Author Topic: [Pathfinder] Best Builds for GISH?  (Read 10651 times)

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S_Jerusalem

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[Pathfinder] Best Builds for GISH?
« on: October 29, 2010, 08:07:38 PM »
I have a friend interested in playing a Gish in our future PF (with most official Paizo sources, including APG) Game. I can build a caster just fine, same with a melee character, but I have never been much for playing the Gish unless it's built into the class, ala Duskblade.

So, there are some things I have heard mention of on the Paizo boards that I thought I would ask the masterful optimizers here about, and to get general suggestions and build ideas.

I don't really want to bring Bard into the mix, as we have already discussed at length the Arcane Duelist variant, so please I am more looking for full-casting classes.

Witch seems like a very interesting option with access to spells like Heal and Vampiric Touch, while still maintaining a lot of the good lower level controller spells like Glitterdust and Web. And has access to the full buffing suite if you pick the strength Patron.

EKnight actually seems viable, well mostly the only choice after a point...

Arcane Archer? It looks as if most builds would turn out as 90/30 Fighter/Caster split. I may be underselling the Fighter side, as ranged is very good in PF, so it could be as high as 100. Working off a rough optimized Gish clocking in somewhere around 75/75, with around 10 points varying buy build either way, having a build with full capabilities of one is very powerful, maybe not what he wants to play exactly, but could be fun to examine.

Do you eschew armor?

Take the feat tree that lets you ignore ASF as a Swift action? Tank up and rely on Still Spell in later levels? Some combination of both?

If you plan on finishing EKnight, which you likely will, I'd think you'd want to have those Swift actions to cast spells off your criticals (likely with an 18-20 base weapon) so some level of Stilling will have to come into play eventually if you aren't just a ray caster.

I am also interested personally in seeing a good Rage Prophet build. Heavens seems very potent in the low-mid levels, enough to get you to the point where you have enough PrC levels to be dangerous.

Any suggestions or builds are greatly appreciated, all!

X-Codes

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Re: [Pathfinder] Best Builds for GISH?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2010, 08:19:29 PM »
There's a Bard variant that gets full BAB and d8 HD (I think), so some manner of Bard/Swiftblade/SC combo can get 9th-level spells and +19 BAB.

juton

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Re: [Pathfinder] Best Builds for GISH?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2010, 09:04:56 PM »
I don't remember any bard variant like that.

Anyways a Witch/Wizard Eldritch Knight is probably the best way to go. If you had access to 3.5 spells then the Wizard is better, otherwise the Witch's ability to use healing spells can really help a melee combatant. You only need to take one level of a fightery class to get martial weapon proficiency, Fighter is probably your best choice so you can get the extra bonus feat. The feats that reduce ASF by 10-20% suck, Mage armour is better although you'll really want a healthy dex to help with AC + initiative. You'll want a good Strength because wielding a two handed weapon is still the most effective approach to melee. So initially you want Int>Dex/Str>Con>Wis/Cha. For feats, Power Attack, maybe toughness if your HP is feeling a little anemic, maybe Arcane Strike if you want a small improvement to damage.

X-Codes

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Re: [Pathfinder] Best Builds for GISH?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2010, 10:13:33 PM »
Spellsword, I think it was, only not the PrC, but an alternative class feature of some sort of some class...

Oh well, don't remember.  I'm not huge on Pathfinder, anyway.  Sunic says it best, really.

McPoyo

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Re: [Pathfinder] Best Builds for GISH?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2010, 12:58:06 PM »
There's a kind of Duskblade-lite in the new class playtest.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
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They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
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[/spoiler]

juton

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Re: [Pathfinder] Best Builds for GISH?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2010, 02:32:49 PM »
There's a kind of Duskblade-lite in the new class playtest.

Yeah, friends don't let friends play a Magus. There are a bunch of 3/4 BAB, 6th level casting classes in the new APG, the best is the Summoner, although the Alchemist would probably be adequate in melee. Although none of them hold a candle to a properly built Eldritch Knight, or even an Arcane Archer, which makes me wonder why they bothered.

McPoyo

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Re: [Pathfinder] Best Builds for GISH?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2010, 02:36:43 PM »
There's a kind of Duskblade-lite in the new class playtest.

Yeah, friends don't let friends play a Magus. There are a bunch of 3/4 BAB, 6th level casting classes in the new APG, the best is the Summoner, although the Alchemist would probably be adequate in melee. Although none of them hold a candle to a properly built Eldritch Knight, or even an Arcane Archer, which makes me wonder why they bothered.
I still favor Battle Oracles, myself...but that's more like a Favored Soul with some bonuses.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: [Pathfinder] Best Builds for GISH?
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2010, 03:12:16 PM »
Alchemist maybe? You could be a fairly good mixed threat with a variety of buffs, long duration mutagens and bombs for debuffing.
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: [Pathfinder] Best Builds for GISH?
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2010, 03:22:00 PM »
Artificer (3rd party material).  I bought that book, too, and you don't gain anything from owning it vs. the PFSRD.  The class needs high Int, just "meh" Cha.  Leaves a lot to be done with melee stats.