Author Topic: Metamagic and You: A Thesis  (Read 176325 times)

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RelentlessImp

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2010, 09:04:08 AM »
Might as well include the link to the metamagic components in the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/metamagicComponents.htm

There's more on p135 of CMage

Already included that link. It's under Special, near the end of the post, and is the last thing there.
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2010, 10:11:16 AM »
Ah; that light-blue is hard for me to see.  Add in the CMage ref, then, I guess.

Great list!  You might want to reference some of the metamagic "ratings" threads, and retitle this something very specific to what the contents include (for example "list of metamagic reduction methods" or something slightly sexier).
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 10:14:38 AM by jameswilliamogle »

Widow

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2010, 11:29:45 AM »
I guess there is also the Heirophant that can select the ability to make all their spells effectly reach spells for free instead of the normal +2.

You can also add to the archmage entry the Master of elements ability with is effectly free energy substitution.  The Master of shaping might also qualify, I forget if shape spell is a metamagic feat or something else.

The escalation mage in Faiths of Eberron can apply Heighten, Empower, Widen, and quicken a few times a day.


wotmaniac

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2010, 12:02:42 PM »
Radiant Servant of Pelor (CDiv) : Empower + Maximize for Healing Domain spells.

Master Transmogrifist (CArc) : Extend, Silent, & Still for Transmutation spells that are used to change in to "favored shape"

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

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More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

McPoyo

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2010, 12:09:16 PM »
Dragonlance: Age of Mortals sourcebook, on page 209, has the "Undead Battery" feat. It allows you to temporarily drain hit die from undead to power MM at a 1 hd/+1 spell level ratio.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
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Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

jameswilliamogle

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2010, 01:01:06 PM »
Dragonlance: Age of Mortals sourcebook, on page 209, has the "Undead Battery" feat. It allows you to temporarily drain hit die from undead to power MM at a 1 hd/+1 spell level ratio.
!  I must have this book...

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2010, 01:10:14 PM »
Holy shit I have that book. I think i'm building a dread necro soon  :devil. (as a side note it requires sorcery or mysticism [basically defined as spontaneous casting in DL] and 6th level necromancy spells.)
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2010, 01:23:54 PM »
That's a MUST HAVE L12 Dread Necromancer feat.  For realz, dog.

McPoyo

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2010, 01:40:27 PM »
Funny part is that it is in an unlisted sidebar entry, so unless you've looked through the book...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Nemain

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2010, 01:40:42 PM »
Spelldancer, from Magic of Faerun, was mentioned in the previous thread and I'm re-iterating it here. You can spelldance your metamagic for 1 round/level adjustment, and can get away with Spelldancer level + constitution modifier rounds of it a day. It's unupdated 3.0, but if we're mentioning the 3rd party Metaphysical Spellshaper, I see no reason not to mention this.

This may well become my very favourite handbook ever ;)

RelentlessImp

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2010, 02:26:39 PM »
Updated to this point. Will be filling in metamagic feats over the next couple of days - there's a giant amount of them, after all.
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I prepared irresistible phantasmal killer today... as a 4th level spell.
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McPoyo

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2010, 02:31:50 PM »
This is a compiled list I had of all the mm feats in the wotc books, and their source books (not page numbers, though). Scrolling through the lists, I noticed some were missing, so in case you had already noted some of these down and hadn't gotten to add them yet:
[spoiler]
SLA   Feat    Source
0   Black Lore of Moil    CA
0   Born of the Three Thunders   CA
0   Cooperative Spell    CA
0   Energy Substitution    CA
0   Lord of the Uttercold    CA
0   Sanctum Spell    CA
1   Blistering Spell    PHB II
1   Consecrate Spell    CD
1   Corrupt Spell    CD
1   Energize Spell    LM
1   Enervate Spell    LM
1   Enlarge Spell    PHB
1   Extend Spell    PHB
1   Fell Weaken    LM
1   Fiery Spell    SS
1   Flash Frost Spell    PHB II
1   Imbued Summoning    PHB II
1   Nonlethal Substitution    CA
1   Piercing Cold    FB
1   Purify Spell    BoED
1   Rapid Spell    CD
1   Sculpt Spell    CA
1   Searing Spell    SS
1   Silent Spell    PHB
1   Smiting Spell    PHB II
1   Still Spell    PHB
1   Transdimensional Spell    CD & CA
2   Earthbound Spell    PHB II
2   Empower Spell    PHB
2   Explosive Spell    CA
2   Fell Drain    LM
2   Fell Frighten    LM
2   Occular Spell    LoM
2   Reach Spell    CD
2   Split Ray    CA
3   Chain Spell    CA
3   Delay Spell    CA
3   Fell Animate    LM
3   Maximize Spell    PHB
3   Repeat Spell    CA
3   Widen Spell    PHB
4   Energy Admixture    CA
4   Quicken Spell    PHB
4   Twin Spell    CA
6   Persistent Spell    CA
v   Fortify Spell    CA
v   Heighten Spell    PHB
[/spoiler]
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

KellKheraptis

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2010, 02:32:30 PM »
Don't forget Unresistable Spell from Kingdoms of Kalamar.  +4 levels to kill someone by  :fu them off.
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wotmaniac

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2010, 02:58:31 PM »
Dragonlance: Age of Mortals sourcebook, on page 209, has the "Undead Battery" feat. It allows you to temporarily drain hit die from undead to power MM at a 1 hd/+1 spell level ratio.
I've had this book for a while .... I just noticed this -- THANK YOU!!!

Why is this not a part of EVERY build that can make use of it?!

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

McPoyo

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2010, 03:01:17 PM »
Dragonlance: Age of Mortals sourcebook, on page 209, has the "Undead Battery" feat. It allows you to temporarily drain hit die from undead to power MM at a 1 hd/+1 spell level ratio.
I've had this book for a while .... I just noticed this -- THANK YOU!!!

Why is this not a part of EVERY build that can make use of it?!
It's pretty damn nasty when used with a BBEG. I've had quite a bit of fun just blasting with an uttercold assault styled necromancer getting free metamagic to blast at parties. Free maximize or empower to chained or split-ray'd negative level spells will really put fear into PCs, even if they are quite a bit stronger than the caster.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

RelentlessImp

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2010, 03:03:38 PM »
This is a compiled list I had of all the mm feats in the wotc books, and their source books (not page numbers, though). Scrolling through the lists, I noticed some were missing, so in case you had already noted some of these down and hadn't gotten to add them yet:
[spoiler]
SLA   Feat    Source
0   Black Lore of Moil    CA
0   Born of the Three Thunders   CA
0   Cooperative Spell    CA
0   Energy Substitution    CA
0   Lord of the Uttercold    CA
0   Sanctum Spell    CA
1   Blistering Spell    PHB II
1   Consecrate Spell    CD
1   Corrupt Spell    CD
1   Energize Spell    LM
1   Enervate Spell    LM
1   Enlarge Spell    PHB
1   Extend Spell    PHB
1   Fell Weaken    LM
1   Fiery Spell    SS
1   Flash Frost Spell    PHB II
1   Imbued Summoning    PHB II
1   Nonlethal Substitution    CA
1   Piercing Cold    FB
1   Purify Spell    BoED
1   Rapid Spell    CD
1   Sculpt Spell    CA
1   Searing Spell    SS
1   Silent Spell    PHB
1   Smiting Spell    PHB II
1   Still Spell    PHB
1   Transdimensional Spell    CD & CA
2   Earthbound Spell    PHB II
2   Empower Spell    PHB
2   Explosive Spell    CA
2   Fell Drain    LM
2   Fell Frighten    LM
2   Occular Spell    LoM
2   Reach Spell    CD
2   Split Ray    CA
3   Chain Spell    CA
3   Delay Spell    CA
3   Fell Animate    LM
3   Maximize Spell    PHB
3   Repeat Spell    CA
3   Widen Spell    PHB
4   Energy Admixture    CA
4   Quicken Spell    PHB
4   Twin Spell    CA
6   Persistent Spell    CA
v   Fortify Spell    CA
v   Heighten Spell    PHB
[/spoiler]
I'm working off the Realmshelps list and will be filling them in little by little, but that is a very nice list, thank you.

Updated to this point, added a "Metamagic Master" sample build.

EDIT: Screw Explosive Runes. I prepared irresistible phantasmal killer today.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 03:11:55 PM by RelentlessImp »
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I prepared irresistible phantasmal killer today... as a 4th level spell.
"He hit me with a flaming garbage can...and then the god damn hobo next to it!"

dirkformica

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2010, 03:36:12 PM »
The Incantatrix entry needs more info.  They also have Cooperative Metamagic to make Spellcraft checks to apply free metamagic effects. Metamagic Effect (capital E) to apply metamagic effects (lower case e) to persistent spells already in place using Spellcraft checks.  Metamagic Spell Trigger to apply metamagic effects to spells cast with things like wands and staves.  And Instant Metamagic gives them the ability to apply a free metamagic a number of times per day on the fly (one at 7th, another one at 9th Inc level.)

RelentlessImp

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2010, 03:54:28 PM »
The Incantatrix entry needs more info.  They also have Cooperative Metamagic to make Spellcraft checks to apply free metamagic effects. Metamagic Effect (capital E) to apply metamagic effects (lower case e) to persistent spells already in place using Spellcraft checks.  Metamagic Spell Trigger to apply metamagic effects to spells cast with things like wands and staves.  And Instant Metamagic gives them the ability to apply a free metamagic a number of times per day on the fly (one at 7th, another one at 9th Inc level.)

New Incantatrix entry under Metamagic for Free. Also added a Tome-specific build for the min/maxers in the Tome crowd.
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"He hit me with a flaming garbage can...and then the god damn hobo next to it!"

jolt

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2010, 04:16:36 PM »
Relicguard Spell (Dragon Magazine 347 p89): easy +0 metamagic

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Metamagic and You: A Thesis
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2010, 04:19:34 PM »
Don't forget Unresistable Spell from Kingdoms of Kalamar.  +4 levels to kill someone by  :fu them off.

You see, this is exactly why you shouldn't mix campaign settings.

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