[3.5] The Disciples of the Elements

[Littha]

Thought id try getting back into D&D slowly with a bit of homebrew. Anyway here comes the first of 4 elemental disciples, the Disciple of flames. As of yet he is lacking several abilities to fill out the table along with a capstone but I want feedback on the casting mechanisms so that I can balance the extra abilities properly.

Disciple of Flames
[spoiler]
HD: d6

Level BAB   Fort   Ref   Will       PP     Special
 1.     +0     +0    +0    +2        2      Invoked Metamagic, Mind to Magic
 2.     +1     +0    +0    +3        6
 3.     +2     +1    +1    +3       11     Advanced Learning
 4.     +3     +1    +1    +4       17
 5.     +3     +1    +1    +4       25    Perceive the Veil
 6.     +4     +2    +2    +5       35    Ignite
 7.     +5     +2    +2    +5       46    Advanced Learning
 8.     +6     +2    +2    +6       58    One with The Inferno
 9.     +6     +3    +3    +6       72    Flames Fury
10.    +7     +3    +3    +7       88    Blistering Prescence
11.    +8     +3    +3    +7     106    Advanced Learning
12.    +9     +4    +4    +8     126    Flames Frenzy
13.    +9     +4    +4    +8     147    Sunder the Veil
14.    +10   +4    +4    +9     170
15.    +11   +5    +5    +9     195    Advanced Learning
16.    +12   +5    +5    +10    221
17.    +12   +5    +5    +10    250   Shattering Evocation
18.    +13   +6    +6    +11    280
19.    +14   +6    +6    +11    311   Advanced Learning
20.    +15   +6    +6    +12    345   Blistering Power

Skills: (4+Int)x4 at first level
Autohypnosis, Balance, Bluff, Chanting, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge(Psionics), Knowledge (Arcarna), Knowledge
(Religion), Listen, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim and Tumble.


Weapon and Armour proficiencies:
Disciples of flames are proficient with all simple weapons and Light armour, they are not proficient with any kind of shield.

PP
A Disciple of flames are limited by her available PP, her base PP per level is shown on the table above. A Disciple of Flames gains bonus PP from her Wisdom
score.

Chants
Disciples of the elements are unique, they have complete knowledge of their elements and invoke their powers without regard for the boundaries of mind and magic.

A Disciple of flames knows all spells and powers that have the [Fire] Descriptor and may spend pp to use these abilities in exactly the same way as a psion
manifests her powers.
A Disciples Chants are not arcane, divine or psionic and are effected by spell resistance normally. Anti magic and Anti Psionic fields stop Chants from being used.

Chants are unaffected by arcane spell failure.

Invoked Metamagic.
A Disciple of flames may spend additional pp to add the effect of a metamagic feat she possesses to an Chant (Magical or Psionic) at a cost of 2 pp per level
heightened. For example a Disciple of flames may Maximize her Fireball at an additional cost of 6pp. Chants affected by this ability may still not pass over the pp cap for powers.

Mind to Magic
A disciple of flames may consume pp to cast a spell. This is done as part of the action to cast a spell and takes no additional time.
Level 1 = 1 pp
Level 2 = 3 pp
Level 3 = 5 pp
Level 4 = 7 pp
Level 5 = 9 pp
Level 6 = 11 pp
Level 7 = 13 pp
Level 8 = 15 pp
Level 9 = 17 pp


Advanced Learning
At the levels indicated on the table a Disciple of flames may learn one additional power or spell from any source. It does not need to have the [Fire] Descriptor.

Perceive the Veil
A Disciple of flames gains +10 to his Chanting skill to breach spell or power resistance.

Pierce the veil
A disciple of flames gains +10 to his Chants spell DCs to overcome saves

Sunder the veil
Once a Disciple of flames has successfully breached her targets spell or power resistance she will automatically breach that targets resistances with subsequent Chants.

Ignite
Creatures with vulnerability to fire take an additional 100% damage rather than 50% from the Disciples [Fire] chants.

Flames Fury
Upon reaching level 9 a Disciples [Fire] Chants ignore fire resistance.

Flames Frenzy
Upon reaching level 12 a Disciples [Fire] Chants ignore immunity to Fire

One with the Inferno
Upon reaching level 8 a Disciple of flame gains the Fire Subtype.

Blistering Presence (Su)
A level 10 or higher Disciple emits a constant wave of heat that scorches objects surrounding him, everything within 5 feet of the disciple takes 1 point of fire damage a round. This does not affect anything in the Disciples possession and may be suppressed as a free action. 

Shattering Evocation
If a Disciples Chant successfully pierces a targets spell resistance that target has an effective spell resistance against any additional spells powers or chants in the next 10 minutes of 0.

Blistering Power (Sp)
Once per day a level 20 diciple may cast Rain Of Fire as a spell like ability. This is an epic spell however the Disciple need not make a spellcraft check to use this ability.
[/spoiler]

[Littha]

Bump, still want some oppinions on the casting mechanics.

All fire spells too strong? too many spells per day etc?

[SiggyDevil]

What is this, a Truenamer/Psion? You should use Invocations or something similarly simple.

[PhaedrusXY]

This

Invoked Metamagic.
A Disciple of flames may spend additional pp to add the effect of a metamagic feat she possesses to an Chant (Magical or Psionic) at a cost of 2 pp per level
heightened. For example a Disciple of flames may Maximize her Fireball at an additional cost of 6pp.

plus this

Advanced Learning
At the levels indicated on the table a Disciple of flames may learn one additional power or spell from any source. It does not need to have the [Fire] Descriptor.

= broken (at least at first glance)

Overchannel lets this guy persist 6th level powers and spells just by spending extra power points. With a bit of ML boosting cheese (much harder than CL boosting cheese) and/or Metapower, he could probably persist 9th level powers and spells.

I don't see the reason to go into detail about how AMFs and Anti-psionic fields interact with this either, since the default ruleset is transparency. Just call it all psionics and get it over with, IMO. It's needlessly wordy and complicated as-is.

I don't understand the Chanting thing, either. Is he using that skill to define a pseudo-caster level, or something? If so... then this is even more broken than I thought, and getting 9th level spells/powers persisted is a piece of cake...

And having Strength be his key stat is a bad idea. It is a LOT easier to boost that than any of the mental stats.

[Littha]

This

Invoked Metamagic.
A Disciple of flames may spend additional pp to add the effect of a metamagic feat she possesses to an Chant (Magical or Psionic) at a cost of 2 pp per level
heightened. For example a Disciple of flames may Maximize her Fireball at an additional cost of 6pp.

plus this

Advanced Learning
At the levels indicated on the table a Disciple of flames may learn one additional power or spell from any source. It does not need to have the [Fire] Descriptor.

= broken (at least at first glance)

Overchannel lets this guy persist 6th level powers and spells just by spending extra power points. With a bit of ML boosting cheese (much harder than CL boosting cheese) and/or Metapower, he could probably persist 9th level powers and spells.

I don't see the reason to go into detail about how AMFs and Anti-psionic fields interact with this either, since the default ruleset is transparency. Just call it all psionics and get it over with, IMO. It's needlessly wordy and complicated as-is.

I don't understand the Chanting thing, either. Is he using that skill to define a pseudo-caster level, or something? If so... then this is even more broken than I thought, and getting 9th level spells/powers persisted is a piece of cake...

And having Strength be his key stat is a bad idea. It is a LOT easier to boost that than any of the mental stats.

I seem to have missed an extremely important sentence involving not boosting above current castable level...
Chanting is just like spellcraft or psycraft. It doesn't do anything special other than what they do for their respective abilities. I shall also have to add a line about not choosing powers from above your castable level with advanced learning.

STR is his main stat because i wanted to make each disciple cast from a different stat and as STR = raw damage = fire I thought it appropriate. That said I can only think of templates or higher ECL races (not great on a caster) that can really boost STR in a way not accessible to magic but im sure there is something else out there. The other idea was having the casting Con based for all the disciples like incarnium is, I want to emphasise that this power isn't magical or psionic.

Also the point on AMF and APF interaction etc is mostly there for flavour, I guess ill move it to a Variant box like wizards tend to.

[Sohala]

Are you imposing the spell point restriction onto spells to make them similar to powers? That way they need extra points spent to increase damage, or are you making powers scale with level?

I am on the same boat that Str based casting would be a bad thing. I know the Illunian(sp) race can gain the ability, but they are not the most ideal race. I think it lies more in that most melee combat relies on Str, and then you are allowing a class to, by default, rely on it. To get that for mental stats requires assorted feats and classes.

[Littha]

Are you imposing the spell point restriction onto spells to make them similar to powers? That way they need extra points spent to increase damage, or are you making powers scale with level?

I am on the same boat that Str based casting would be a bad thing. I know the Illunian(sp) race can gain the ability, but they are not the most ideal race. I think it lies more in that most melee combat relies on Str, and then you are allowing a class to, by default, rely on it. To get that for mental stats requires assorted feats and classes.

Not touching either at the moment, you can spend extra pp for a power or just use a higher level spell. The issue here being that spells and psionics arent balanced against each other particually well.

[Bauglir]

Also size modifiers disproportionately benefit this class. For instance, learn Giant Size as one of your Advanced Learnings. Persist it. Laugh forever.

[PhaedrusXY]

Also size modifiers disproportionately benefit this class. For instance, learn Giant Size as one of your Advanced Learnings. Persist it. Laugh forever.

And Draconic Polymorph. And Consumptive Field. See why making Str the casting stat is a bad idea? You can easily buff yourself up to have a strength score in the 60s or so, all day long. It's much harder to hit that with any of the mental stats.

[SiggyDevil]

Give them unlimited yet stable SLA abilities, and keep it simple.

[Littha]

Changed casting stat along with some clarifications and edits. Working on more abilities

[Littha]

bump for opinions on the completed version

[VarianArdell]

I like the concept, and it seems balanced enough. I do have a question: would this class have access to the Summon line of spells (obviously to summon only fire-subtype creatures)?

[Littha]

Yes, along with fire shield and other variable element spells.

That reminds me though that I need to finish writing the other 3...