Author Topic: help with a paladin race/feats/template.  (Read 4127 times)

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TryMeIke

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help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« on: October 15, 2011, 03:49:45 PM »
alright. I am playing a 3.5 game and got REALLY lucky on my rolls. I am wondering if I could have any help on playing an optimized paladin with these base stats:

Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 18
Int: 14
Wis and Cha: 18.

any race/feat/template suggestions for optimizing my paladin?

edit: we're allowed to start with 2 magic items of our choice as long as they are non-epic. anything I could get that increases all my stats/ caster level when I get spells? I'm thinking belt of magnificnce +6 and bead of karma. any other suggestions? starting level one, and all books. I dunno what the rest of the party is doing. however, I only have player's handbook, complete arcane, complete adventurer, dragon magic, spell compendium, monster manual and monster manual 2. I was thinking of going half-ceilestial, cuz paladins don't lose that much from it and we get to pay off level adjustment and only get half level adjustment to begin with. does that sound good? this is my first time playing. I feel fairly comfortable with the rules though. second edit: I also just learned we are going gestalt. I want to choose warmage for allowing magical offence. does gestalt paladin/warmage compare at all to gestate paladin/sorcerer? edit: so, here are the updates on my stats. half-celestial human gestalt paladin/warmage. bead of karma, belt of magnificance +6 str: 28 dex: 20 con: 28 int: 22 wis: 28 cha 28. warmage edge: +6
armored mage: light.
smite evil 2/day.
daylight/at will.
bless/1 a day.
protection from evil 3/day
darkvision 60 feet.
spell resistance 11
damage reduction 5/magic.
detect evil/ at will
aura of good.
aric, cold, electricity resistance 10
immunity to disease

equipment
chain shirt.
greatsword.
spell component pouch times 3.

spells: 0th level: 5 a day, 4 known
1st level, 6 a day, 13 known.'

improved inititive, powerr attack, arcane mastery, arcane preparation and 3 more feats. 24 skill points.

considering we are going gestalt, I want more focus on the warmage/rainbow serpent part. feats like arcane preperation and arcane master, seem good. any other good feats for that part? I'll be getting those two and improved inititive/power attack. leaving three feats left.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 05:29:11 PM by TryMeIke »

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2011, 03:55:56 PM »
This depends entirely on what you want to do.  Melee types generally have two optimized routes to take: lockdown or DPS (usually including ubercharging).

Belt of Magnificence +6 is definitely one of the items you should pick, but a Bead of Karma isn't all that hot.

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2011, 03:57:24 PM »
This depends entirely on what you want to do.  Melee types generally have two optimized routes to take: lockdown or DPS (usually including ubercharging).

err, care to explain those? ^^ I guess I am not as good at the rules as I thought. how do either of those work?

edit: it's plus 4 caster level though, so a level 20 paladin is caster level 14. a good deal better then a normal paladin 20... and with adding warmage, it's a lot more useful.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 04:12:40 PM by TryMeIke »

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2011, 04:13:08 PM »
You're starting at level 1, though, so a bead of karma is dead weight for your first 3 levels, and for your next 7 or so you only have, at most, a half-dozen spells.  What's more, you have free reign to pick up items worth 200kgp, while a bead of karma is a mere 20k.  This assumes you even go with Paladin casting, which may or may not be a good idea.

Anyway, Lockdown means using attacks of opportunity, tripping, and increasing your threatened area to basically keep everything in a large radius from doing anything.  It's the 3.5e version of tanking, even though you yourself aren't going to be able to take much punishment for long.

DPS (or, rather, DPR), means dealing enough damage in a round to ensure that whatever it is you're attacking will absolutely die.  It's typically done by getting a full attack after some kind of move (such as a charge, which you get with the Pounce ability, teleporting, called Shadow Pouncing, or somehow getting extra actions to move first and do your full attack later).  As a Paladin, you're liable to want to do some mounted charging, which can be difficult, but is certainly not impossible.

I forgot, but there is also a casting route you can take.  This actually demands that you start as a Cleric and then go into Prestige Paladin from UA.  You get the same abilities, but a way better spell progression at the cost of some feat taxes.

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2011, 04:17:10 PM »
I see. well, I will think about being an lockdown paladin/warmage then. any feat suggestions? and skill suggestions? I'll have 5 skill points per level and want to know where to put them. knowledge: religion and arcana, spellcraft, concentration and diplomacy seems worth it. we also get five flaws for five feats. so I get 6 starting feats.

Maat_Mons

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2011, 04:30:04 PM »
A cowl of warding (Magic of Faerun) gives you continuous mind blank and freedom of movement and turns 6 levels of spells per day, as spell turning.  It costs 200,800 gp and takes up the head slot. 

For the other side, how do you feel about ardent (Complete Psionic)?  They can easily do direct offense, are based on wisdom (which you have an 18 in anyway), can easily branch out beyond direct offense without falling behind on it, and have no problem with armor. 

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2011, 04:32:02 PM »
problem is, I don't HAVE complete pisonic or magic of feyran/however you spell it. I have also decided my magic items already, I just need to decide feats/skills.

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2011, 04:45:28 PM »
Warmage is terrible for your stats.  If you want to be a lockdown caster, you have a few options.  A less impressive spell casting route would be Paladin 4/Sorcerer 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Swiftblade 9.  In spite of only casting 6th-level spells, you have a caster level of 19 and get your pick from various buff and even a few nice crowd control spells.

For feats, you'll need Dodge, Mobility, and Combat Casting as pre-requisites.  You qualify for Dodge and friends thanks to your Belt early on, but you should grab a +2 Tome of Dex as soon as possible (not as a starting item) so that you can qualify while naked, as well.  Elusive Target is a really good feat to add on to that later on.  Combat Reflexes is also important for a lockdown build, as are Combat Expertise and Improved Trip.  So, overall, I think something like...

1) Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Spiked Chain]
3) Power Attack
4) Divine Might (Holy Warrior ACF, Complete Champion)
6) Combat Casting
9) Elusive Target
12) Mage Slayer
15) Blind-Fight
18) Pierce Magical Concealment

...would be your best play for feats.

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2011, 04:50:38 PM »
Warmage is terrible for your stats.  If you want to be a lockdown caster, you have a few options.  A less impressive spell casting route would be Paladin 4/Sorcerer 2/Abjurant Champion 5/Swiftblade 9.  In spite of only casting 6th-level spells, you have a caster level of 19 and get your pick from various buff and even a few nice crowd control spells.

For feats, you'll need Dodge, Mobility, and Combat Casting as pre-requisites.  You qualify for Dodge and friends thanks to your Belt early on, but you should grab a +2 Tome of Dex as soon as possible (not as a starting item) so that you can qualify while naked, as well.  Elusive Target is a really good feat to add on to that later on.  Combat Reflexes is also important for a lockdown build, as are Combat Expertise and Improved Trip.  So, overall, I think something like...

1) Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Exotic Weapon Proficiency [Spiked Chain]
3) Power Attack
4) Divine Might (Holy Warrior ACF, Complete Champion)
6) Combat Casting
9) Elusive Target
12) Mage Slayer
15) Blind-Fight
18) Pierce Magical Concealment

...would be your best play for feats.

don't have complete champion and don't have a spiked chain. I also want to focus on both blasting and lockdown, so I was thinking of rainbow serpent, even though I don't have the book for it. that way, I get paladin, warmage and cleric casting. what book does it appear in anyway that and the the paragnostic apostle books are the ones I intend to buy next.

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2011, 04:52:35 PM »
How about you tell us what books you DO have?

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2011, 04:54:06 PM »
How about you tell us what books you DO have?

I DID. on the first post.

players handbook, complete arcane, complete adventurer, dragon magic, spell compendium, and monster manuals 1 and 2.

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2011, 05:04:46 PM »
alright. I am playing a 3.5 game and got REALLY lucky on my rolls. I am wondering if I could have any help on playing an optimized paladin with these base stats:

Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 18
Int: 14
Wis and Cha: 18.

any race/feat/template suggestions for optimizing my paladin?

edit: we're allowed to start with 2 magic items of our choice as long as they are non-epic. anything I could get that increases all my stats/ caster level when I get spells? I'm thinking belt of magnificnce +6 and bead of karma. any other suggestions? starting level one, and all books. I dunno what the rest of the party is doing. however, I only have player's handbook, complete arcane, complete adventurer, dragon magic, spell compendium, monster manual and monster manual 2. I was thinking of going half-ceilestial, cuz paladins don't lose that much from it and we get to pay off level adjustment and only get half level adjustment to begin with. does that sound good? this is my first time playing. I feel fairly comfortable with the rules though. second edit: I also just learned we are going gestalt. I want to choose warmage for allowing magical offence. does gestalt paladin/warmage compare at all to gestate paladin/sorcerer? edit: so, here are the updates on my stats. half-celestial human gestalt paladin/warmage. bead of karma, belt of magnificance +6 str: 28 dex: 20 con: 28 int: 22 wis: 28 cha 28. warmage edge: +6
armored mage: light.
smite evil 2/day.
daylight/at will.
bless/1 a day.
protection from evil 3/day
darkvision 60 feet.
spell resistance 11
damage reduction 5/magic.
detect evil/ at will
aura of good.
aric, cold, electricity resistance 10
immunity to disease

equipment
chain shirt.
greatsword.
spell component pouch times 3.

spells: 0th level: 5 a day,  known
1st level, 6 a day, 13 known.'

6 feats. 20 skill points.

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2011, 05:07:02 PM »
oops, how do I delete a message?

Nunkuruji

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2011, 05:13:23 PM »
Traditionally, in a 1-20 game, you will only be able to buyoff 1LA with the +4 LA  Half-Celestial template. That is at lvl12.
You might want to look for an +3 LA template if you care.

Might want some Arcane Strike in there

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2011, 05:15:57 PM »
Traditionally, in a 1-20 game, you will only be able to buyoff 1LA with the +4 LA  Half-Celestial template. That is at lvl12.
You might want to look for an +3 LA template if you care.

Might want some Arcane Strike in there
we get to pay off level adjustment and only get half level adjustment to begin with. so, half-celestial becomes level adjustment 2. payoff on levels 6 and 9.

Maat_Mons

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2011, 05:21:04 PM »
Note that, if you're using a human base and have 5 flaws, you actually start with 7 feats. 

Rainbow servant is from Complete Divine.  Paragnostic apostle is from Complete Champion. 

For a lockdown build, it's advisable to have a reach weapon and the ability to attack adjacent squares as well.  Spiked chain is the preferred way to do that, but you can also do it with a guisarme and spiked gauntlets. 

Some starting feats to consider are:
  • Combat expertise: needed for improved trip
  • Combat reflexes: get an extra 5 attacks of opportunity per round
  • Deft opportunist: +4 on attacks of opportunity (Complete Adventurer)
  • Improved initiative: generally useful combat feat
  • Improved trip: fundamental to tripping
  • Power attack: generally useful combat feat

Here are some feats that aren't in the books you have, but are in the SRD:

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2011, 05:24:44 PM »
Note that, if you're using a human base and have 5 flaws, you actually start with 7 feats. 

Rainbow servant is from Complete Divine.  Paragnostic apostle is from Complete Champion. 

For a lockdown build, it's advisable to have a reach weapon and the ability to attack adjacent squares as well.  Spiked chain is the preferred way to do that, but you can also do it with a guisarme and spiked gauntlets. 

Some starting feats to consider are:
  • Combat expertise: needed for improved trip
  • Combat reflexes: get an extra 5 attacks of opportunity per round
  • Deft opportunist: +4 on attacks of opportunity (Complete Adventurer)
  • Improved initiative: generally useful combat feat
  • Improved trip: fundamental to tripping
  • Power attack: generally useful combat feat

Here are some feats that aren't in the books you have, but are in the SRD:

I'm taking improved inititive, power attack, arcane preparation and arcane mastery. I want my remaining feats to be mage based, as I am looking at a more gished paladin.

stupid computer making it hard to spell things right. >.>

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2011, 05:27:31 PM »
alright. I am playing a 3.5 game and got REALLY lucky on my rolls. I am wondering if I could have any help on playing an optimized paladin with these base stats:

Str: 18
Dex: 12
Con: 18
Int: 14
Wis and Cha: 18.

any race/feat/template suggestions for optimizing my paladin?

edit: we're allowed to start with 2 magic items of our choice as long as they are non-epic. anything I could get that increases all my stats/ caster level when I get spells? I'm thinking belt of magnificnce +6 and bead of karma. any other suggestions? starting level one, and all books. I dunno what the rest of the party is doing. however, I only have player's handbook, complete arcane, complete adventurer, dragon magic, spell compendium, monster manual and monster manual 2. I was thinking of going half-ceilestial, cuz paladins don't lose that much from it and we get to pay off level adjustment and only get half level adjustment to begin with. does that sound good? this is my first time playing. I feel fairly comfortable with the rules though. second edit: I also just learned we are going gestalt. I want to choose warmage for allowing magical offence. does gestalt paladin/warmage compare at all to gestate paladin/sorcerer? edit: so, here are the updates on my stats. half-celestial human gestalt paladin/warmage. bead of karma, belt of magnificance +6 str: 28 dex: 20 con: 28 int: 22 wis: 28 cha 28. warmage edge: +6
armored mage: light.
smite evil 2/day.
daylight/at will.
bless/1 a day.
protection from evil 3/day
darkvision 60 feet.
spell resistance 11
damage reduction 5/magic.
detect evil/ at will
aura of good.
aric, cold, electricity resistance 10
immunity to disease

equipment
chain shirt.
greatsword.
spell component pouch times 3.

spells: 0th level: 5 a day, 4 known
1st level, 6 a day, 13 known.'

improved inititive, power attack, arcane mastery, arcane preperation,  3 more feats, 24 skill points.

considering we are going gestalt, I want more focus on the warmage/rainbow serpent part. feats like arcane preperation and arcane master, seem good. any other good feats for that part? I'll be getting those two and improved inititive/power attack. leaving three feats left.

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2011, 05:29:10 PM »
I'm taking improved inititive, power attack, arcane preparation and arcane mastery. I want my remaining feats to be mage based, as I am looking at a more gished paladin.

stupid computer making it hard to spell things right. >.>
I have an idea, how about you build what you want and play it?

TryMeIke

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Re: help with a paladin race/feats/template.
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2011, 05:33:57 PM »
I'm taking improved inititive, power attack, arcane preparation and arcane mastery. I want my remaining feats to be mage based, as I am looking at a more gished paladin.

stupid computer making it hard to spell things right. >.>
I have an idea, how about you build what you want and play it?

you don't need to be rude. I am just saying I want a more caster, and you keep suggesting more melee. geez.