Author Topic: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.  (Read 11170 times)

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AvalonŽ

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I'm looking for ways to make an opponent flat-footed for things like sudden strike and Iaijutsu strikes.

So aside from going first via initiative and hitting them with a grease spell, what else is there?

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jameswilliamogle

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Use bluff to feint*

charge them using the neraph charge feat*

throw a weapon at them using the neraph throw feat*

be invisible*

be "blink"ed*

hide*

* These things don't make an opponent flat-footed, but do deny them to get their Dex-modifier, doing what you want to do.  Only the Dire Tortoise trick actually makes them flat-footed.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 11:04:21 AM by jameswilliamogle »

woodenbandman

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Does blink make them flat footed?

What about teleporting directly behind them? Logic dictates that your feet'd be pretty flat if that happened, but I can't find the part of the rules for that.

jameswilliamogle

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Does blink make them flat footed?

What about teleporting directly behind them? Logic dictates that your feet'd be pretty flat if that happened, but I can't find the part of the rules for that.
Actually, none of that stuff makes them flatfooted.  Only the Dire Tortoise does that.  The rest of those make the opponent unable to use their Dex mod to AC, which helps the OP.

Making someone flatfooted is way harder to do.

Smudgy

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Distract Assailant(SpC), swift action casting, make's one opponent flatfooted. But it's an enchantment[mind-affecting] with allowed spell resistance. It's a 1st level spell too, so the DC would be low if you didn't heighten it.

But at low levels it's not bad.

noheat

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Acrobatic Backstab skill trick from Complete Scoundrel page 84.

Negative Zero

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IIRC, anyone who makes a balance check is flat-footed unless they have 5 or more ranks in Balance. Grease makes people make Balance checks.

Mogui

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Suprising Riposte feat from Drow of the Underdark makes people flat footed.

It has some pre-requisites to it that you need.

See my post a little farther down for a build I am working on.  You might like it.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3749.0

Still looking for other suggestions if anyone has any.

espher

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I've been looking for stuff like this as well since I've built a disarm-focused PrC which gives you a chance to daze a flat-footed foe when you disarm them.

Aside from what's been mentioned, you also have the following skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel:
Acrobatic Strike (mentioned)
Hidden Weapon
Sudden Draw


woodenbandman

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Re: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 12:24:31 PM »
Teleportation makes people lose their dex bonus? Source?

bogsnes

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Re: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 12:33:54 PM »
There wasn't any - He said it would be logical that they become flat-footed if you teleport directly behind them, nothing more...

Silent Wayfarer

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Re: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2009, 12:38:43 PM »
IIRC, one of the Nightmare Blade maneuvers from the Diamond Mind martial discipline (Sapphire Nightmare Blade, IIRC) makes your opponent flatfooted as a standard action attack. Note that Iaijutsu works off any attack against a flatfooted opponent, so there is no disadvantage to using the maneuver to deliver the attack.

bogsnes

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Re: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2009, 12:40:46 PM »
IIRC, one of the Nightmare Blade maneuvers from the Diamond Mind martial discipline (Sapphire Nightmare Blade, IIRC) makes your opponent flatfooted as a standard action attack. Note that Iaijutsu works off any attack against a flatfooted opponent, so there is no disadvantage to using the maneuver to deliver the attack.

Except you can't use a full-attack...

Akalsaris

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Re: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2009, 02:27:16 AM »
Yeah, but sapphire nightmare blade is 1st level, so you can't even full attack anyways.  But 2d6 base+1d6 nightmare blade+1d6 iajutsu + strength is pretty strong at 1st level, especially since you grant the party rogue/ninja/whatever sneak attack as well.

Silent Wayfarer

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Re: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2009, 02:34:23 AM »
IIRC, one of the Nightmare Blade maneuvers from the Diamond Mind martial discipline (Sapphire Nightmare Blade, IIRC) makes your opponent flatfooted as a standard action attack. Note that Iaijutsu works off any attack against a flatfooted opponent, so there is no disadvantage to using the maneuver to deliver the attack.

Except you can't use a full-attack...

Depends on your reading of iaijutsu focus: it says you get your damage dice when you attack a flatfooted opponent immediately after drawing your weapon. Do iterative attacks count as "immediately after drawing your weapon"? Unless you make like Date Masamune from Sengoku Basara and carry six katanas at one time...

Akalsaris

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Re: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2009, 06:24:54 PM »
On a completely unrelated sidenote, I used to live in Japan, and my house was a block away from Date Masamune's old residence in Aizu before his mother tried to poison him and he killed his younger brother.  He was probably the most hardcore daimyo out there in RL - I can only imagine what he's like in a videogame.

Farodin

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Re: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2009, 07:53:04 PM »
Marbles (Arms & Equipment guide methinks)

They work like grease, but can be dropped as a free action in an adjacent square. Only disadvantage is that you probably need a free hand (and the source is a bit iffy).
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Bozwevial

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Re: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2009, 11:20:58 PM »
Eh, non-updated 3.0 is fair game.

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Re: Flat-footed goodness. Optimizing ways to make an opponent flat-footed.
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2009, 11:48:44 PM »
IIRC, one of the Nightmare Blade maneuvers from the Diamond Mind martial discipline (Sapphire Nightmare Blade, IIRC) makes your opponent flatfooted as a standard action attack. Note that Iaijutsu works off any attack against a flatfooted opponent, so there is no disadvantage to using the maneuver to deliver the attack.

Except you can't use a full-attack...
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