Equalizing Modern Classes with D&D Classes for crossovers (three ideas)

[MasterVega]

What is it that makes D20Modern classes weaker than D&D classes? Is it the lower saves, the generally lower BAB, or perhaps the lack of direction from the beginning? Is it the fact that the "capstones" aren't tremendously powerful, or maybe all of the abilities are lackluster? I used to think the class bonus to defense, and the sheer number of bonus feats modern characters receive (they make fighters cry themselves to sleep) worked well as a balance for the two games. Having gone back and read my Modern collection and my D&D collection side-by-side, though, the difference is a lot clearer.

Now, before the bashing happens, I'm not powering up Modern classes for a Modern game. That'd ruin the feel unless you want to play a superhero game, which Orion has already done a fine job taking care of.

I'm trying to create general (or specific if need-be) power-ups for D20Modern for instances where Modern and D&D collide, whether it's the astronaut plane-shifted on an experimental mission, some poor guy pulled off into another world by a wizard claiming he has a destiny, a clash of modern and magical cultures, or any number of situations.

My ideas are as follows:

1. I could simply up the Modern characters' saves and BAB, eliminating the Normal saves and replacing them with Good saves, pushing Fast, Tough, and Dedicated Hero to full BAB, Smart and Charismatic to 3/4, and giving some other bonus to Strong Hero. I'd adjust the other classes likewise (except the current brokenness that is Martial Artist... probably the only class in Modern that can show up it's D&D counterpart if built/played correctly.)

2. I could power up the base classes' talents, and the advanced classes' abilities.

3. I could make templates for each class like I did with the D&D Core (plus two) classes. Note that these would NOT be balanced against my D&D templates. That would be rediculous (or would it? Discuss if you like)... If I end up running a cross-over campaign, I'll be powering spellcasters down a bit.


Note: I'm not abandoning my other projects. My brain project-jumps a lot.

[Orion]

First, thanks for the shout-out.

Second, I think you want to be careful to reserve this 'beefed-up' d20M for cross-over games, as you say. There's a reason that the base/advanced classes are weaker. There is no healing in the modern world (unless you're playing a heavy F/X game), so characters need to have a diminished ability to do damage to each other in order to keep your characters from constantly dying. I have always assumed that was why, for example, the non-lethal damage rules are so different in d20M than D&D. So I like where you're going with this, and I'd like to see samples, but I wanted to throw out those two cautionary notes.

[MasterVega]

Anytime, man. It's a good system from what I've seen.

As for limiting this to crossovers, yeah, those were my thoughts exactly. Modern makes D&D look like a cakewalk with its massive damage rules and lack of healing/resurrection for the most part... and it should be that way. This is for the badass marine who gets sucked into an alternate world and needs to kick face like the PCs of that realm, or for the mundane technomancer competing against an actual mage on the field of battle.
So you'd like a sample of each approach, or did you have a particular approach that you wanted to see?

[Prime32]

What about using action points, but only for Modern characters?

[veekie]

Using Wound Points would also free up Modern stuff to hit harder(not that talents tend to add to damage in general anyway) without a plentitude of magic healing, since most of the damage is just fatigue. That'd give you more leeway for amping the modern stuff up.

[MasterVega]

Prime32 - Though that's a good idea, and probably balances out Modern with D&D at lower levels, at higher levels there are abilities and spells that can be used more often (considering AP are finite, unless that gets houserulled... hmm... AP-activated special abilities... I could look into those some) and do the same thing or better.

Veekie - Is this an option to make the powerups usable in a normal Modern game, or was it a suggestion for a human crossing over into a fantasy setting?

Oh, and thanks for the replies so far.

[veekie]

The former, what WP does is basically remove the need for magical healing for typical fights, so you can crank up the damage and stuff without worrying that the modern PC is going to need a month of bed rest after a fight.

[MasterVega]

Alright. I'm planning on designing these for an HP system (in that I'll be assuming X number of damage should actually hurt), basically to function in D&D, but from what I've seen - I played a session of Star Wars, Revised - there isn't really any conversion needed from Wound/Vitality games.
Thanks for the tip. I personally won't be using these in my normal modern games, but it's W/V is a good way to go for those who might want to.

[MasterVega]

[spoiler=Sample of Correction Type One]
Strong Hero
- Fort becomes good and not moderate.
- HD becomes a D10
- Ignore Hardness talent tree now ignores two hardness for every one it would ignore under previous rules [and thereby becomes actually useful].*
- Gains 4 skills per level (not counting human skillpoint) instead of three (counting the human skillpoint).

Fast Hero
- Ref becomes good and not moderate.
- BAB becomes full and not 3/4.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Sample of Correction Type Two]
Strong Hero
- Ignore Hardness talent tree now ignores four hardness for every one it would ignore under previous rules. It also ignores two points of damage reduction for each level of the talent gained.
- Melee Smash talent now adds 2 damage for every one it would ignore under previous rules.
- Extree Effort Double all bonuses given by each talent in the tree.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Sample of Correction Type Three]
Strong Hero
Brawler:
(1st level) Combat Fever - As a fight stretches on, a Brawler enters his "zone", becoming more fierce with each passing second.
Effect: When the Brawler makes his first successful attack during battle, he gains a +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls. Every round thereafter, as long as he does not go three rounds without a successful attack, the bonus to attack and damage rolls increases by 1. If the Brawler fails to land an attack in three rounds, the effect of this ability ends. The bonus gained from this ability may not exceed the character's Strong Hero level.
(5th level) Defensive Fever - Now something beyond a simple feel for combat, the Brawler's Combat Fever allows him greater defense. For every +2 morale he gains to attack and damage, the Brawler gains a +1 morale bonus to defense (or AC, if you prefer the term).
(10th level) Flurried Fever - When the Brawler's adrenaline kicks in full-force, time slows for him and multiple additional attacks become possible. For every +5 morale bonus he gains to attack and damage, the Brawler gains the option to make an additional attack at his highest base attack bonus. For every additional attack granted by this ability, the brawler takes a cumulative -2 penalty on every attack made until his next turn.

There will be three templates for each class. This is simply a sample, so I didn't want to write everything out just incase you guys found one of my other ideas, or one of your ideas (please share), better.

Note: an idea I had for route three is that, instead of having the templates class-dependent, they could be initiated by a single level in the class, and then for the next ten levels that is the only template that can be advanced. This prevents uberdipping by accident/on purpose, which is important seeing as Modern requires multiclassing for characters above level ten, and encourages it far earlier.[/spoiler]

*I fix this talent in my games anyway.