How do you feel about being able to buy feats with cash?

[Endarire]

Complete Scoundrel 154's Otyugh Hole location offers a permanent Iron Will/Extend Rage/Skill Focus: Intimidate for 3,000G.  There's an ioun stone which grants Alertness for 8K.  Even in core, you can buy feats on items, despite them being weak.

The notion of buying feats helps everyone, and gives non-casters a better chance to keep pace with casters, but there are probably plenty of examples where buying feats would help casters far more than non-casters.

I like the notion of buying feats, however, in some regards.  Part of me thinks it cheapens the game by making what should be big-ticket items on sale for cheap.  Then I realize casters win D&D so long as they have reliable magic.

[Maat_Mons]

I don't really like the idea of assigning a flat gp to feat conversion.  I could get behind assigning gp costs to acquire specific feats on a case-by case basis.  I think the best feats shouldn't be available for any price.  Any feat that optimizers generally wouldn't take except to meet a prerequisite probably wouldn't change game balance too much if it could be bought.  This may require adjusting prerequisites, but those could use adjustment anyway in many cases. 

[archangel.arcanis]

It actually gives casters even more of an advantage as they have the quickest routes to infinite money. If they are nice they will make money and let their companions spend it on feats but that comes down to the player and not the mechanics. The best part about the buying of feats as it is is that most you can buy are crappy ones anyway and are normally only used as pre-reqs.

[Lycanthromancer]

Spend XP on feats. Casters have to pay 4x more than non-casters, and you can't substitute XP-substitutions (such as via ambrosia) for the XP.

[bearsarebrown]

isn't this exact thread already on the front page?

[Tenebrous Apostate]

Food for thought: There is a splatbook from sword and sorcery named chaositec wich describes technology like equipment classes and monsters. One of the mind implants gives a bonus feet for 20.000gp and a brain surgery that takes 2 weeks to recover from...

[RobbyPants]

The notion of buying feats helps everyone, and gives non-casters a better chance to keep pace with casters, but there are probably plenty of examples where buying feats would help casters far more than non-casters.

Like metamagic rods?  The game probably wouldn't be hurt any by not allowing these.  Since casters are less gear dependent than non-casters, they can invest in these to pull off some pretty sick tricks.

[PhaedrusXY]

I think all forms of buying feats should not be allowed, including flaws. I also think feats shouldn't suck, but that's a much bigger issue...

[archangel.arcanis]

I think all forms of buying feats should not be allowed, including flaws. I also think feats shouldn't suck, but that's a much bigger issue...

Well until fixes like what you did in Exiled start to apply money really does = power in D&D. I would love to disconnect the standard economy from items that give your character real power, which would include feats and magical items for the most part.

[Amechra]

I say, from a balance standpoint, you should only get feats as treasure, not on the economy.

Maybe have the feat temporarily replace feats you already have? So, for example, you could have a sword that replaces your 6th level feat (no matter what it was) with a certain fighter feat.

Or have the feats be temporary in a different way: you have ~3 uses of them, and they vanish after that.

Or have places where you could train for feats, and remember that casters are much more paranoid about other people's power and abilities than your average fighting class...

[altpersona]

in a world that has boots that help you jump or climb walls, swords and shields that only need an owner to initiate them then they do all the fighting and defending... items granting feats are not very special..

most feats are not worth the paper they are printed on. the thirty that are, are invaluable..

is it more broken to have feats via items, ya maybe. but i dont recall any feat as good as a 5th lvl spell.

iir, most skills and feats are superseded, circumvented or outdone by 2nd level spells.

[PhaedrusXY]

I think all forms of buying feats should not be allowed, including flaws. I also think feats shouldn't suck, but that's a much bigger issue...

Well until fixes like what you did in Exiled start to apply money really does = power in D&D. I would love to disconnect the standard economy from items that give your character real power, which would include feats and magical items for the most part.

Yes, at it's core this is a problem with the D&D economy more than it is with feats. But the fact that most feats just flat out suck, but some are awesome, and that PrCs and other feats use prerequisite feats as a "tax" to make you waste valuable character resources on junk, both annoy the crap out of me.

I think feats need to be equalized, especially the ones for non-casters. Most of them are just utter garbage. If you improve them overall, then you certainly shouldn't put a way in the game to get more of them cheaply (i.e. flaws in a Tome game).

But then again, there are already insanely powerful feats in the game like Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic, and Planar Touchstone. Obviously letting people buy those feats is a bad idea (at least IMO). If those feats aren't banned, even letting them buy other feats is a bad idea, since it lets them get those feats earlier than they would have without it.

So, in summary, letting people buy feats is a bad idea, no matter what, except for feats that just plain suck, and even then it's only OK if they aren't being used to let someone make a power grab (i.e. buy Iron Will so they can get to Incantatrix 3 and start Persisting their whole party's spells immediately... like my wizard in Amechra's game will be doing. ). If they're just buying Iron Will for a +2 to Will saves, go ahead. But who's going to do that?

[SorO_Lost]

If they're just buying Iron Will for a +2 to Will saves, go ahead. But who's going to do that?

My warblades? My gishes, oh and my bards. Hell everything high enough in level I have the WBL to snag all those little trinkets you can't afford until the end.

Srsly, 3k for +2 unnamed to will saves? Can I get the other feats too?
Bracers of Empyreal Armor +6: 64,000gp
Vest of Resistance +5: 25,000gp
All three feats: 9,000gp
Having +13 to all saves for less than 98,001gp when the wizard casts save or dies on you: Priceless, no not really. Just 98,000gp.

Don't forget, Luckstone costs 20,000gp and gives a +1 bonus to saves, oh and Vengeful(+1) armor for a +1 moral bonus to saves. Both tend to cost more than the feat scale presented and offer a lower bonus that doesn't stack with spells/music.

So yeah, PhaedrusXY has a good point on banning the ability to buy feats...

[PhaedrusXY]

Balance has long since flown the coupe at the high end of the game. And the +2 from the feats are only a small part of that, anyway.

And with a warblade, why not just get those maneuvers that let you use a Concentration check instead, and buy a +30 item of Concentration? Yeah, it's only once per round, but that's usually enough. If it isn't, there's always Iron Heart Surge.

[Amechra]

Wait, I have an idea: you just allow purchasing of the absolute shit, and let the good feats be un-purchasable...

[The_Mad_Linguist]

As a DM I occasionally give out feats or skill points or special abilities directly rather than XP or GP.  It's not quite the same thing as buying feats with cash, but it's similar.

[Caelic]

in a world that has boots that help you jump or climb walls, swords and shields that only need an owner to initiate them then they do all the fighting and defending... items granting feats are not very special..

For some reason, I heard that in the Gravelly-Voiced Movie Trailer Guy's voice...

[lianightdemon]

I believe that is the purpose of those. Not as other items, yet people keep putting them into their builds. What if you don't actually get to the location to get said feat? It should be an adventure in itself, and if they succeed they get the reward.

Though they are nice if your character is feat heavy and you lack the feats, especially for prestige classes that have such useless requirements. (Iron Will) They tend to be on prestige classes that already grant a good Will saves.

[Bozwevial]

I believe that is the purpose of those. Not as other items, yet people keep putting them into their builds. What if you don't actually get to the location to get said feat? It should be an adventure in itself, and if they succeed they get the reward.

The problem there is that the Otyugh Hole (which is the most commonly used, IIRC) requires you to...sit in the hole for a certain length of time. That's it. It's a hole, and you sit there. It's not even a well known hole, either, so there's not going to be a lot of excitement (with the possible exception of clearing out the hole to start).

[Saxony]

I believe that is the purpose of those. Not as other items, yet people keep putting them into their builds. What if you don't actually get to the location to get said feat? It should be an adventure in itself, and if they succeed they get the reward.

The problem there is that the Otyugh Hole (which is the most commonly used, IIRC) requires you to...sit in the hole for a certain length of time. That's it. It's a hole, and you sit there. It's not even a well known hole, either, so there's not going to be a lot of excitement (with the possible exception of clearing out the hole to start).

I agree, though some DM's might make it tougher because of the following paragraph:

Location Activation: Gaining the benefits of an otyugh
hole requires enduring a full week of existence within it.

One difference between an otyugh hole and the other
legendary sites described here is that a lawbreaking character
might end up visiting (and thus gaining the benefit
of) an otyugh hole without intentionally seeking it out.