Author Topic: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?  (Read 3650 times)

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Endarire

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What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« on: October 18, 2010, 07:00:59 AM »
I've read the Wilder class description and the lower number of powers known greatly hampers it.  A Psion gets the same amount of base PP at each level and tied to a better stat (INT).  Being dazed from using an expected class ability seems like a trap.

Alsp, Psions natively get access to discipline powers, and at least 1 more power each level.
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Bozwevial

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2010, 07:43:54 AM »
Overchannel is a safer bet than a Wilder, really. With the Wilder, you get the PP and ML boost (and it's bigger than Overchannel) for free, but then you might wind up dazed with a net PP loss. With Overchannel, you can just soak the damage through Vigor/Share Pain.

X-Codes

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2010, 08:39:51 AM »
AFAIK Wilders were actually cool back when Psionics really were broken, so they made them into a 3e class as a holdover, but totally screwed up on the Wild Surge mechanic.

Maat_Mons

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2010, 10:17:02 AM »
By way of making lemonade, you can take the mark of the dauntless feat (Dragonmarked) to gain immunity to daze.  In that case, the only drawback to wild surge is that you sometimes pay extra power points.  Since you usually basically get free power points, you generally come out ahead on average, though it depends on your level.  In any case, you're essentially getting overchannel with a higher limit and no damage. 

The educated wilder variant trades volatile mind for four expanded knowledge feats.  It's still worse than a psion's bonus feats, but it's an improvement. 

skydragonknight

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 10:30:28 AM »
...you get high level Astral Constructs early. That's about it, too.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 03:18:07 PM »
...you get high level Astral Constructs early. That's about it, too.
You can get high level ACs early anyway. I was pulling out Level 8 constructs at ECL 10 with my shaper 5/constructor 5 (I used a way to get bonus skill ranks, yo), and I could've gotten larger boosts, had I really tried.

Seriously, if you do it right, you can be hitting level 9 constructs really early on.
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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 07:22:44 PM »
Wilders do make better tanks than psychic warriors. Wilders also make pretty good blasters since you only need one or two blasting powers.

Plus when you do wild surge nothing bad will happen to you 85-90% of the time, so for that 85%-90 of the time you're getting something for nothing. Overchannel's progression is slow and you will take damage 100% of the time.

Cha is potentially the most abusable stat with proper skill, feat, and multiclassing choices. For example having intimidate (with the never outnumbered skill trick, fearsome armor, and the imperious command feat) and the demoralize power makes you a 'scary' fear-based debuffer.

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2010, 08:07:51 PM »
At high levels, yeah the Wilder is obviously gimped by 1 level and much fewer powers available on list or now.
The only real use for Wild Surge is making higher ML psi items. Euphoria can't be counted on.
Luckily PsyRef can get most other 8th level powers available in some way.

At low levels, Wilder can do Recharge better than any other psi-class.
ReWilder is kinda like a Warlock, but you can't choose warlocky powers. That's just stupid.

Mid levels, it gets somewhat boring; but that's just me.
The Mantled version is good stuff ... if the Mantles get substitute powers, it's better.
The Educated version can be done with Mantled too. Obviously an upgrade.

You want 1/2 the powers, and 1/2 the feats of a Psion? Nope.
But it is playable, and it's sort-of easy. You can't go too far afield with it.
I've had beginning players love  :love the Wilder,
mostly for the cheesy role-playing, combined with an acceptible power level.

nijineko

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 03:23:29 AM »
they buff really well.

also, they fit the same category that most chess players fall into: they start taking away pieces until the game is reduced to a level of strategy that the person can handle. less pieces, easier choices. great for the simple or the beginner or the time strapped. and with psyref and power stones and crowns and other items, they really aren't all that limited. especially crowns, since you can craft your own, and you can use your own level with them.
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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2010, 05:09:17 AM »
If you were interested in setting an effective-manifester-level record you'd likely start with Wilder. Yes, Overchannel psion is the better option a very great deal of the time, but it does scale more slowly than Wild Surge. Get immunity to daze, Enervation Endurance, and some form of 'reroll any roll x/day' ability, of which there are many, and you've greatly mitigated the risks of wild surging.


It's a perfectly viable class and does have its own narrow niche of 'can, riskily, pump a few more pp into augmenting its powers than a psion can', but it is weaker under most circumstances.

RobbyPants

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2010, 11:40:31 AM »
Overchannel is a safer bet than a Wilder, really. With the Wilder, you get the PP and ML boost (and it's bigger than Overchannel) for free, but then you might wind up dazed with a net PP loss. With Overchannel, you can just soak the damage through Vigor/Share Pain.
That, coupled with a medium BAB and slightly better HP make it a better candidate for a gish, pre-PrCs.  I've seen some decent builds that take advantage of Expanded Knowledge to get Schism, allowing you to keep a boatload of temp HP up for damage soaking.

It's a simple trick, but that's about the best I've seen from the class.  That, and it might be an "easy mode" psion for new players or something.  That, and it's implied emo-ness might appeal to some.
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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2010, 03:53:23 PM »
To suck compared to the psion, or even ardent. It does a wonderful job.  :P
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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2010, 04:08:06 PM »
To be the equivalent of a Psionic Pump-action Shotgun: Low ammo, high power, and needs to be pumped to work properly.


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Rebel7284

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2010, 04:23:54 PM »
needs to be pumped to work properly.

Of course the high charisma helps in being "pumped", right? ;)
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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2010, 04:32:59 PM »
needs to be pumped to work properly.

Of course the high charisma helps in being "pumped", right? ;)

No. Only blown.


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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2010, 07:50:30 PM »
With a Schism, Wilder can do both ...  :eh

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2010, 07:51:26 PM »
Look, you're playing a druid, and, hey, that's pretty wild, but why not kick it up a notch?
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Mixster

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2010, 08:32:53 PM »
It's got a good synergy with sorcerer Cerebremancer.

Really, I think it's just the sorc version to the psions wizard, except the psion is already closer to a sorc than a wizard.

Techincally I think one shouldn't play with wilders, allow psions to use either Int or Cha for their casting stat (chosen at level 1), and use the Erudite as the Psionic wizard.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Bozwevial

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2010, 08:37:32 PM »
Look, you're playing a druid, and, hey, that's pretty wild, but why not kick it up a notch?
Do you happen to know the sourcebook with the PrC Wildest?

skydragonknight

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Re: What's the main purpose of a Wilder?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2010, 08:33:26 PM »
Heck, the one prestige class in a WotC book designed for Wilders can't even be gotten into by a Wilder until after 13th level because Knowledge(the planes) isn't a Wilder class skill.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.