd level spells for a gish include alter self, glitterdust, web, mirror image, and shatter.

[SorO_Lost]

So I'm going with the Pally 2 (PHB)/ Sorc 4 (PHB)/ SS 1(cWar)/ AC 5(cMage)/ SE 8(cDivine) build stub. I'm starting at 7th.

SS? SE? Spellsword & Sacred Exorcist right?

Why do you have spellsword levels when you have Abjurant Champion and are clearly playing good aligned?
Greater Luminous Armor (BoED) = +13 AC & 0% ASF at the cost of a spell slot instead of 50ish thousand gold.

Have you considered Playing as a Bard/Paladin/Warblade at low levels using Song of the White Raven & Word of Creation abuse with a future goal of Sublime Chord/AC/SE later on?
Example: Paladin 2 / Bard 3 / Crusader 3 / Arcane Duelist 2 / Sublime Chord 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist 4
Cha to saves & AC, using greater luminous armor & shield for another +22 AC, badge of valor + bard spell + words = +6 or +8 inspire as a swift action, 9th level spells. Requires some DM fait or good RP to mix bard & paladin though, could drop it for more crusader levels.

[brislove]

So I'm going with the Pally 2 (PHB)/ Sorc 4 (PHB)/ SS 1(cWar)/ AC 5(cMage)/ SE 8(cDivine) build stub. I'm starting at 7th.

SS? SE? Spellsword & Sacred Exorcist right?

Why do you have spellsword levels when you have Abjurant Champion and are clearly playing good aligned?
Greater Luminous Armor (BoED) = +13 AC & 0% ASF at the cost of a spell slot instead of 50ish thousand gold.

Have you considered Playing as a Bard/Paladin/Warblade at low levels using Song of the White Raven & Word of Creation abuse with a future goal of Sublime Chord/AC/SE later on?
Example: Paladin 2 / Bard 3 / Crusader 3 / Arcane Duelist 2 / Sublime Chord 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist 4
Cha to saves & AC, using greater luminous armor & shield for another +22 AC, badge of valor + bard spell + words = +6 or +8 inspire as a swift action, 9th level spells. Requires some DM fait or good RP to mix bard & paladin though, could drop it for more crusader levels.

I erred when posting. No TOB. I knew I was forgetting something. it's all books minus ToB subject to DM approval....

I also forgot that while using battle sorc variant I have BAB 5 without the Spell Sword level. so you are correct I can drop that.

Also somehow I was on crack and thought paladin's got turn undead at 2nd.....I shouldn't make builds at 4am lol. so both feats need to be replaced. turn doesn't come in until the sacred exorcist levels. Bleh, that makes me want to go with a different archetype all together (as I don't expect this game to run into the mid-high 20s.

@ Ninja Rabbit.
Battle Sorc isn't worth it as written, but if I don't lose the spells known is it still a terrible option?

[Akula]

So I'm going with the Pally 2 (PHB)/ Sorc 4 (PHB)/ SS 1(cWar)/ AC 5(cMage)/ SE 8(cDivine) build stub. I'm starting at 7th.

SS? SE? Spellsword & Sacred Exorcist right?

Why do you have spellsword levels when you have Abjurant Champion and are clearly playing good aligned?
Greater Luminous Armor (BoED) = +13 AC & 0% ASF at the cost of a spell slot instead of 50ish thousand gold.

Have you considered Playing as a Bard/Paladin/Warblade at low levels using Song of the White Raven & Word of Creation abuse with a future goal of Sublime Chord/AC/SE later on?
Example: Paladin 2 / Bard 3 / Crusader 3 / Arcane Duelist 2 / Sublime Chord 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist 4
Cha to saves & AC, using greater luminous armor & shield for another +22 AC, badge of valor + bard spell + words = +6 or +8 inspire as a swift action, 9th level spells. Requires some DM fait or good RP to mix bard & paladin though, could drop it for more crusader levels.

I erred when posting. No TOB. I knew I was forgetting something. it's all books minus ToB subject to DM approval....

I also forgot that while using battle sorc variant I have BAB 5 without the Spell Sword level. so you are correct I can drop that.

Also somehow I was on crack and thought paladin's got turn undead at 2nd.....I shouldn't make builds at 4am lol. so both feats need to be replaced. turn doesn't come in until the sacred exorcist levels. Bleh, that makes me want to go with a different archetype all together (as I don't expect this game to run into the mid-high 20s.

@ Ninja Rabbit.
Battle Sorc isn't worth it as written, but if I don't lose the spells known is it still a terrible option?

I believe that he means not worth it in your build. The allure of Battle Sorcerer is that you don't have to take levels in a normal melee class in order to get into a number of good gish PrCs, Sorcerer 16/Abjurant Champion 4 is an instant gish (not a very good one but it is pretty damn simple). You already lost casting to Paladin, don't lose more to Battle Sorcerer.

[SorO_Lost]

Also somehow I was on crack and thought paladin's got turn undead at 2nd.....

Soldier of Light (deities and demigods) gives Turn Undead on the first level, and Divine Grace on the second.
You have to be NG and worship Elishar on top of racking up +5 BAB before taking levels in it.

It does offer a way to pick up Divine Grace with Bard levels if you use sublime chord. Otherwise, it is a CoC free paladin sub that picks up turn undead.

[brislove]

I'm trying to find a way to be viable in the middle levels with a gish archetype. I get to start at 7 or 8 (not sure what level we will be after this current adventure, but that is when I would bring in the gish).

I think my best option at this point is just to go swiftblade, I'm the parties only arcanist, but we tend to have combats with 1-2 enemies that do something and then a bunch of mooks (military combats abound). So I'm looking at it from the perspective of mobility being important, and spells like fireball being surprisingly good as they just kill large groups of enemies.

The party isn't optimized. we have 2 sword/board fighters that do almost no damage a ranger/deepwood sniper who has no str bonus and thus no composite bow, so minor damage still. a healer type cleric, a bard, and me. So I need to be dealing damage (lots) while still casting utility spells such as fly. I need to be doing that in the mid levels 7-12. I'm low on experience in this area.

[Farodin]

Pearls of Power only work for casters who prepare their spells.

With Wraithstrike and Power Attack you should be able to deal some damage, but it won't be that great at the beginning.

If you feel you still lag behind too much at level 10, you could take polymorph and beat everything to death singlehandedly.

Battle sorcerer moves the Abjurant Champion goodies one level ahead, which will help in the mid levels. In the end you will want that level of Spellsword anyway for the 1/1 progression, so at lvl 20 it won't be any good. If you never get there you don't have to worry about that of course.

Swiftblade isn't all that different concerning power level, but does feel very different in play. Take what you like best?

@ SorO_Lost: Wasn't there some feat in Complete Adventurer that specifically lets you combine Bard and Pally levels?
Also: Luminous Armor and similar spells need Arcane Preparatioin.

[SorO_Lost]

Thats what it was, I knew there was a way to do it. Devoted Performer (CAv) lets to be a lawful bard.

***

If you want a gish early on, try a Duskblade. You can't really mix spellcasting and melee until you PrC out to begin with.

As another option, if you have feat room and are willing to pick up nine levels of sorcerer, play a dwarf and go Fist of the Forest for a single level. With the sorcerer sub in races of the stone, thats con to bonus spells (on top of cha) and AC!

So many choices, so few levels...






Level 7: Paladin 5 / Bard 2, take the Charging Smite (PHBII) sub.
+6 BAB, 5d10+1d6 = 35 HP, cha to attack & +15 damage once per day, 4/4/4 saves, 1st level spells, Inspirational Boost + Badge of Valor + Words of Creation =  all teammates & you gain a +6 moral to attack and damage boost, can cast in any light armor.
VS
Say, Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 (or w/e)
+4 (or 5?) BAB, 2d10+4d4+1d6? = 29 HP, 4/1/4+SS saves, 2nd level spells, a familiar, can cast in mithral light armor.

Which do you like better?
The top build idea can jump into Arcane Duelist for cha to AC by the 9th level, take another bard level and inspire shoots up to +8


Bard 1 / Sumblime Chord 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist 4