D&D Play-testing [Rebalancing 3.5]

[RobbyPants]

I wanted to discuss the actual "process" of playtesting.

Are we going to each do this on our own (with paper and dice) or try to collaborate somehow online?  I think it would work best with at least two people (DM and PCs) so as to avoid any bias (pulling punches and the like).  How would we best do that?  PbP seems very slow, but it can work across time zomes.  IRC or similar chat could speed things up, but then you have to get several people free at the same time.  Do you have any other ideas?

If we do it online, it'd be nice to have some sort of a board, just to keep positions clear.  I'm not sure the best way to handle that.

After we run though the four fights for a day, what comes next?  Analysis of what happened?  We could try to figure out why PC X failed.  Was it bad rolls, bad tactics, bad PC design, bad class design or some combination?

In addition to fighting groups of EL-appropriate encounters, should we create single NPCs and/or groups of weaker NPCs?  Even "boss fights" at a higher EL?  People always say D&D isn't PVP arena when discussing wizards and fighter and the like, but NPCs with class levels are standard encounters in most games.

So, what are your thoughts on the matter?

[Soda]

Uff, mountain of work.

And I want to do some parallel testing of my other two projects too. -_-


PbP or IRC are fine with me. Alone testing is up to anyone with the initiative. I say let's get a battle map up and four of us will stick PCs on it.

[RobbyPants]

How are we going to handle battlemaps online?

The quickest way I can think of is to create an image with a grid and cut-and-paste icons as things move and die.  It's clunky, but it's simple and should work.  Does anyone know of any free software to handle that?

[Soda]

I have no idea why I'm only making characters with animal companions.

Half-Orc Ranger 6 by Soda
[spoiler]Half-Orc Ranger 6
Str 20 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 8

Init +2   Spot -4, Listen -4
Languages: Common, Orc
HP: 49
AC 18   Touch 12      FF 16
Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +2
Melee: Standard- Handaxe +13, 1d6+5+1d6 fire or
               +11/+11, 1d6+5+1d6 fire/1d6+2
         Full attack- +11/+11/+6/+6, 1d6+5+1d6 fire/+1d6+2
Ranged: Handaxe +13, 1d6+5 or
         +11/+11, 1d6+5/+1d6+2
BAB: +6/+1   Grapple: +11
Abilities: Wild Empathy
Qualities: Favored Enemy (elves +4, humans +2), Animal Companion, bonus feat instead of spells
Feats: Track, Two-Weapon Fighting, Endurance, Weapon Focus, Quick Draw, Brutal Throw, Spring Attack, Combat Reflexes, Vexing Flanker
Flaws: Murky-Eyed, Inattentive
Skills: [-1 ACP] Climb +8, Hide +6, Intimidate +5, Knowledge (nature) +4, Move Silently +10, Search +8, Survival +11
Gear: +2 full leather (4350), Gauntlets of Strength +2 (4000), 3 Mwk Handaxes (900), Healing Belt (750), Lesser Crystal of Energy Assault (3000)

Animal Companion: Wolf
HP: 39 (6 HD)
Initiative +3
Speed: 50ft
AC: 21, touch 13, flat-footed 18   (+3 Dex, +6 natural armor, +2 armor)
BAB/Grapple: +4; +6
Attack: Bite +7, 1d6+2
Special Attacks: Trip +2
Qualities: Low-light vision, Scent, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion
Saves: Fort +7 Ref +8 Will +3
Abilities: Str 15 Dex 17 Con 15 Int 2 Wis 12 Cha 6
Skills: Hide +6, Listen +2 Move Silently +6, Spot +2, Survival +2 (+6 tracking by scent)
Feats: Track, Weapon Focus (bite), Combat Reflexes, Vexing Flanker
Gear: Light leather barding[/spoiler]

[AlterFrom]

How are we going to handle battlemaps online?

The quickest way I can think of is to create an image with a grid and cut-and-paste icons as things move and die.  It's clunky, but it's simple and should work.  Does anyone know of any free software to handle that?

GIMP if you just want to edit an image (warning: learning curve involved).
Any and all VTTs should be able to handle that if coupled with a screencapture ability (which is similarly present on any and all OS's I can think of).

[RobbyPants]

Yeah, I already have Gimp 2.0 installed, but I suppose everyone else would need that too.  I only have a very cursory knowledge of how it works, and I've never really taken the time to learn layers.

[veekie]

If it's anything like Photoshop, layers would greatly expedite moving tokens about and adding them. You just need to make a set of standard tokens to paste onto and slide around a basic grid template. Players wouldn't need it if the grid is marked with coordinates, just the DM.

[Soda]

I was thinking, What if we run a warblade or crusader through a gauntlet of encounters. And then we run a fighter or barb through. They should hopefully perform similarly. And to derandomize a little, what if the characters and the encounters each have a list of random numbers.

Each encounter would have a list of rolls for the PC and one for the opponents. Instead of rolling a d20, you draw the next number from the list.
So, no one can have lucky rolls because every character to run the test rolled the same numbers. But the character behave normally, because the numbers are, of course, secret.

[Kuroimaken]

I was thinking, What if we run a warblade or crusader through a gauntlet of encounters. And then we run a fighter or barb through. They should hopefully perform similarly. And to derandomize a little, what if the characters and the encounters each have a list of random numbers.

Each encounter would have a list of rolls for the PC and one for the opponents. Instead of rolling a d20, you draw the next number from the list.
So, no one can have lucky rolls because every character to run the test rolled the same numbers. But the character behave normally, because the numbers are, of course, secret.

Of course, you'd have to run the encounters simultaneously.

[RobbyPants]

Midnight_V was suggesting the same thing and I agree with it.  Basically, a control group, as we've already decided they're at the target power level.  I'd prefer someone else to roll them up, because I'm fairly new to running ToB PCs.

Why do they have to be run simultaneously?  Once you get into the second or third round, I would expect the fights could be going in an entirely different direction.  I think they should go up against the exact same fight (same monsters, same starting positions, etc).

[Kuroimaken]

Midnight_V was suggesting the same thing and I agree with it.  Basically, a control group, as we've already decided they're at the target power level.  I'd prefer someone else to roll them up, because I'm fairly new to running ToB PCs.

Why do they have to be run simultaneously?  Once you get into the second or third round, I would expect the fights could be going in an entirely different direction.  I think they should go up against the exact same fight (same monsters, same starting positions, etc).

Because otherwise the "rolls" are known, and therefore this fact can be used to the advantage of the latter player regardless of how the combat went so far.

Also: what happens if they run out of "rolls"? Start over?

[RobbyPants]

Rolls known?  I'm suggesting two entirely separate fights.  Basically, I'm saying you take the monsters and their starting positions and use that for both fights, but otherwise run them as two different fights.

Did you want to use the same rolls to keep the randomness down?  I suppose that could help narrow down what's really affecting the fight...

[Soda]

It might be too much work for little benefit. Probably better off to use the time to run more fights.