Author Topic: Is this overpowered?  (Read 2232 times)

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Archmage Joda

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Is this overpowered?
« on: October 28, 2008, 04:25:18 AM »
The Red Wizard. A 3.5 FR prestige class that is for the most part untastic. The only real feature here is circle magic, the usefulness of which is directly proportional to the number of other casters one can bring into the circle.

What I ask if it's overpowered is the notion of converting circle magic to a chain of feats, rather than a prestige class. My example thoughts are as follows:

Tattoo Focus - Just as presented in the 3.5 DMG

Circle Leader
Prerequisites: Tattoo Focus, Arcane Caster lvl 10th (earliest circle magic would normally be gained)
Benefit: As Circle Leader ability of Red Wizard and Hathran

Improved Circle Leader:
Prerequisites: Tattoo Focus, Circle Leader, Arcane Caster lvl 15th
Benefit: As Great Circle Leader

So, what do you think? Too much? All opinions appreciated, as long as they are actually opinions and not just telling me how much I suck like the vacuum of space.
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Elennsar

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Re: Is this overpowered?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 04:31:49 AM »
One thing that heavily influences it being under or overpowered is how often it can be used.

I mean, being able to do +50 damage 1/day vs. being able to do +5 damage on all attack rolls...I'd generally be more worried about the latter.

I'd give a better answer if I knew from memory what exactly is required for circle magic, so I'll update this later. But that's something to be remembered regardless of how beneficial it is to have it when it can be used.
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Psychic Robot

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Re: Is this overpowered?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 04:33:46 AM »
In my most humble opinion, the red wizard's abilities should be available to all spellcasters.  Go for it.

Archmage Joda

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Re: Is this overpowered?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 04:38:22 AM »
One thing that heavily influences it being under or overpowered is how often it can be used.

I mean, being able to do +50 damage 1/day vs. being able to do +5 damage on all attack rolls...I'd generally be more worried about the latter.

I'd give a better answer if I knew from memory what exactly is required for circle magic, so I'll update this later. But that's something to be remembered regardless of how beneficial it is to have it when it can be used.

Well, with circle magic, the only real limit on how much it can be used is practicality. The ritual takes an hour per shot, and requires casters other than you to step in and each cast a spell. You can boost caster level, and apply empower, maximize, and/or heighten to spells without increasing spell level, but these are all limited by the total spell levels from your buddies.

The way I see it, practicality imposes a limit here, since I doubt a party will want to devote the number of hours waiting for the caster to really jack things up with it, and PC casters wouldn't likely want to use vary many powerful spell slots for that, and NPC casters tend to have more limited ability to contribute.

Also, I was considering scrapping Tattoo Focus and using Spell Focus in its place, since aside from qualifying for Red Wizard, they do basically the same thing.
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X-Codes

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Re: Is this overpowered?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 05:19:19 AM »
Scrapping Tattoo Focus is a good idea.  That said, Circle Magic has high potential to get extremely out of hand by breaking the CL mechanics by making spells last way longer than they really should have or have variables way higher than any normal character could manage, kinda like Persistent Spell and the many ways around the +6 level adjustment.

All that said, Red Wizard is strictly Tier 2.  The forced enhanced specialization of the class really takes away the possibility of winning the game every way possible that a standard Wizard can typically do.

Elennsar

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Re: Is this overpowered?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 05:21:41 AM »
On the other hand, that means that having it freely available to anyone who meets the caster level requirements, but doesn't have to specialize...

That someone is going to be the legendary tier 0 if you're not careful.
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Omen of Peace

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Re: Is this overpowered?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 01:41:32 PM »
Optimization-wise, Circle magic is not ok as a feat since as people pointed out it can become really overpowered easily. Now, if you know your group won't abuse it then go for it. I find rituals a really cool trope and it's pretty much the right way to do it (before the brokenness of Epic Spellcasting... Cooperative Spell doesn't count since it sucks).
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