Lowest level for two tier 1's to Destroy an entire major metropolis's Industry?

[Gavinfoxx]

Hi there... I was wondering what the lowest level, and with the lowest expenditure of resources, that a straight classed druid and a straight classed artificer (in a two person party, maybe with a few hireables) could work together to, uhm, annihilate the major source of industry and pollution of an extremely large and major Toril metropolis?

Cause I was looking for the 'most polluting cities on Toril', and I think I found it...

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Hiyal

Of course, this could be done a few ways -- either the whole 'do a major series of quests to resolve this issue and change the face of industry of this city'.

But... Cmon... it's a freaking Druid and a Freaking Artificer.  They should totally be able to take the defenders of a major metropolis and destroy some foundries / kilns / mines / etc. and make it so that level of industry can never be practiced to that extent in that area ever again at low teen levels, right? I mean in a straight out assault? Right? Even if it's basically as strategic a location as, um, Detroit in World War II? How would they do it?

Assume that they can probably get however much money they need for any particular specific spell effect, but the wealth per level is simply 'above normal for an entire party' split amongst two people, with the artificer having the lion's share of the wealth (cause the druid has less need for stuff, and chooses to buy stuff from the Artificer at full list price, after splitting loot 50/50, with occasional gifts and discounts given to her).

Assume it's straight classed druid and straight classed artificer.  Assume this is for a high power, but not theoretical optimization game.  Assume they are optimized to be powerful and versatile in general, but not to do this particular task with all of their resources.... this is for a REAL actually played game, guys!

What would you suggest to do this?  Also, if the characters wanted to NOT BE EVIL, how could their resources be used to accomplish this goal?  Do you have any ideas for replacing that huge metallurgy (and presumably steel) industry with a method of solving the same problem that is less polluting? I don't know much about foundries, metalworking kilns, and smithies... Would an extremely large amount of access to Wall of Iron, Fabricate, Shape Metal, and Metal Melt obsolete these polluting industries, or encourage them?

EDITED NOTE: I have responded in the thread with a few clarifications!

[altpersona]

item that makes ladders, worker that splits ladders and sells 10ft poles.

item that makes wall of iron, sell iron.

item that makes flesh to salt + chicken infested, sell salt.

[JaronK]

By level 3 or so your Artificer can make Eternal Wands of Explosive Runes.  Place these runes in hidden locations around the city, and blow them up with an intentionally failed dispel magic (also off an Eternal Wand) when you have enough to destroy whatever they're on.  That ought to do the trick.

JaronK

[Epimetheus]

The runes might be good. I don't know if they can reach everywhere in the metropolis easily though.

Summon Nature's Ally III Thoqqua lets the Druid do this at 5th level. It may take a few days though. Extend Sticks will help the summons last longer, for sure. Pearls of Power can be fed to the druid for extra thoqquas. A Wand of Haste would work too.

These guys burrow through stone and leave a molten wall behind them. That's pretty good for 5th level, and will usually destroy anything it targets. Since thoqquas melt solid rock, I think that metals including steel will also melt at about the same temperature.

If you wanted to be more careful and sure about the money investment, lvl 7 would be good.
Combining Summon Nature's Ally III (as 1 thoqqua) or IV (as 1d3 thoqquas) together would probably be enough to get this done in a single day.
Then have the druid and artificer fly up in the air, and do their thing with pearls of power, extend sticks, and a Wand of SNA III/IV.

Still versatile, as focusing on summons is always a good druid-y thing. And a wand of SNA IV is not only very versatile; it is nice for the unicorn healing.

I don't know how many people you'd kill doing this, so this doesn't qualify as non-evil. Then again, annihilating a city's industry is generally evil, regardless of what the PCs think. If we're going with 'pollution is bad', any druid who does this is a very big jerk. But most druids are anyway.

The only non-evil way would be to actually persuade the metropolis to change itself with Diplomacy. Otherwise, you're just forcing your ideals on them. The metropolis probably hires a lot of people to work in these polluting factories. By Metal Melt, Shape Metal, etc, you're potentially harming innocent civilians who are just working to get by in life. At the same time, you're putting them all out of a job, and potentially onto the street. There's no 'NOT BE EVIL' way, in my opinion, that doesn't involve diplomacy.

Diplomacy optimization is pretty simple though, since the Artificer can load the druid up with shiny magic items that boost their Diplo. A wand of Glibness, and other 'bard-y' things would probably be enough. Tack on some Wands of Insight of Good Fortune and Divine Insight, and you'll probably be good in any social encounter.

I would say that making these magic items is not pinholing you though. Wands of Insight of Good Fortune and Divine Insight are always useful for skill checks. Glibness and the diplo boosting items might not be as much though. You can always sell that wand and the Diplo boosting items to someone else though, if you really didn't want them anymore.

[Toptomcat]

The answer to this question depends almost entirely on how intelligently your opposition is played. A strategically vital planar arms-producing metropolis really ought to have a fair number of mid-high level divinations being used on a reasonably regular basis to ID and preempt any threats against it, and really REALLY ought to have someone capable of casting them to find any malefactors who are already wrecking their shit, so you'll need to be at least high-level enough to craft/buy a Hat of Anonymity or similar effect.

[Epimetheus]

Surviving retribution wasn't one of the goals...

But seriously, is the opposition actually smart? I imagine they'd kill you first, mafia style?, if they were competent.

You could craft an MIC item for that (Boots of Big Stepping) to Greater Teleport away. And maybe the things that protect against scrying and teleport, however you want to do those. These things raise the level needed before you can pull of the attack, of course, since you'd need more and more money each time.

[X-Codes]

I'd guess 13th level.  Cast Greater Consumptive Field several times and walk through the city, just sucking the life (literally) out of the commoners.  When your caster level is high enough to cover the entire river valley (said city is in a river valley), then hit the place with a Control Water spell and flood out the city.

Alternatively, at a lower level you may be able to cause some manner of tidal wave by blocking the river source, flooding a reservoir with Control Water spells, and then unleash a massive flash flood on the city.  That will cause severe damage and kill huge numbers of people, but it might not be as permanent a solution relative to simply dunking the city underwater until everyone's dead.

Actually, another aim could simply be to kill the people and then deal with everything else once they're dead.  Contaminate the river by killing someone with a Contagion spell (Blinding Sickness) and then throw the corpse in the water.  The disease will spread through the water to the inhabitants of the city, causing a plague to break out.  The DC to resist the disease is 16, so even the city's adepts will have trouble combating the plague (heal mod would be about +5).  Only the city's Clerics will have a reasonable shot at curing it, and chances of the commoners or experts recovering is somewhere between 1 in 16 and 1 in 25.  All in all, you're probably looking at an over 80% kill rate.  At 5th level.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Locate city bomb.

[jolt]

I'm thinking more in the direction of using an aoe spell. What are the methods of getting such a large area? I know there's Widen Spell.

[X-Codes]

I'm thinking more in the direction of using an aoe spell. What are the methods of getting such a large area? I know there's Widen Spell.

What TML said.  Locate city has a 10 mile/level emanation, centered on you.  Get some sort of metamagic or something that adds an effect to that area and you have a locate city bomb.

[KellKheraptis]

Locate city bomb.

Doable at level 5 for the arty

EDIT : Oh, and have the druid drop it while wild shaped.  It doesn't have a height, so as long as he's off the ground he can have a bird's eye view, pun intended.

[Benly]

Surviving retribution wasn't one of the goals...

Well, it had better be if they want to get further than "minor nuisance". Basically the problem is that a city like this is almost certain to have a few fairly high-level NPC wizards in it. If you presume Tier 1s Can Do Everything, as seems to be the basic premise here, you sort of also have to presume that NPC wizards can as well and should get the benefit of their superhuman intelligence in not sitting on their thumbs while some young turks try to blow up their city. At that point it turns from "using your theoretical advantages to sucker an unwitting populace" into "playing rocket tag with the NPC wizards".

[Gavinfoxx]

Assume that as a long-term goal, the characters are specced out to 'go toe to toe in Rocket Tag vs. NPC Wizards and Clerics and Psions'.  I don't know exactly what those specs for the two characters would BE, but it's important that they have that capability in the long term!  If you have any ideas, please help with that!  Assume that it is not a *planar* metropolis, but just a large metropolis on the face of Toril, like I linked to... Assume they do NOT have that huge gigantic list of feats in their specs for a damn Locate City Bomb, and they DO have a desire to not be hideously evil... Assume they haven't been using lots of crazy exploits to make money, but they HAVE been creative in getting above their expected wealth per level so far!  Assume they DO want to survive retribution!

[archangel.arcanis]

Locate city bomb.

Doable at level 5 for the arty

EDIT : Oh, and have the druid drop it while wild shaped.  It doesn't have a height, so as long as he's off the ground he can have a bird's eye view, pun intended.

I thought this as well but the OP said not making the character's evil. My guess would be if you level an entire city indiscriminately like that your alignment would take a step or two toward evil. At least with Explosive ruins they are making a decent effort to not cause too much collateral damage.

Quick and dirty, assuming that you are willing to destroy the economy. Hire someone with 10 levels of Entropomancer and grab a Sphere of Annihilation, your DM may look at you funny when you request to go through the Tomb of Horrors (there is a sphere very early in that dungeon). They can then use the sphere to systematically dismantle all of the infrastructure you want and leave the people and homes alone, aside from the 1 or 2 who are foolish enough to touch it.

[archangel.arcanis]

Assume that as a long-term goal, the characters are specced out to 'go toe to toe in Rocket Tag vs. NPC Wizards and Clerics and Psions'.  I don't know exactly what those specs for the two characters would BE, but it's important that they have that capability in the long term!  If you have any ideas, please help with that!  Assume that it is not a *planar* metropolis, but just a large metropolis on the face of Toril, like I linked to... Assume they do NOT have that huge gigantic list of feats in their specs for a damn Locate City Bomb, and they DO have a desire to not be hideously evil... Assume they DO want to survive retribution!

For builds I would say Art. 20 is clearly the best choice for that one. For the other it would either be druid 20 and abuse wildshape and AC buffs or druid 10/planar shep. 10 (assuming other Ebberon material is available) and they can destroy parts of the city on their own at a little higher level using planar bubble.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well... okay, Lets complicate (and clarify I guess?) this a bit more.  Make it a Planar Shepherd for the House of Nature (a FR plane).  How about that? Does that significantly change things?

[archangel.arcanis]

I don't know about that plane. What are some of the traits it has? I figured some kind of plane that deals damage like plane of fire or that could otherwise trash the buildings in the radius of the bubble. If your nature plane has some ability to make plants grow stupid fast you could use the bubble to basically overgrow every forge and such in a few minutes. The vines growing into the masonry should make the buildings pretty useless as they won't be too safe under their own weight.

[Gavinfoxx]

What I could figure of the HoN:

Chauntea, Eldath, Gwaeron, Lathander, Lurue, Meilikki, Nobanion, Shiallia, Silvanus, Ubtao, various animal lords, and many deities of nature creatures (like aarakocras, centaurs, etc.) are found in the House of Nature.  In the House of Nature, Druid spells are Enlarged and Extended.  Guardinals (such as Avoral, Cerdival, Equinal, Leonal, Lupinal, Musteval, and Ursinal) are native to here.  There are MANY more than just the Five Companions listed in the BoED.  Chauntea has the Great Mother's Guarden, Lathandar has Morninglory, Silvanus has the Deep Forest, Eldath has the True Grove, Meilikki has her Grove of the Unicorns, Shialla has the High Glade (adjacent to the Grove of Unicorns), Nobanion has the Pridelands with many of his Wemic petitioners, and Ubtao has the Labyrinth of Life, and in that, the Forbidden Plateau, with all sorts of dinosaurs.

[archangel.arcanis]

well the druid could use plant growth to overgrow the buildings. It shouldn't cause any harm to people and will be enlarged (can't be extended). While the game doesn't state that making plants grow in buildings will damage the buildings from history we know that plants growing into masonry and wood will compromise the building's structural integrity (so make sure your DM will go along with this). The range on plant growth is big so you could cover huge portions of the city with each casting as well. Though there must be some plants within the area to serve as a basis for the spell and it will undoubtedly take multiple castings to be effective.

[Aliment]

By level 3 or so your Artificer can make Eternal Wands of Explosive Runes.  Place these runes in hidden locations around the city, and blow them up with an intentionally failed dispel magic (also off an Eternal Wand) when you have enough to destroy whatever they're on.  That ought to do the trick.

JaronK

Me and a friend had a similar goal as a Sorceror Druid combo (many fewer options though).  We were just going to post them and let people read the "flyers".  The problem is any intelligent populace would stop reading them after they started blowing up.

Of course our enemy only had a 7th level wizard, and our main goal was to steal a warship.  I wanted to just smash it with warp wood, but the damn thing was magical.

So the solution was obvious:  as big of a Cloudkill as possible.  All the commoners in the area will simply die.  Its pretty big strike against their labor force, especially if you target the thick residential areas.