WTF was the guy who wrote the maug thinking?

[Littha]

Ok, after trying to stat out a maug arteficer for quite a while I realized several things:

1. whoever wrother the maug entry must have been repeatedly beaten in the head with a brick.
2. maugs potentially have several things that arent noted in their racial features properly.

ok the list:

The statted maug is wearing full plate without penalty despite the fact that constructs are not proficient with armor unless otherwise noted (not proficient with any armor they are dipicted as wearing like outsiders).

The statted maug is wielding a two bladed sword with a +5 to hit. Thus he must have exotic weapon proficiency.

The stat block doesn't take into account the -1 to hit for a large creature at all.

The statted maug can't use his slam as part of a full attack

hiring maugs is ridiculously cheap (5gp/day +2 gp per class level.) you can hire a maug wizard 20 for 45gp a day.


basically what i want to know is:
a what these people were smoking at the time
b where i can get some
and finally c, your own horror stories on stat blocks you have found (sample NPCs, monsters whatever)

[telehax]

it doesn't need an ewp feat.

Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.

it's possible that the writer assumed a similar rule for armor, but strangely enough constructs don't have that rule

[Littha]

it doesn't need an ewp feat.

Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.

it's possible that the writer assumed a similar rule for armor, but strangely enough constructs don't have that rule

Meh missed that one, was obsessing over the lack of armor proficiencies. It does beg the question weather I should take two weapon fighting on my maug if he is proficient anyway. (probably not, two weapon fighting sucks ass anyway)

[The_Mad_Linguist]

They were probably originally written as being outsiders (like the dwarf ancestor) and got shifted to construct at the last minute.

[Runestar]

The statted maug is wielding a two bladed sword with a +5 to hit. Thus he must have exotic weapon proficiency.

The stat block doesn't take into account the -1 to hit for a large creature at all.

The statted maug can't use his slam as part of a full attack

You are right about the slam having an extra +1 to-hit. Can't believe I never noticed that. 

For the 2-bladed sword, I would rule they are proficient with all martial weapons, and that 2-bladed swords are treated as martial weapons for them. Ditto for heavy armour.

I think the designer was thinking that as an npc to be fought, such minor details weren't worth mentioning or were simply glossed over. Why would the PCs care that he doesn't have exotic weapon prof anyways?

All I can say is that he was ahead of his time, because that is the exact design philosophy for 4e. Simply cook up the numbers and cheer over not having to justify them in-game. 

As for horror stories, just about every splatbook has npcs with stat errors. One of the more extreme ones I recall was in exemplars of evil, where the ancient blue dragon npc is missing +8 to-hit on all her attacks.

I recall the cormyr line of adventure books was extremely riddled with such mistakes. It didn't help that I wasn't used to the new statblock at all, so it took a lot of time for me to reverse-engineer their stats to double-check.

[cru]

The statted maug can't use his slam as part of a full attack

The picture shows Maug waving his sword in one hand, but he has to wield it in two hands to make 2 blade attacks.
(SRD)

[dark_samuari]

hiring maugs is ridiculously cheap (5gp/day +2 gp per class level.) you can hire a maug wizard 20 for 45gp a day.

Good to hear...

[CantripN]

Maugs also have Powerful Build, or at least the ability to use Huge Weapons without penalty, which is unstated in anything but fluff and the actual attack bonus and weapon. No such trait listed, however.

They are a REALLY powerful race.

[Gods_Trick]

Possibly he was thinking, "Man Skip has some good shite!" 

But I agree with TML, sounds like an outsider that was rushed into construct. Crazy powerful too.

[Prime32]

Also makes a good target for Incarnate Construct.
(For some reason the racial HD aren't listed)

[Littha]

so by extrapolation:

Maug
Large Construct
2hd +3 LA
Str: +10
Dex: +4
Con: -
Int: +2
Cha: +2

Bonus Feats:
Alertness
Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Two bladed sword) or Martial weapon proficiency and two bladed swords are martial weapons.
Heavy Armor proficiency

Special attacks:
Pulverize

Special Qualities:
Construct traits
rapid repair
grafts
spell resistance 14+class level

extra +1 to hit from nowhere, or ignore penalty due to size
cannot use slam as part of a full attack when using a two bladed sword?

[Caelic]

Now, in fairness, you'd probably also have to pay that Maug wizard 20 the going rate for the spells he cast--but, yeah, the prices for hiring are ridiculously low.

[Littha]

Looking through it, the example maug is using a large two bladed sword not a huge one (despite the description) so no powerful build.

[Littha]

Ok, thought I might as well post it here rather than open a whole new thread for it. I need feat advice for my maug artificer (meleeficer) 5 (sheet so far here)

DM rulings:
Two bladed swords are racial weapons for maug and thus martial
Maugs have proficiency with all martial weapons along with all armor but no shields. 
I have two flaws and I need feat help.

Do I go the standard route and take power attack or do I try to compensate for my aweful BAB of +4 at level 10 (which is already helped by my +7 STR mod).

Do I drop a feat on two weapon fighting so that I can use my two bladed sword (I can still power attack with it as a two handed weapon if I decide to forgo the extra attack from twf though if I am doing that I am obviously losing out on the 3.5 damage per attack for not using a greatsword for the same thing.)

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Now, in fairness, you'd probably also have to pay that Maug wizard 20 the going rate for the spells he cast--but, yeah, the prices for hiring are ridiculously low.

I think they're assuming that maug mercenaries are all going to have NPC class levels.

[Littha]

The only clarification on this is that in the flavour text Thulkarr are noted as spellcasters and able to use planeshift or gate. Thulkarr are still maugs.

[Bloody Initiate]

I can't recall any HUGE issues I've had with stat blocks, but even small oversights can become pretty frustrating when you actually want to USE the monster.

I recently finished a Nimblewright (MM2) racial class and am working on a Force Golem (MM5) one.

I tend to prefer to get as much of the monster from the entry into the class, because I assume anyone wanting to play it will want to play something that can do everything the entry can do.

The Nimblewright is MM2, so already it was going to be a pain, but the biggest problem with the entry is it includes all this infiltration fluff that the monster just can't pull off. Fluff that doesn't work is pretty common and usually not a big problem, but my favorite thing about this monster was that it should appear as something else and fool PCs. The racial class ended up ignoring the infiltration vibe entirely and becoming a sort of wire-action-movie character. I was pleased with the result but would've liked it if the thing could trick people too.

The Force Golem's stat block appears to have too many skill points. Not a big issue, in fact it's great if you want to use the monster against PCs because otherwise it has a problem similar to the Nimblewright's (2 skills per level just can't get you bluff/disguise and action skills like tumble/jump). It becomes a much larger pain in the ass when you're trying to figure out what class skills should be in a faithful adaptation. Really, I just need to drop the "faithful adaptation" thing.

[Phoenix00]

I think they're assuming that maug mercenaries are all going to have NPC class levels.

An archivist really doesn't care if the maug is an adept, he will gladly have the adept provide the spell knowledge, while the archivist writes it into his spellbook (using the cooperating to make magic item rule on page DMG p215.  I bet any archivist would glady pay 85gp (16*5+5) to have heal as a 5th level spell.

[bearsarebrown]

If you can swing Primordial Giant on top of Incarnate Construct(against RAW, Primordial is inherited and Incarnate is acquired) you end up with a pretty kickass ECL 3 race. Two giant HD, +6 Str, +4 Dex, +6 Int, +6 Cha. Large size and +7 natural armor.

[Littha]

If you can swing Primordial Giant on top of Incarnate Construct(against RAW, Primordial is inherited and Incarnate is acquired) you end up with a pretty kickass ECL 3 race. Two giant HD, +6 Str, +4 Dex, +6 Int, +6 Cha. Large size and +7 natural armor.

To be honest id rather keep the construct immunities especially considering LA 3 is still viable for buyoff.
Besides, being a construct artificer is made of win.