Author Topic: Avatar d20 fixes (Read 61255 times)

dman11235 · « **Reply #260 on:** October 10, 2008, 11:58:22 PM »

We haven't really done much playtesting. But check out the Play by Post General forum, I started something designed to playtest homebrew classes. You could totally get involved there. And it would be awesome.

But enough shameless plugs (seriously: do it. We need people to start playing there so we can get it off the ground. It's not quite ready to start, we still need to organize the sub-forum and the rest of the posts).

Overbending feels to me like too much and yet not enough. One of those things where without this crippling set-back that makes no one ever take it ever, it will be way too good. But with it....it's a crippling set-back.

Bajaaku · « **Reply #261 on:** October 11, 2008, 12:13:32 AM »

I'd be happy to help set up some playtesting for Avatar d20. I'm not sure how you'd want to set it up on the forums though. I've never tried PbP before, so I don't know what the general procedure is when playing on public forums. I've only played PnP and games through IMs (which I think works well and I'd prefer). We would need a sub-forum for Avatar games, and then each thread would be a different game, yes? I assume we'd have to ask a mod to set that up or create our own forums somewhere else. I don't know how easy it is to get our own sub-forum.

dman11235 · « **Reply #262 on:** October 11, 2008, 12:19:37 AM »

Go to the PbP General forum, it has some threads that'll tell you things about PbP. Also, the arena will be set up over the next....two or three days, all you have to do is sign up. I've already got a sub-forum lined up, and a mod working with us. Thing is, it's not an Avatar playtest arena, it's the Brilliant Gameologists Arena. All homebrews will be allowed (pending an application and review) and you can play any character you want.

Bajaaku · « **Reply #263 on:** October 11, 2008, 12:28:55 AM »

Wait, so is there a possibility that we'd be pitting the bending classes against other custom classes from other projects, or would the Avatar stuff have it's own section within the Brilliant Gameologists Arena? If it's the former, than I think that would defeat the purpose. Wouldn't it make sense to test the bending classes (or any custom material for that matter) against the PHB base classes first? By having two homebrews fighting each other, it would be difficult to say which one is broken or needs tweaking. Just like in the scientific method we would need to use the base classes at the control variable. When you change two things at once, you don't know which change is causing the difference. Of course we could do both. The arena would be for fun, but as far as determining balance issues I think we would benefit much more from having our own Sub-forum (like the other PbP games).

Also, I don't know if you'd be up for this, but since it seems like we are going back and forth with our posts, it would be faster if we did this over AIM or some other IMing. Unless you want to post here to keep it documented. Just a suggestion

dman11235 · « **Reply #264 on:** October 11, 2008, 12:37:39 AM »

It's the former. But it will mostly be pitted against existing classes. And other that have been playtested with success. Of course they will encounter others, but they will encounter the 52 official classes as well, and it's very likely that this will happen more often than other homebrews.

Also: documentation is good. This thread serves no real purpose other than these conversations. So it belongs here.

Bajaaku · « **Reply #265 on:** October 11, 2008, 12:44:48 AM »

I suppose so. However, I still think it would be nice to have our own separate arena as well. That way we could test the exact scenarios that we want. Like I said, I think it would be beneficial to do both. Is the arena just going to be people minmaxing the hell out of their build, or is more of a "fair" battle against classes?

dman11235 · « **Reply #266 on:** October 11, 2008, 01:01:51 AM »

It's going to be people playing builds that are fun for them. And the most powerful character will win, most likely. It will point out any errors with classes quickly. The classes will be paired more with appropriate power levels than with off-kilter ones.

Bajaaku · « **Reply #267 on:** October 11, 2008, 01:07:21 AM »

I guess I'm still a little confused. You said you had a sub-forum lined up. Is that one specifically for Avatar d20, or is that the arena you were talking about? If that is the arena, is there any chance we could get an arena (sub-forum) strictly for Avatar d20, or is that asking too much from the mods?

Actually, if I read the rules right, it doesn't look like we need permission. We could just create an Avatar Playtesting post in the Current Games section of the PbP forums and we'd get a child board. Is that correct? If so, should we (I) set something up in the near future?

dman11235 · « **Reply #268 on:** October 11, 2008, 01:34:53 AM »

We shouldn't bother, since it will get playtested well enough by just having it in a general arena match. It will get paired with other avatar classes, druids, incarnates, monks, and other homebrewed classes. In the span of one month, it will have (just the water bender even) over 10 matches against official material under its belt if everything goes smoothly.

Also note this: no homebrew will be accepted until it has been reviewed and deemed fit for combat. We refs (me, Prime32, AfterCrescent, and Tshern) will pair characters up against similarly powered characters as best we can, so power levels won't vary (well, shouldn't) until later matches in the round.

All we need you to do is make a character (or up to 6) to play in the arena, and when we have 8 different players of the same level: we'll create the round. With 6 characters allowed per participant at a time, we can have 6 different tournaments going on at once with only 8 players, provided they all make 6 characters. That's 24 games to start with. 84 matches with those 6 rounds, and 48 characters. That's only with 48 characters. The GitP arena has many more than just 8 people with 6 characters each. I have a feeling that once we get the word out there it will grow rapidly to rival the GitP arena in size (which this arena is based on). Point is, it'll get both enough screen time and standard opponents. Not to mention the fact that any class, feat, item, or anything else allowed into the arena will be pretty well balanced going into it. This is just that final measure.

Bajaaku · « **Reply #269 on:** October 11, 2008, 01:42:19 AM »

That sounds alright then, as long as characters are getting matched up fairly it should be fine. What I'll probably do then is sign up with 4 characters, one for each type of bender. Also, you mentioned "in the span of one month." Does the arena really take that long? I know patience is a virtue (one of which I'm still working on), but that seems like a long time for an arena.

dman11235 · « **Reply #270 on:** October 11, 2008, 01:50:01 AM »

Well...it's a PbP. So it can. But this arena is going to go on until it stops. It's always recruiting, and we'll always set up more matches as needed. Also, I should mention this, you can ask for an exhibition. But yeah, back to time length. It's a PbP, so it can take up to a month for a long battle to end. Or it can take a couple days. It depends on luck and response time for the participants and refs.

Bajaaku · « **Reply #271 on:** October 11, 2008, 01:51:44 AM »

Ok, I've never played PbP before (mainly for that reason) so I'm not too familiar with the specifics.

Also, I would like to have an updated PDF before I make any character submissions. That way I'd be testing the most recent version. Again, if I could get a list of updates that need to be made, I'd gladly help edit the PDF.

One last thing, are the bending classes already approved for the arena? And if I have a custom class of my own I want to try out, how do I get it approved (a bit off topic now, sorry)?

dman11235 · « **Reply #272 on:** October 11, 2008, 02:11:29 AM »

Once AF gets to it: it will be updated. Currently I believe that Water and Earth are good. The feats need more of them, basically, but otherwise are fine. I'm not even going to submit this to the arena until we get the whole system done into beta (where earth and water are now). All that entails right now: fire, air, feats, items, and that overbending issue. The overbending segment might not even change. So we need to finish up the whole too much damage problem and the making fire useful without damage problems.

As for submitting homebrews to the arena: I don't know quite yet. Prime32 has a system that might work, but really, what you need to do is submit it in the Recruiting thread. Which I will post rules for tomorrow or the next day (or one of the other high refs).

Bajaaku · « **Reply #273 on:** October 11, 2008, 02:32:43 AM »

Ok, if you say Earth and Water are good I'll start looking over Fire and Air. A few comments/questions to get me started:

Air: What specific seeds need to be fixed?

Fire: What specific seeds are doing too much damage and need to be fixed? As far making fire-based "utility" seeds that don't do damage, that is a bit tricky. Throughout most of the Avatar show, firebending is treated as aggressive and destructive. Only until later (Book 3) did they define it as life and energy. Try to keep that in mind when brainstorming non-damage seeds. Did you want more of these seeds, or just fixing the ones that are already listed?

Feats: If you just want more, I'll try to come up with some. If some need fixing, which ones?

Items: This should be the last priority. I couldn't really care less about the items right now.

Overbending: Personally, I like it the way it is right now. Once it's playtested we can get a better feel for it. I think that it should remain rather harsh. Overbending isn't something the character should want to use a lot. I see it more as a last ditch effort used near death to pull off a difficult form to kill an enemy. I consider it like the Avatar State. It's only used when the Avatar is in trouble and needs a boost. You don't see Aang using it often because it takes a large toll on his body. Overbending should be like that. Harsh penalties to use a powerful form/attack.

AstralFire · « **Reply #274 on:** October 11, 2008, 12:55:31 PM »

I think B has the right idea with overbending - we'll have to see it in playtesting, because it is a very delicate balance to strike. I know what you mean, dman, about it not feeling quite right.

Regarding fire - at least personally, I'm hoping to give fire almost as many non-combat uses as the rest, because I'm a pyro. And there's really only so many ways to say "I blast someone to hell and back."

Did you have any opinions on adding that 'heat mirage' idea?

Bajaaku · « **Reply #275 on:** October 11, 2008, 01:07:14 PM »

Sounds cool, but I can't find your post about it. What page is it on?

AstralFire · « **Reply #276 on:** October 11, 2008, 01:21:06 PM »

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1233.msg66511#msg66511

Bajaaku · « **Reply #277 on:** October 11, 2008, 01:30:26 PM »

EDIT: Hmm, that might be a cool idea. It would have to differ from Pyrotechnics enough to make it worthy of another seed. What types of illusions would you give it? After going through the Illusion spells, here are some ideas: Blurred vision (miss chance), Mirror Image (I like this one, could augment for more images), Hallucinatory Terrain, Illusory Wall, MIRAGE arcana (a good one too), Vertigo (PHB2), Vertigo Field (could make an augment of Vertigo), Phantom Battle (PHB2), Illusory Pit (CArc), Fever Dream (CMage).

I think it would be best to take ideas from those spells rather than copy them exactly. Combine similar illusions, making tougher/stronger ones a higher DC. Heat Mirage would have to have the target remain within the heated area. While they stay in the area, they get a save every so often (every round?). If they leave, the illusion persists for a few rounds until they cool down. We could add that the illusion goes away if the target is splashed with cold water (from a water bending perhaps?). What do you think?

I'll write something up for the seed later today. I have a ton of work to finish today for school and I have to get that done first.

Bajaaku · « **Reply #278 on:** October 11, 2008, 08:32:55 PM »

Alright, here is my version of a Heat Mirage seed:

[spoiler]Heat Mirage (Seed)
Difficulty Class: Varies, see text
Components: Meditation
Bending Time: Full-round action
Maintenance Action: Full-round action
Range: 30 ft.
Area: Varies, see text
Duration: Varies, see text; As long as the form is maintained
Saving Throw: Will save; see text
This seed initiates two different forms.

Blurred Vision (DC 15):Illusory Mirage (DC 20): By spending a full-round action, the Firebender can increase the temperature of a nearby area, creating a mirage that makes the area appear differently than it really is. A creature inside the mirage can disbelieve the effects with a successful Will save. This mirage lasts for 1 minute/level. The seed can only change visual elements. Audible, tactile, and olfactory elements remain the same. The Firebender is unaffected by his own mirage and can see clearly within the heated area.
The Firebender has a few options available when creating the illusion. He can alter the appearance of the landscape to look like a different type of terrain. Structures in the area can also be altered (or added where none are present) in the illusion. However, equipment and creatures within the area are not hidden or changed in illusion.
He can also create an illusion of a wall, floor, ceiling, or similar surface. It appears absolutely real when viewed, but physical objects can pass through it without difficulty. The illusion has the dimensions of 1 ft. by 10 ft. by 10 ft. Anyone viewing the illusion is still entitled to a will save to disbelieve the vision.

Augment:
- For every 2 points you use from your augment pool, you may increase the radius of the mirage by 5 ft.
- For every 2 points you use from your augment pool, you may increase the length or width of an illusory wall by 5 ft. or the thickness by 1 ft.
[/spoiler]

AstralFire · « **Reply #279 on:** October 11, 2008, 08:53:53 PM »

Hope you guys saved the PDF; my site's webhost appears to be having issues. Again. *sigh* Not sure when it'll be back up.

Not sure about the last augment to that seed - I can think up reasons for everything but olfactory and tactile's a hard one to swing. On the whole though, it seems pretty nifty. I'll let dman comment on the actual balance, as he is better at that than I.

News:

Author Topic: Avatar d20 fixes (Read 61255 times)