Would this work?

[Unbeliever]

Wait?  Is there a way to make a viable Rage Mage?  Don't lie to me!

[Amechra]

Wait?  Is there a way to make a viable Rage Mage?  Don't lie to me!

Yep. As I read it, Spellfury is basically normal Rage, except it lets you cast spells.

So that's another 6 Dex, 6 Con right there, so if you aren't using Frenzied Berserker, you have a total of 22 Dex and 14 Con boosted, along with a nice boost to saves.

If you use it for actual casting, you have to look at my above post, at the part after "Let's combine them:"

The best part? You have CL equal to HD from Spellfury, and the Illumian word Uurkrau lets you use Dexterity to determine bonus spells...


Another abuse on the melee front: Bear Warrior's Bear Form, iirc, counts as a type of rage, so at 10 levels of the class, that's something like a +24 to Dex and a +10 to con right there...

I think Feral Trance counts as another type of rage, for an extra 6 Dex, 2 Con, and Con to AC.

So, let's use the following (dunno if it's actually possible as an illustration)

Dragonwrought Kobold Barbarian/Fist of the Forest/Rage Mage/Frenzied Berserker w/ Reckless Rage and Frantic Rage

Assume the following:

Passion's Flame
Reckless Rage
Ferocity ACF
Frenzied Berserker 10 levels
Feral Trance counts as Rage for the purpose of feats.

This comes out to:
5 boosts from Reckless Rage: 10 Dex, 10 Con, -10 AC
Rage: 4 Dex, 4 Con, 2 Will, -2 AC
Ferocity: 8 Dex, 2 Reflex, -2 RAR
Feral Trance: 4 Dex, +2 damage (unarmed), bite attack (1d6+str)
Frenzy: 10 Dex, +1 Attack per round, -4 AC, -2 HP/round, nonlethal
Spellfury: 4 Dex, 4 Con, 2 Will, -2 AC, can cast spells in rage

Altogether: 40(!) Dex, 18 Con, 4 Will, 2 Reflex, +2 damage (unarmed), bite attack (1d6+str), +1 Attack per round, -18 AC, -2 RAR, -2 HP/round, nonlethal

Let's put it this way...

A natural 1 is the only way you'll fail a reflex save.

Also, laugh if you accept a little drop in that Dex for a +36 to your caster stat for the purpose of determining bonus spells.

Supposing a minimum of 18 in your PCA and 10 Dex before you use this, you will have:

4 1st level, 4 2nd level, 4 3rd level, 4 4th level, 3 5th level, 3 6th level, 3 7th level, 3 8th level, and 2 9th level bonus spells.

I don't know about you, but I'm going to gestalt this with a sorcerer...

[Saxony]

This build is incomplete without the Shadow Blade feat thrown in.

+Dexterity to damage at all times when in a Shadow Hand stance and wielding Shadow Hand weapons. Throw in a level of Swordsage to get a stance for free (two levels if you want a high level stance); you won't regret it

Also: Mad, mad props.

[fuinjutsu]

Or mix in some Illumian, and that Illumian Word that makes Dexterity your primary casting statistic...

Wait, how does that even work. You know, from a flavor standpoint?

Is he dodging the laws of the universe?

(Note: I'm only bringing this up because there are feats that aren't spellcasting that revolve around your primary casting stat.)

Same goes for Strength-casting Illumian. Is he arm-wrestling the universe for spells?

It works because those power sigils around his head are deliberately mistranslating when the universe sends a data request. [/babble]

Someone more programming savy than me please make a cooler explanation?

[Littha]

Or mix in some Illumian, and that Illumian Word that makes Dexterity your primary casting statistic...

Wait, how does that even work. You know, from a flavor standpoint?

Is he dodging the laws of the universe?

(Note: I'm only bringing this up because there are feats that aren't spellcasting that revolve around your primary casting stat.)

Same goes for Strength-casting Illumian. Is he arm-wrestling the universe for spells?

It works because those power sigils around his head are deliberately mistranslating when the universe sends a data request. [/babble]

Someone more programming savy than me please make a cooler explanation?

The programming standpoint is rather boring, its a variable swap... exactly how it is in D&D

[Amechra]

Thanks Saxony.

The only way this would work as a caster is if there is a fast-progression Arcane caster we can mooch off of. I think we can fit all the rest around those 15 levels...

Even if not, a 16 point increase in the stat you use for bonus spells is nice...

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Maybe Suel Arcanamach? I love that class, maybe grab some Abjurant Champion.

[Mixster]

Thanks Saxony.

The only way this would work as a caster is if there is a fast-progression Arcane caster we can mooch off of. I think we can fit all the rest around those 15 levels...

Even if not, a 16 point increase in the stat you use for bonus spells is nice...

I'm sensing a beholder mage in the making?

You've made mr. Beholder ANGRY!

[Amechra]

I actually worked it out with Mage of the Arcane Order, because then I can put those loads of extra spell-slots to good use.

I'm just wondering how no one noticed this before now, because I have not been able to find a viable Rage Mage build anywhere...

Can anyone find one that uses a similar trick?

Oh, and here is a repost of my MotAO build

So having an Illumian Barbarian (Ferocity) 1/ Ruathar 3/ Wildrunner 1/ Cleric 1/ Wizard 5/ Rage Mage 1/MotAO 7/Frenzied Berserker 1 would work as a 20th level build, right?

Feats would be tight, and flaws might be needed, but as long as you have the following: Frantic Rage at 9th, Reckless Rage, and all the prereqs sorted out, you should be fine.

Using the Illumian Word that replaces your casting stat with dexterity for the purpose of bonus spells.

Alright. Barbarian, Wildrunner, Rage Mage, and Frenzied Berserker all have a different type of Rage they can whip out.

Frantic Rage converts Str bonuses to Dex bonuses.

I've calculated that you can achieve a 46+ in the stat you use to determine your bonus spells, and you have CL 20.

You won't get off too many spells, unless you have some way to lengthen the time in a rage considerably (I think the maximum is 11+Con modifier, and you get at least 10 Con from this trick.)

So that comes out to:

5 1st, 4 2nd, 4 3rd, 4 4th, 4 5th, 3 6th, 3 7th, 3 8th, and 3 9th
or, to extrapolate the table, more like

5 1st, 5 2nd, 4 3rd, 4 4th, 4 5th, 4 6th, 3 7th, 3 8th , 3 9th.

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

I'm just wondering how no one noticed this before now, because I have not been able to find a viable Rage Mage build anywhere...

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3568.msg116612#msg116612

[Amechra]

I'm just wondering how no one noticed this before now, because I have not been able to find a viable Rage Mage build anywhere...

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3568.msg116612#msg116612

Looks nice. I knew I wasn't submitting an original concept!

Nice work.

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Dragonwrought Kobold

Duskblade 2/ Fighter (Hit and Run)(Targeteer)2/ Barbarian 1 (Whirling Frenzy OR Ferocity)(Pounce)/ Berserker 1/ Suel Aracanamach 3/ Rage Mage 1/ Abjurant Champion 5 (2 flaws needed)

1 - Duskblade - Dragonwrought (Passion's Flame), Frantic Rage, Reckless Rage
2 - Duskblade - Combat Casting
3 - Barbarian - Weapon Focus (Dagger)
4 - Fighter - Vital Aim
5 - Fighter - Point Blank Shot
6 - Warblade - Precise Shot
7 - Suel Arcanamach -
8 - Suel Arcanamach -
9 - Suel Arcanamach - Martial Study (Shadow Jaunt or Cloak of Deception)
10 - Rage Mage -
11 - Abjurant Champion -
12 - Abjurant Champion - Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance)
13 - Abjurant Champion -
14 - Abjurant Champion -
15 - Abjurant Champion - Shadow Blade
16 - Berserker -
17 - Bloodstorm Blade -
18 - Bloodstorm Blade - Craven
19 - Bloodstorm Blade - Dead Eye
20 - Bloodstorm Blade -

+6 Dex / +6 Con / +2 Will / -4 AC (Passion's Flame)
+6 Dex / +2 Con / +2 Reflex / Flurry (Whirling Frenzy)
+8 Dex / + 8 Con / +3 Will / -4 AC (Battle Fury)
-----------------------------------------------
+20 Dex / +16 Con / +5 Will / +2 Reflex / -8 AC

3*Dex to damage on thrown daggers
2d6 + 20 + Dex on a sneak attack

Heroics for TWF, Gloves of the Balanced Hand for ITWF, Whirling Frenzy, Haste, +18 BAB = 8 attacks doing 4*Dex +2d6 + 20 (Greater Invisibility)
Every second round can be touch attacks, thanks to auto Extend Spell + Wraithstrike + Martial Throw.

Not too sure about spells... Some Ideas:

1 - Shield, silent image, Nerveskitter, Swift expeditous retreat, True Strike?
2 - detect thoughts, resist energy, Heroics (Two Weapn Fighting), Wraithstrike, Create Magic Tattoo?
3 - Haste, magic circle against evil? Unluck? Shivering Touch?
4 - Polymorph, Greater Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, Greater Resistance? Iron Bones?
5 - ?Undying Vigor of the Dragonlords? Greater Blink?

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Also, Id like to point out that nowhere in the description of Spell Rage does it say that there's any stat bonuses. The bonus is that you can cast spells while raging.

I'd go as far as to say Spell Rage shouldn't be considered a rage ability for the sake of the Reckless Rage feat.

[Amechra]

Hmmm, but it says at one part 'as a Barbarian', iirc.

[McPoyo]

Alright, so little swapping around, since a lot of the rage-like things don't actually function "as barbarian rage", and Spellfury doesn't give rage bonuses, it just modifies an existing rage to allow spellcasting, and frenzy isn't listed for most of these anyhow, here's the most I could come up with. This is based on the assumption that things boosting rage also boost their variants, as appropriate (Using ferocity with +str and +con abilities actually boosts Str and Dex instead, etc). Granted, I don't know if all of it could be worked into a single build, but...

Things needed: Wildrunner's Primal Scream, Ferocity Barbarian ACF, Feral Trance from Fist of the Forest, Half-orc Paragon's Rage (iffy), Runescarred Berserker prc, Frantic Rage, and Reckless Rage.

If all 10 levels of RB are taken (or anything that progresses barbarian to 11 for purposes of rage), you could conceivably end up with these stat modifiers, pre-frantic rage:
Ferocity (modified by Reckless Rage and Runescarred Berserker 8): Str and Dex +8
Primal Scream (Unmodifiable by anything, as it isn't a rage or have the "as barbarian" line in it anywhere): Str +2, Dex +6
Feral Trance (Same as Primal Scream): +4 Dex
Half-Orc Paragon's Rage (Same as ferocity, assuming a DM doesn't say it just adds an extra use to Ferocity and let's it function as rage, instead): Str and Con +8

Netting a total plus to stats, once rage and ferocity are adjusted for Frantic Rage, of: +34 Dex, +2 Str, +8 Con.

If effective barbarian level for Rage is at least 11 (netting the Greater x version), then the modifiers become: +40 Dex, +2 Str, +10 Con.

If the DM doesn't allow H-OP Rage to stand alone, and instead makes it modify Ferocity, then you end up with +26 Dex, +2 Str. Little less fun.

The question becomes, can this be done in few enough levels to make it worth it? Can it be squeezed into 20 levels, period?

Wildrunner and Half-orc Paragon necessitates three levels of Ruathar, unfortunately. I'm seeing one free level after everything listed here (Barb 1 (or 3), HoP 2, Ruathar 3, Wildrunner 2, FotF 1, RB 10 (or 8)). I don't think it can be done unless something else advances barbarian rage ability levels that I didn't notice, negating the need for the last two levels of RB/Barbarian. Frown. Required Feats make it tight, too.