yet another neutered core character (and another thinking out loud thread)

[altpersona]

will be joining yet another core campaign..

round here we dont have many groups to game with so im stuck with what i got..

i have the 3.5 core thread the work with.. 

the only stuff added to core is a custom skill focus, and use of warlock.

with warlock, it wont have any decent prc options, and idk if Carc feats will be available to help it out..

so, im trying not to go warlock 20... warlock 12 is very tempting, just for the creation bits.. but then the only way to go epic is W. 20...

i have a general preference for npc class's. which i know is against every sacred belief on the boards, and in particular the DM.

this makes commoner 20 more tempting than warlock 20.  (C. 20 archer/face i suppose)

im also considering human/half orc/half elf : barbarian 2/sorc 1 / X2 / HW1 / DD10 / duelist2 /shadow dancer2

this would be an unarmed, unarmored rage focus.. (i know it sucks..)

its rage 1 per day (might be able to swing extra rage)
no fatigue from HW
buff from sorc : mage armor / shield
claw/bite
26/30? ish str normal/rage.  (+2 more if half orc)
natural armor +4
evaision
imp uncanny dodge
darkvision
18 or 19 bab


im trying to get paragons ok'd.. if they fly then i think half orc pargon/ orc paragon /human paragon for +4 str and stuff..

got to go to work now, will blabber more in a couple hours..

[RobbyPants]

Well, it's certainly an odd build, and I'll give you points for that.  What exactly is it that you're looking for?  Critique on the build?

Also, what was the deal you mentioned with warlock?  You're not going to include it in that build, are you?

[SixthDeclension]

Yes, that post was, well, all over the place. I dont know what to get from that. Warlock 20, then Barbarian Sorceror, all core. :confused

[altpersona]

"(and another thinking out loud thread)"

i guess to simplify the op, i have this core + warlock game coming up.. and im hashing through what i want to play.

no one else in the group has a firm grasp on how to get the most out of 20 levels..

most disagree the basic druid>=cleric>=wiz>the rest

you should see the look i got when i went over the uses of Alter self... all movements, speed 60, and a free feat, and size +/- 1 (read this is a halfling imitating a pixie (tiny/flying))... and its the DM's that dont know this stuff..

that is to say, if im going to kick ass, it might as well be with a commoner..

im currently looking at some way to take npc levels not more than 3 or 4.. and reign supreme..

if i cant get happy with an npc based build, then im leaning toward a light basher...

it just gauls me a bit to start with regular class's...

im trying to get paragons approved.. that  would satisfy my npc class urge.. or nearly..

[RobbyPants]

im currently looking at some way to take npc levels not more than 3 or 4.. and reign supreme..

Well, if you really want to take NPC class levels, there's no reason to take commoner or warrior, as they're weaker in every way than PC classes.

You could try to form an argument for aristocrat, expert, and maybe even the adept.  Obviously they're weaker than PC classes too, but at least each of them get something a little different (class skills in the first two cases, and a unique spell list for the adept).

[altpersona]

my last two npc class'ed characters did very well, one was an aristocrat and the other an expert...

if i can use paragon, i have my build done, its totally fubar by CO standards... but it hits like a mad man.. basically halfelf sorc1 or 4 / h elf paragon 3 / human paragon 3 / dragon disciple 10. if i only do sorc 1, i have 3 levels to play with..

his str is 34 without magic or items, hits 40 to 50 with them.. bab is terrible, claws, bite, wings, breath weapon..

if i cant get paragons, then its back to the drawing board...

[RobbyPants]

If your DM understands anything about game balance, I doubt he'll have a problem with the paragon class levels.

[altpersona]

for being two letters, 'if' is a big word..

no one i know irl understands the game.

[ninjarabbit]

I hate how too many people think Core = balanced. If anything core is more unbalanced since 90% of the broken spells are in core and the non-spellcasters are basically screwed in a core environment.

[altpersona]

the choir says amen..

hafling adept is sounding cool atm.. i think its the only divine caster that gets a familiar...

adept 10 / shadowdancer 10 , third levels spells.. and stuff..

not alot of prc options... cant get blackgaurd with out taking 2 levels of full bab somewhere.. i guess i could do that if things go evil..

[awaken DM golem]

Well then, get a PAO as early as DM will allow, heh.
Commoner 14 should be able to get a Warlock 12 cohort, and have it make Bunko's for you.
Somebody once posted Cow Control for a Commoner 10. Trample = win.

You could play a Druid up til it's silly and then go Commoner.


This is a side conversation, on the terrible conditions of our Schools.
I you can't teach them, maybe Obama can.

[altpersona]

hmmm

halfling adept5/assassin3/MT10/ and either BG or assassin to finish it..

that would push assassin casting past its original progression.. it stops at 10, mt would make it 13.. i dont think that works does it?

human vs. half elf vs. halfling vs.gnome

feat vs. stuff vs. +dex  and size vs. +con and size

A5/Ass3/MT10/BG2 vs. A5/Ass3/MT10/Ass2 vs. A5/Ass3/MT10/DD2 vs. A5/Ass3/M9/DD3

if i could get lesser planar ally i would like to do thaum

i think assassin 5 is preferable to BG2, i could shave some MT off , and have more BG... or DD2 for +2 str /claws / bite / 2 extra spells and if MT9/DD3 then 2D breath weapon..

but if evil were to be a problem, i expect it would, then its back again to the drawing board..

i wonder if i can get em to ok Magewright from Ebb. that would be a nice MT10


my head hurts..


heh its the schools fault... heh

[altpersona]

abilities would need to be

12 wis by level 4, 13 by 13th, 14 by 18th
11 int by level 6, 12 by 8th, 13 by 10th and 14 by 12th
BG casting would be already covered...

its 25 pt buy, looks like i can make 3 12s and 3 14s at 20th just from level bonus's..

or i could pump one ability of course... 1 @ 17, 3 @ 10, 1 @ 9, 1 @ 11,

17 in int fill wis at levels..for 16 wis @ 20

[altpersona]

just got my updated book list

core
US
books of Eldrich might 1 and 2 from monte cook
encyclopedias from mongoose
quintesentials from mongoose

some house rule races varients.. ill have to look over those, but i dont ill use them..

time to read abit i guess..

[altpersona]

game day has come and gone.

i ended up with an middle aged human expert. in order to go wiz later i had to take 'magical training' as a feat this provides 3 0 level spells 1 per day each... my other level 1 feat was/is skill focus spellcraft

after 32 point buy and +1/-1 from middle age i have these stats
str 12
dex 11
con 14
int  18
wis  10
cha 10

44 skill points 10 class skills, i had to take cross class to finish out my skills.

the character premise was set when i walked in the room and the fighter was talking about obtaining a manservant.. a perfect opening..

we ended up being

LG human cleric >first dnd game for her.
CG elf wiz >modified elf +2int
LE human fighter ,
LN human expert, er i mean butler.

we are in some run of the mill module.. bugbears, goblins, hobgobs... good times..

we nearly all died of course, it took awhile for my party to realize that im not 'combat ready' heh.

i was the first person to top 1k xp.. rp bonus's pay off at first level i guess..  we leveled by the time we were ready to stop..

i had intended to go aristocrat1/wiz5/ek10/arcmage4

now im temped to take another level of expert.. since i dont qual for EK , +1 bab +1 will save, vs wiz 0 bab + spells..

i know spells should win for CO, but its tempting none the less

i guess i could go expert x / wiz 3 / cleric 3 /MT 10/AM x

my intent for now is utility...

[RobbyPants]

Well, I guess that depends on what you mean by utility.  Spells certainly qualify in many senses of the word.  That, and since you already have 10 class skills from Expert, you can multiclass freely and keep several of those skills at max ranks.

[altpersona]

i almost forgot, expert 2 means i can max my synergies across the board,

really, i need to work it up both expert 2 and ex1/wiz1 and see how it looks..

[altpersona]

until a couple minutes ago i was very seriously considering Ex/Wiz/Cl/MT10/AcrM/Hiero

then i remembered i have balls for wisdom.. (10)

with only level bonus's i can only get to 15 wis @ 20th.. so no Hiero, and i had thought that hiero advanced casting, it dosnt.. double balls..

more over, relating to MT, i need second level divine casting (wis 12) by 7th lvl, and i cant get it till 8th... unless i waste another caster level..

if, i can solve the wisdom issue by 4th level... then i could consider replacing hiero with thaum...

maybe i just say screw it, and do Exp1/Wiz1/Cleric1/Exp17 should be pretty utilitarian.. and thematically sound..

more likely Exp4/wiz3/C3/MT10 for 7@7 if pick up 2 extra points of wis by 14 level..

if i do that latter, 'they' will think im power gaming.. hell if i do any of it, they will think that..

[chibishuffle]

ummmm in a core game why fiddle and make things overly complex when dwarven druid 20 is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing ever in core.

[altpersona]

a. iv played enough druids to last me awhile..
b. ridiculous has so many flavors..
c. i prefer pun pun at level 1 to pun pun at level 3... (not that anything i have posted is pun pun, its just a comparison)


I fully expect that my non CO support character will at all stages of the game be capable of owning the rest of the party.  it seems i know their weakness's better than they do. not that its a completion.. i came very close to agreeing to commoner 20.