Wound and Vitality Points?

[Prime32]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm

So who's used them?

I've considered a variant along the lines of this:

After a character is reduced to 0hp, further damage reduces their Con score.

Critical hits do not multiply damage but instead inflict damage to the target's Con score as an additional effect, equal to the hp damage of the attack minus double the victim's level/CR (eg. a 20th-level character struck by a crit that dealt 42 damage would take 2 points of Con damage). Weapons with crit multipliers above x2 lose them, and instead receive a +4 bonus on the confirmation roll for every additional +100% damage.

Whenever the target's Con score is targeted in this manner, the attacker and target make opposed level checks (NPCs and monsters use their CR). If the target wins, it is Constitution damage. If the attacker wins, it is Constitution drain.

The multiplier needs calibrating. Maybe halve the damage, then subtract level.

[RobbyPants]

I didn't like how swingy they made crits (although that's why some people love them).

Personally, I've been trying something where everyone takes half their damage as non-lethal damage.  On a crit, the weapon deals max normal damage (no multipliers) and all of it is lethal damage.  Also, I worked in a second wind mechanic where once per day, as a standard action, the PC can heal all of their non-lethal damage and remove the fatigued and exhausted conditions. 

I think it's pretty much the same line of thought as VP/WP, but I don't need to work up much in the way of new mechanics.  Also, it makes HP less abstract in the same way that VP/WP do.

[McPoyo]

Tried WP/VP once where crits just dealt the weapon's base damage only to con on a crit. It worked pretty well, but made crits hella nasty against the PCs.

[veekie]

It's a nice idea, but the whole crit thing really wrecks it, whoever came up with it had not accounted for the extremely high base damage at mid and late game, so crits always end fatally, particularly with damaging spells. There isn't a whole lot you can

It's a nice way to work health system variations off though.
I.e. critical fail on a save inflicts damage equal to the spell level in addition to the spell's normal damage to vp, critical hits inflict the weapon's base damage, while normal damage to vp remains.

[Nox_Noctis]

It might be a good fit for E6. Critical hits could still reduce people to 0 Wound Points but it wouldn't be as common, at least for characters who give a damn about their Constitution.

The thing I don't like about it actually is that people can get beaten to a pulp over and over again but as long as they make the save to avoid death [DC 15 Fortitude to avoid the Dying condition], they hover at 0 Wound Points. I think that's just ridiculous. If someone is at 0 Wound Points, I shouldn't have to nuke their save in order to force them to become Dying so that I can then hit them again with a Coup de Grace to force a saving throw at a much higher save DC.

The other thing that bothers me is the stunning effect of wound damage. If you land a critical hit, you also have a good chance to stunning for 1d4 rounds, which is a huge boon (save DC determined by damage).

Personally, I'd play it without stunning (someone who takes wound damage is already Fatigued, they don't need more punishment for getting hit) and rule that, once at 0 Wound Points, you die when your Wound Points reach negative half of your maximum Wound Points or negative 10, whichever is the lower number (the more negative number). This gives a bit of a buffer without the annoying issue of people never dying because they can make a DC 15 Fortitude save.

But I still wouldn't play it in a regular campaign. I really would be tempted to try it for E6.

[bkdubs123]

What if instead of WP and VP weapon crits work like this.

Player (Longsword): I roll a 19, with +11 to hit.
DM: That hits, and you score a critical!
Player (Longsword): Yes! That's 8 damage (max 1d8), plus my 4 from Strength for a total of 12, and 2 points of Constitution damage sucker!

So in other words the multiplier on weapons becomes instead a static amount of Constitution damage inflicted by the crit, and the standard hitpoint damage of the attack becomes maximized. I'd think though that if this were being used losing Con shouldn't temporarily decrease your hitpoints.

[weenog]

What if instead of WP and VP weapon crits work like this.

Player (Longsword): I roll a 19, with +11 to hit.
DM: That hits, and you score a critical!
Player (Longsword): Yes! That's 8 damage (max 1d8), plus my 4 from Strength for a total of 12, and 2 points of Constitution damage sucker!

So in other words the multiplier on weapons becomes instead a static amount of Constitution damage inflicted by the crit, and the standard hitpoint damage of the attack becomes maximized. I'd think though that if this were being used losing Con shouldn't temporarily decrease your hitpoints.

This seems like a big kick in the balls to power attackers and anyone relying on high Str.  Rogues, scouts, and anyone attacking with something like scorching ray or disintegrate likes the idea a lot, though.

EDIT: How would you handle critical hits with effects that don't deal hp damage under this system?  Enervation, for example.

[Ferret]

We use a pretty heavily houseruled version of wound/HP.

Wound Points start out equal to your CON score, and you gain your Con Modifier each level in Wound points, in addition to your normal increase in HP. Sneak Attacks do not deal +dice damage, rather they deal damage directly to WP (but are much harder to initiate).  We've done away with the Dying condition check - if you take damage that would put you negative, you're Dying, and need to be stabilized/healed as per the normal HP rules.

We like the grim and gritty of it. Crits/rogues are swingy, and combat is always -dangerous-.

I don't like standard attacks inflicting CON damage - I hate having to recalculate HP etc.

[bkdubs123]

This seems like a big kick in the balls to power attackers and anyone relying on high Str.

Hrm. Very true. It would require a much heavier time investiture on even more house rules so that Power Attack and high Str are again worth the effort. :/

EDIT: How would you handle critical hits with effects that don't deal hp damage under this system?  Enervation, for example.

The same way. An Enervation crit would bestow maximum negative levels and deal 2 points of Con damage. Again, I'd suggest making the Con damage NOT recalculate hitpoints, just for simplicity's sake.