Convince me about psionics.

[Risada]

I have to say though, I still think that psionics is too weak. I've heard rumors of a power revision/expansion. Where can I find this?

Lycan made it. It's awesome (but I couldn't try it yet)...

Sadly I can't find it on my PC right now...

*wonders if Lycan can post it here  *

[Lycanthromancer]

My original post on the Gleemax forums is here.

Psionics is made stronger altogether, but I did my best to reinvent psionics as a balanced, playable system, with few loopholes and overpowered combos to exploit. There are still combinations which kick arse, but they aren't as obviously b0rked as, say, mind rape + love's pain is.

I also tried to give the system more low-level powers that can be used as the focus of a character build. Psionic charm and astral construct can easily be central throughout a character's career, but attempting the same with something like energy ray is going to leave you burned in the long run. With the additional options I added, however, you can make energy ray the center of your build fairly easily.

Regardless, don't compare to the Big Five (Six?). That's a crap-shoot for any (non-Big Five) build short of Pun Pun. Instead, take a look at what a manifester can do against opponents of appropriate CR, and see how useful they can be. Look at all the things a single manifester can do, and how many ways he can make himself useful to a given party.

[rubberduck]

this topic seems to be about pointing out combos that can be done with psionics^^

we should collect this knowledge and put it somewhere!

oh and by the way:
psions have save or die/suck powers for every save

crystalise                        - fort (you turn into a crytal)
psychic crush(and others)  - will (die!, be dominated etc...)
ectoplasmic cocoon           - reflex (wrapped in a cocoon and helpless=dead)

[Lycanthromancer]

Don't forget that psions can take psychic warrior powers, too (assuming EK or research) and generally can do so before a psywar can.

Also, check out my list of powers on this thread. Sure it's for a warlock gestalt, but you should be able to glean a few things from it.

[PhaedrusXY]

ectoplasmic cocoon           - reflex (wrapped in a cocoon and helpless=dead)

Well... not quite. We always interpreted this as they aren't targetable. So yeah, you can set something up to try and kill them, but you can't just Coup De Grace and autokill them like you can someone who failed vs Hold Person or something.

[Lycanthromancer]

With the right equipment or tactics, though, you CAN kill them when cocooned. See: brilliant energy/ghost touch weapons, and Burrowing Power as well.

[Negative Zero]

You could throw the cocoon into a volcano or Psionic Fabricate a bunch of traps around it or drill a tiny hole and Psionic Minor Create a bunch of Black Lotus Extract in it or something.

[Lycanthromancer]

Cocoons allow air to pass through normally.

So deny that.

Toss 'em in a lake or into a puddle of poison you made.

[RobbyPants]

...or a puddle of water even. 

[PhaedrusXY]

Yes, but none of this helps you when your party is standing in the middle of a forest with no streams or lakes (or volcanoes...) nearby, and no one has burrowing power or any of that crap. So yeah, if you've planned ahead to use these kinds of tactics, and took the appropriate feats, spells, etc, you can do it. But if you haven't, there are plenty of situations where you can't. And it still isn't as trivial as just walking up and stabbing someone under a Hold Person, in any case. That was my point.

[Farodin]

Overchannel + Split Psionic Ray + Chained Power + psicrystal + shared metamorphosis + schism (to bypass immunity to the [mind-affecting] tag) = 8 rays per round. Charge it up each morning with a sonic energy wall, and that's 45 sonic damage x 8 = 360 damage per round. Add on Greater Psionic Shot + Aligned Attack + a greater chasuble of fell power for an additional 7d6 points of damage.

Nice. I saw the Split Energy Conversion before somewhere, but never thought of sharing it with a psicrystal or chaining it. Just one question: what is Schism for exactly? just to allow you to do other stuff at the same time? or am I missing something? (what [mind-affecting] tag?)

Other question: Psionic Split Ray seems to only affect two different targets, unlike the arcane version. Am I reading this right?

[Operation Shoestring]

How far does transparency go?  When I DM'ed I went all the way.  Psycraft *is* spellcraft.  True Seeing *is* Metafaculty, and can counterspell it. (the latter is kinda iffy though.)

So what about Extend spell = Extend Power?  Given that 99% of psionic buffs are personal range, what about persist spell = persist power?  Heck, my psion with feat leech could borrow the requisite feats from the party cleric at the start of the day (and then give them back so the cleric can persist).

[TheWordSlinger]

Overchannel + Split Psionic Ray + Chained Power + psicrystal + shared metamorphosis + schism (to bypass immunity to the [mind-affecting] tag) = 8 rays per round. Charge it up each morning with a sonic energy wall, and that's 45 sonic damage x 8 = 360 damage per round. Add on Greater Psionic Shot + Aligned Attack + a greater chasuble of fell power for an additional 7d6 points of damage.

Nice. I saw the Split Energy Conversion before somewhere, but never thought of sharing it with a psicrystal or chaining it. Just one question: what is Schism for exactly? just to allow you to do other stuff at the same time? or am I missing something? (what [mind-affecting] tag?)

Other question: Psionic Split Ray seems to only affect two different targets, unlike the arcane version. Am I reading this right?

Schism is for having more mental standard actions to fire off more rays, I believe. Schism has the [Mind-Affecting] tag and your construct Psicrysal is therefore immune to it when not Metamorphosis'd.

[Lycanthromancer]

Schism is for having more mental standard actions to fire off more rays, I believe. Schism has the [Mind-Affecting] tag and your construct Psicrysal is therefore immune to it when not Metamorphosis'd.

Sorry princess, but your answer is in another castle.

...

...

I lie. You are quite correct.

[Operation Shoestring]

I remember people claiming schism is overpowered.

My reply?  Compare it with Imbue Familiar with Spell ability.  So Yeah.....

There really needs to be a fic that makes psions viable buffers.  Seems like virtually all psionic buffs are self only.

[Lycanthromancer]

Well, my powers revision deals with this nicely.

Then again, you could always homebrew a metafeat for it.

[Surreal]

There really needs to be a fic that makes psions viable buffers.  Seems like virtually all psionic buffs are self only.

Hmm, how about applying War Weaver to psionics?

[Operation Shoestring]

There really needs to be a fic that makes psions viable buffers.  Seems like virtually all psionic buffs are self only.

Hmm, how about applying War Weaver to psionics?

Doesn't solve the self only problem.  If we have a metapsionic only feat that makes personal range spells touch, as lycan suggested, then we can start to do something.  There have to be some sort of limits on it though.

[awaken DM golem]

If you're still not sure about Psi- , then consider a recharge set-up.
It's not overpowered with the short list manifesters, like PsyWar or Lurk or Divine Mind, up to and including Wilder and Ardent.
They all don't have enough powers known to really screw things up.
Some infrastructure investment, like Bestow Power, Leadership slightly limited , feats , skills , just get those discounts.
Somewhere around 10th to 15th level, you are really good.
Psions or Erudites with this are bordering on broken good , from 6th level to 15th level.
But even with recharge, the lack of 9th level spell options, un-breaks the combo.

In current parlance ... Wilder and Ardent recharge are Tier 1 from 10th to 15th level,
but Wilder sags above that, Ardent depends very much on what the DM will allow with Mind's Eye Substitute Powers.
Psion with recharge is High Tier 1 from 6th level up, but has to take different tactics when the 9s show up.
Erudite with recharge is silly. Is there a Tier 0 (zero) ?!

Divine Mind is about equal to an Adept.
Divine Mine with Recharge, like Consumption Aura and someone else having recharge, isn't as good as a Warlock (ouch).

[Tshern]

How far does transparency go?  When I DM'ed I went all the way.  Psycraft *is* spellcraft.  True Seeing *is* Metafaculty, and can counterspell it. (the latter is kinda iffy though.)

So what about Extend spell = Extend Power?  Given that 99% of psionic buffs are personal range, what about persist spell = persist power?  Heck, my psion with feat leech could borrow the requisite feats from the party cleric at the start of the day (and then give them back so the cleric can persist).

How does the bolded one make any sense?