Author Topic: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?  (Read 13703 times)

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Endarire

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What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« on: October 18, 2010, 05:31:09 AM »
Being a domain Elf Generalist (Races of the Wild substitution level) applied to a gray elf or fire elf (or a fire gray elf) seems the best place to start.  Where else should I look?

Prospective Build
Dragonborn Fire Gray Elf Generalist Domain Martial Wizard5/Ruathar2/Shadowcraft Mage5/Fatespinner3/ArchmageX/Fatespinner+X/Ruathar+X

Stats (32 Point Buy)
6/14/14/22/12/6

1: {Aggressive}, Collegiate Wizard, [Domain: Conjuration OR Transmutation], [Familiar: Hummingbird], [Improved Initiative], Mercantile Background, {Murky-Eyed}, {Noncombatant}, {Passionate}, Spell Focus: Illusion
2:
3: [Familiar Gives Double Bonus], Fiery Burst, [Iron Will from O Hole]
4:
5: [Spontaneous Divination]
6: Heighten Spell
7:
8:
9: Summon Elemental
10:
11:
12: School Focus: PICK
13:
14:
15: Skill Focus: Spellcraft
16: [Mastery of Shaping OR Spell Power]
17: [Spell-like Ability: time stop]
18: [Mastery of Shaping OR Spell Power], -=FEAT=-
19:
20:

NOTE: I went Mercantile Background instead of Otherworldly for extra starting cash, more gold overall, and cheaper purchases.  Plus, perhaps my DM will be more lenient on my scroll selection if I'm a merchant.

I also know I could've dipped Mindbender, but there's a Psion in our group who has her heart set on being one.  I want to let her feel exclusive in that regard; else, I would've taken it ASAP.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 06:49:23 AM by Endarire »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

gorfnad

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2010, 06:04:47 AM »
Here is something I posted here a while back
Quote
Easy Bake No "Worries" Wizard

Elf, preferably Gray

Elf Wizard Racial Sub - Races of the Wild
Eidetic Spellcaster ACF - Dragon Magazine #357
Spontaneous Divination ACF - Complete Champion - Optional but great at higher levels
Collegiate Wizard feat - Complete Arcane

1st Level - 7+ Int mod 1st level spells known, all cantrips, 1 extra spell per day of highest level
No Familiar, No Scribe Scroll, No Spellbook

If flaws are available
Precocious Apprentice: Melf's Acid Arrow, Ice Knife, or Combust - Complete Arcane
Acidic Splatter, Winter's Blast, or Fiery Burst - Complete Mage
Sacred Vow + Vow of Poverty - Book of Exalted Deeds - depending on the campaign, this may work

Note: Every level after 1st that advances wizard spellcasting gets you 5 spells known for free instead of the usual 2
Edit: If you're playing in Eberron, the feat Aerenal Arcanist (Player's Guide to Eberron) will net you an additional spell known per level netting you 8+Int spells at 1st level and 6 additional spells known every level after that.
Basically look into the feats Collegiate Wizard and Aerenal Arcanist. These two feats together will give you an insane number of spells known when combined Elf Generalist Wizard ACF. If you go with Eidetic Spellcaster then you will not be reliant on a spellbook. Eschew Materials will also make it so that you only need material components 1gp or higher. You can have these three feats (Collegiate Wizard, Aerenal Arcanist, and Eschew Materials) at first level with two flaws. From there look into the best battlefield control  and utility spells you can find.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 06:08:06 AM by gorfnad »

Endarire

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2010, 06:20:08 AM »
Why take Eschew Materials when a spell component pouch does the same without the feat?

Also, as an elf generalist, what can I trade for my familiar?

What PrCs work well with this generalist, assuming I want to keep access to all my spell schools?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 06:23:03 AM by Endarire »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2010, 06:23:56 AM »
Eh, keep your familiar.  It's pretty good if it's a raven or something.
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Endarire

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 06:44:58 AM »
Hummingbird, ideally.  I remembered that after I asked.

Go go uber initiative!
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 11:00:38 AM »
If you want to ditch your familiar the only real option is to pick the "Wizard of the Sun and Moon" ACF from Dungeonscape. It lets you prepare two spells in one slot. One spell is only available to be cast when you are above ground and during the day, and the other is available to be cast when it is night time or when you are underground.

It lets you slip in some versatility.
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Rebel7284

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 11:05:42 AM »
Needs more Incantatrix if you want optimal =)
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juton

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2010, 02:40:11 PM »
Unearthed Arcana has a variant called a 'Domain Wizard', you gain an extra spell per level, which you don't get to choose, and you have to give up... nothing. Well I guess you have to quite calling yourself a 'generalist' but other than the name change you loose nothing.

jameswilliamogle

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2010, 04:02:59 PM »
Its got Domain Wizard in there already.

I'd make room for Alacritious Cogitation and/or Uncanny Forethought + Spell Mastery, personally, and not use all your feats to try to fit into several PrCs which aren't really that great.  Ditch Summon Elemental <- its a worthless feat.

I'd ditch Archmage.  Since all this stuff is available, I'd bet that Rods of Reach Spell and Extraordinary Spell Aim (or whatever it is) is available too.  Saves you 3 feats (well, not really, since you have shadowcraft mage in there.  

I'm not sure how you are getting into Shadowcraft Mage as a non-gnome (adaptation section of the PrC?).  I don't like the class in real tabletop games unless the character is extremely focused on just using it (which is counter to being a Generalist).

Fatespinner 4 is OK, and Ruathar 2, too, and Shadowcraft Mage 5, but try to keep those low BAB classes at even levels.  Try to use fractional BAB if you can.

I don't see any Incanatrix; its always worth it to lose Evocation for it [if you have ScM in there], and the 4 bonus feats it gives are a welcome addition.

In short, I think the build you have is feat starved and doesn't have enough "general" Wizard stuff in it (almost no metamagics, no crafting).  Those crafting feats are worthwhile, and the best reason to be a generalist, imo.

\\\///
Here's a true generalist along similar lines:
Grey Elf Wizard 15 / Loremaster 5 (same elf sub level) (domain if its allowed)

1,f,f,b Collegiate Wizard, Alacritious Cogitation, Mercantile Background (stole this idea), Scribe Scroll
3 Craft Wonderous Item
5b Spell Mastery
6 Uncanny Forethought
9 Craft Rod
10b Quicken Spell
12 Maximize Spell
15,b Improved Familiar, Skill Focus: Knowledge The Planes
18,b Spell Mastery, Forge Ring

End up with about 20 spells you can spontaneously cast 12 times per day (+1), a lot of crafting to help the party, your own metamagic rods to save costs and rapidly quicken them, a Quasit that can turn into a Wolf which you can ride around for kicks, UMD out the wazoo so you can actually use those personal only Divine Spells if you get the urge.

Its a generalist Wizard with all the general Wizardly gifts. 
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 04:12:58 PM by jameswilliamogle »

Dawnmor

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2011, 05:55:06 PM »
Sense no one else will mention it, you CANT take mercantile background as an Elf, its a DWARF feat only.

X-Codes

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2011, 06:29:46 PM »
I don't like the sketchiness in some of these things being done.  "Fire Grey Elves" are not playable in most games, since the typical rule is that Fire Elves and Grey Elves are both "Elf" variants.  Also, IIRC you need to give up your specialization options to play a Domain wizard, which you also have to do with that Elf Wizard Sub-level.

In any case, I think the optimized generalist Wizard would feature a strong familiar.  The Coure Eladrin can use Silent Image at-will if you use Limited Wish and hit it with a Psy-Ref (I believe the feat you need it to take is Deceptive Illumination from DotU).  If you can get it past a DM, then the Silvanshee Agathion from Pathfinder is just plain awesome.  If you're not good-aligned, then Imps are likewise the shit.  Up until you have the required CL, use a Hummingbird familiar (once you meet the CL requirements, you're starting to get Celerity and it's cousins).

As for other ACFs, check out the Planar Wizard sub-levels.  If you can make yourself native to an aligned plane, then you can pull a free +2 bonus to your save DCs with your 10th Wizard level and the Planar Bubble spell, and get another +2 with a single feat investment.  Combined with 20 Int starting as an Elf, you've hit the foundation for very high save DCs.

Nachofan99

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2011, 06:36:54 PM »
I agree with X-Codes.  The thing is, if you read Elf Generalist and Domain Wizard just so, you *can* get both.   You can also get the Drow of the Underdark Abyssal Specialist in there as well if you want to read it that way.

The writers just did not codify the seperate ACFs the right way; they don't all follow exactly the same syntax.   The thing is, it's obvious what was intended.

Same thing with "Fire Grey Elves" etc. 

Definitely keep the familiar over Sun and Moon variant which is just not that strong.

Tr011

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2011, 07:54:57 PM »
Needs more Incantatrix if you want optimal =)
Incantatrix gives up a spell school and needs a crappy feat (since will save will allready be uber). But it can be ok since evocation is crappy anyway, but even evocation has some spells that are useful.

3: Fiery Burst
6: Heighten Spell
9: Summon Elemental
I don't understand these. What are the reserve-Feats for if you can use Miser With Magic (Kingdoms of Kalamar, even if I'm not so sure atm if this is 3.5).
Please someone check if it's 3.5, if it is, it would be a great feat for your optimized generalist.

I don't see why you choose Heighten Spell.
You should also consider if Spontaneous Divination is really good, an alternative would be to go Nocturnmancer for two levels (check out the Adaption part: if your not playing with Shadow Magic, your DM should allow this since it's official material, it removes a part of the requirements so you auto-qualify by level 3). It allows you to 1/day counter any spell as immediate action and you absorb spell power whenever dispelling.
Also, I agree with jameswilliamogle, Alacritious Cogitation is a VERY useful feat for a generalist wizard. There's always the time you say "Oh F***, I should have prepared this one special spell today that would totally save me right now".

BTW: I'd use the Transmutation Domain if your party got a BSF to haste (or ex.retreat) up, if your party doesn't really got any BSF, use the Conjuration for SM4 and stuff.

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2011, 11:18:36 PM »
Needs more Incantatrix if you want optimal =)
Incantatrix gives up a spell school and needs a crappy feat (since will save will allready be uber). But it can be ok since evocation is crappy anyway, but even evocation has some spells that are useful.
You'll notice that you don't care to ban evocation because 1) 95% of the school suck, 2) Shadowcraft Mage, and 3) you get Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole for 3k gp from Complete Scoundrel.

3: Fiery Burst
6: Heighten Spell
9: Summon Elemental
I don't understand these. What are the reserve-Feats for if you can use Miser With Magic (Kingdoms of Kalamar, even if I'm not so sure atm if this is 3.5).
Please someone check if it's 3.5, if it is, it would be a great feat for your optimized generalist.

I don't see why you choose Heighten Spell.
You should also consider if Spontaneous Divination is really good, an alternative would be to go Nocturnmancer for two levels (check out the Adaption part: if your not playing with Shadow Magic, your DM should allow this since it's official material, it removes a part of the requirements so you auto-qualify by level 3). It allows you to 1/day counter any spell as immediate action and you absorb spell power whenever dispelling.
Also, I agree with jameswilliamogle, Alacritious Cogitation is a VERY useful feat for a generalist wizard. There's always the time you say "Oh F***, I should have prepared this one special spell today that would totally save me right now".

BTW: I'd use the Transmutation Domain if your party got a BSF to haste (or ex.retreat) up, if your party doesn't really got any BSF, use the Conjuration for SM4 and stuff.
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Tr011

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2011, 11:27:09 PM »
Heighten Spell.. Shadowcraft Mage. It's even semi-decent with those Reserve feats, and is a decent feat all on its own.

Alacritous Cogitation is bad. Look into Uncanny Forethought from Exemplars of Evil.
All right, forgot about the Heighten-Reserve-Synergie. Also, Uncanny Forethought looks good, IF you got the requirements.
Also, I'm wondering all the time how Shadowcraft Mage is going. You use a (let's say) 60% real Tiny Hut, a Demiball out of Force. Or you use 60% real Scimitar's (great Sandstorm spell). How do you handle them, compared to 100% real ones?

Endarire

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2011, 09:19:50 AM »
60% real means damage is reduced to 60% normal and nondamaging effects only have a 60% chance to work.  Otherwise, they fail like a mook attacking a displaced Wizard.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Echoes

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2011, 01:15:17 PM »
Heighten Spell.. Shadowcraft Mage. It's even semi-decent with those Reserve feats, and is a decent feat all on its own.

Alacritous Cogitation is bad. Look into Uncanny Forethought from Exemplars of Evil.
All right, forgot about the Heighten-Reserve-Synergie. Also, Uncanny Forethought looks good, IF you got the requirements.
Also, I'm wondering all the time how Shadowcraft Mage is going. You use a (let's say) 60% real Tiny Hut, a Demiball out of Force. Or you use 60% real Scimitar's (great Sandstorm spell). How do you handle them, compared to 100% real ones?

What Endarire said.

More generally, ScMs get going by pushing their quasi-reality => 100%, thereby side-stepping the whole deal. It's hard to do it for everything, but most of your offensive options (which is what you care about when it comes to quasi-reality) can be pushed to at least 100%.
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X-Codes

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2011, 03:56:11 PM »
60% real means damage is reduced to 60% normal and nondamaging effects only have a 60% chance to work.  Otherwise, they fail like a mook attacking a displaced Wizard.
Only if the target makes a Will save, and with a +1 racial bonus, +1 bonus from Spell Focus, likely large Intelligence score, and massive spell level from Heighten Spell shenanigans, there's a solid chance that it's just not going to happen.

If that's not good enough for you, you can use a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (or simply hang out on the Plane of Shadow until you get either the Shadow or Dark templates and buy off the LA), and then cast Planar Bubble.  The magic trait of the plane of shadow greatly enhances the reality of your shadow spells, and might even apply some free metamagic IIRC.  They're both solid templates in their own right, too, especially if you can buy off the LA.

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Re: What if I wanted to be an optimal Generalist Wizard?
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2011, 08:29:44 PM »
For a generalist wizard ... this build is really hard to beat.

Such great ideas in the build structure!