Gunmage - Can It Be Optimized?

[Flay Crimsonwind]

Gunmage. Read it? Great.

So, if you're going to play one, there's little reason I can see to continue in the class beyond the 3rd level, and only then would it be to get that bonus feat at 5th before going into a PrC with some spellcasting and an equal or better BAB. Which, frankly, shouldn't be hard.

But I'm not posting this for the easy way; what would anyone here consider one of the best ways to pimp out this class? What PrC would you aim for (oh stop, Flay, the humor is too much!)? There has to be a good semi-combat gish PrC that works with the admittedly limited spell-list on this kind of class.

What would you do? It doesn't look like there's much to focus on spell-school-wise. So how do you optimize this?

[telehax]

Looks like a job for spellwarp sniper, imo.

[Mixster]

Level 5 would also be good for the ability to deliver touch spells with your gun.

[Shadowhunter]

Some PrC that adds Shivering Touch or other kick-ass touch spells to his spell list perhaps...

Abjurant Champion is always a feasible filler.

[Amechra]

Well, there's always playing a Killoren Gunmage with Charm the Arrow to replace Dexterity with Charisma to hit on ranged attack.

TWF with a a pair of Magelock Pistols would be fun.

"Look ma, I'm Revolver Ocelot."

Sorry about that. Anyway, another neat feature is that, unlike your standard familiar, you can enchant your freakin' pistols with whatever you want; I suggest Slaying of some kind. Or just have Slaying bullets on hand for the kinds of things you'll be fighting.. And you have Haste. You know, to get off 7 shots in a round?

Divine Power, added with Arcane Disciple (War), to grab yourself another attack. Dip a level of Cleric for access to Spellflower (let's you store 2 touch spells for as long as the spell lasts.) and 2 Domains. I suggest Planning to facilitate DMM Persisting of Spellflower and Divine Power, and Spell, for thematic reasons/Anyspell/ Greater Anyspell. I also assume that a Gunmage of Mystra woould be loverly (add Anyspell and Greater Anyspell to your spell list? Don't mind if I do.)

This class actually looks like it would be crazy awesome to play in a setting with guns.

Anyway, top elaborate on my Spellflower trick, it means you could store 7~8 Touch spells on bullets and then fire them all off. In one round. 7~8 Shivering Touches will ruin anyone's day.

Alternatively, an Elan Gunmage with Elan Retention, a couple levels sunk into Wilder, Deep Impact, and that feat that allows you to regain Psionic Focus as a move action. Spending power points to make ranged touch attacks is nice.

I suggest Up the Walls to add awesome.

And of course, dip some Cragtop Archer. Seriously, being able to smack anyone from here to the horizon with a touch attack is awesome.

Iajatsu Focus would be hilarious with this class; it would make you a gunslinger, just like in the Old West, only you would be murderfying things with 9d6+ damage and touch spells.

Hey, let's see if we can build the Saint of Killing with this class.

In all seriousness though, I would put this guy down as a high tier 3.

[Shadowhunter]

The problem with a Gun Mage is not to achieve impressive rounds of spell-enhanced lead-and-gold-slinging.

It's the fact that it takes a full-round standard action to reload one pistol and a pistol only contains one shot.


Of course, unless I'm mistaken the 10th level in Gun Mage of Order of the Amethyst Rose" or somesuch allows you to reload easier.
It is in some number of No Quarter.


*goes checking*

NQ 6 have really good stuff when it comes to Gun Mages. New spells, a spell that auto-loads your pistols (which happen to be Personal range...) and other great stuff.

But it's not the one I was thinking of.

*Goes searching further*


+++EDIT+++

Ok, it wasn't impressive. As a full-round, attack a number of times as per your BAB allows on full attack. Need to have loaded guns and doesn't provide any amunition either.

So.

Arcane Loading
Transmutation
Level:Gun Mage 1
Components. V, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action.
Range: Personal
Duration: Concentration +1round/level.

This spell allows you to load your pistol without use of your hands. This spell does not produce ammunition, which must be on your person, and does not speed the time it takes to reload, but it does so without costing you any action to reload the weapon. Any checks to reload must still be made and reloading in melee still cause an attack of opportunity.
By casting this spell on a pistol, a gun mage could fire that pistol, then fire a different pistol the next round while the spell reloads the first pistol, and then fire the reloaded pistol the following round. This spell is generally cast on a single pistol before combat and the concentration maintained as long as possible.
Focus: an unloaded small arms weapon and ammunition.

Now the only problem will be to pack enough pistols to support all your attacks and somehow solving all the drawing and holstering movement.

[Amechra]

Alright, so Persist that spell.

And if you can get your DM to accept Pathfinder Material, there is that Everloaded enchantment for guns.

[SorO_Lost]

Epic lolz at the bonded part. Who ever wrote it is an idiot.

Try focusing on Spell Link. Per RAW Mirror Image is applied onto the pistol bypassing target requirements and logic.

So. Cast Necromantic Empowerment and poof, your gun has 8 int. Heck, throw on Bite of The Werebear and your gun can bite people.

Edit - To answer the lack of spell list problem. See UMD & Runestaffs.
The 6th level spell cap is annoying too, see Sublime Chord Makes Everything Better.

[bkdubs123]

Looks like a job for spellwarp sniper, imo.

I agree. The ability to warp stuff like Greater Dispel Magic as well as tack on 8d6 damage to it is nifty (6d6 from the rune-cast bullet, 2d6 from sudden raystrike). Add in some ability to expand that spell list and we've got an interesting threat on our hands.

Also, I'd say it isn't too much of a stretch that any feat that applies to reloading crossbows can apply to reloading pistols. In fact, aren't there crossbows that auto-reload so that you can full attack with them? Why not just apply the same rule to pistols? Or even create repeater pistols that have a chamber that can hold more than one bullet. The rules are already there you just have to modify them from crossbows to pistols.

[Smokey_the_bear]

Looks like a job for spellwarp sniper, imo.

I agree. The ability to warp stuff like Greater Dispel Magic as well as tack on 8d6 damage to it is nifty (6d6 from the rune-cast bullet, 2d6 from sudden raystrike). Add in some ability to expand that spell list and we've got an interesting threat on our hands.

Also, I'd say it isn't too much of a stretch that any feat that applies to reloading crossbows can apply to reloading pistols. In fact, aren't there crossbows that auto-reload so that you can full attack with them? Why not just apply the same rule to pistols? Or even create repeater pistols that have a chamber that can hold more than one bullet. The rules are already there you just have to modify them from crossbows to pistols.

I think it might have to do with the fact that reloading a pistol requires a Craft (small arms) check. There are feats and class abilities in IK that reduce reloading times for pistols/rifles by a single action (Full-round->standard, standard->move, move->free) that all stack with each other. Since there is already a specific feat for it, it would most likely be a no-go for applying crossbow rules to them. Especially since there are gun customizations in Locked and Loaded designed specifically to get multiple shots for full rounds. However, if you were just playing the class and there wasn't much else from IK being thrown around in a game, I suppose one could house rule it.

[bkdubs123]

Right, outside of IK, if you were just playing this in Eberron, or any generic D&D campaign setting, I feel like using "crossbow/pistols transparency" as a general rule would serve you well.

[Risada]

Looks like a job for spellwarp sniper, imo.

I agree. The ability to warp stuff like Greater Dispel Magic as well as tack on 8d6 damage to it is nifty (6d6 from the rune-cast bullet, 2d6 from sudden raystrike). Add in some ability to expand that spell list and we've got an interesting threat on our hands.

I don't know if the Gun Mage works that way.... from the way I read it, you can either use the rune-cast bullet, or you can channel a ray through your gun... not both...

[bkdubs123]

Where does it say you have to choose whether or not to do that? You channel a spell into your bullet via the Cast Rune Bullet feature. Normally, this just adds damage and a small attack bonus (if you're high enough level). Ah, I see how it works. Well, you can still channel a Greater Dispel Magic and deal bonus damage from the rune-cast bullet, but you'd have to burn another spell slot as a free action, which is pretty undesirable. Meh.

[Nanshork]

Gunmage specific PrCs found here.

[Smokey_the_bear]

Ok, it wasn't impressive. As a full-round, attack a number of times as per your BAB allows on full attack. Need to have loaded guns and doesn't provide any amunition either.

It's no biggie. Just make a gun with as many barrels as you have attacks. iirc you can have as many barrels as you can afford to buy. I can't remember the rules for it exactly. But in Locked and Loaded, there are a ton of gun customizations. One of them being adding extra barrels. You can either fire them one at a time using an attack action or fire them all at once using a full attack action.  But I'm not 100% certain. I'm away from the book right now.

EDIT: I just checked, it only gives an example of a double barreled BUT it doesn't say that you can't have more than two barrels. It just says that you add 150% to the cost of the gun to make it double barreled. It also says that it only takes a single attack to fire all of the barrels. So, by the cost breakdown of the book, we can just add 150% of the cost of the original gun for each barrel that you want to add. Now remember, it says the cost of the usual cost of the basic firearm. Which means you only have to pay a static amount per barrel.

EX: if a rifle cost 100gp, a double barrel would cost 250gp. Adding a third barrel would only cost another 150 gp and so on and so forth until you're satisfied.

[telehax]

Is there a cap to maximum number of barrels or are we now dealing with as many attacks in a round as you can afford?

[Smokey_the_bear]

Is there a cap to maximum number of barrels or are we now dealing with as many attacks in a round as you can afford?

It never explicitly gives a cap. It just says that double barreled guns are rare.

[Bauglir]

Is there a cap to maximum number of barrels or are we now dealing with as many attacks in a round as you can afford?

It never explicitly gives a cap. It just says that double barreled guns are rare.

I'm picturing something resembling a fractal minigun right now, minus rotation.

[Smokey_the_bear]

Is there a cap to maximum number of barrels or are we now dealing with as many attacks in a round as you can afford?

It never explicitly gives a cap. It just says that double barreled guns are rare.

I'm picturing something resembling a fractal minigun right now, minus rotation.

WHOA WHOA WHOA! I'm looking at the liber mechanika. Specifically page 55 where is talks about the Balanced Multi-Barreled customization. "each barrel added increases the weight of the weapon by 30% of the ORIGINAL weight and costs an additional 75% of the weapon's original cost". This is waaay better than the entry in Lock and Load

[SorO_Lost]

Also

1. Cast Shapechange and turn into a Hydra, share with gun.
2. Cleave Hydra-Gun's heads off.
3.
4. Profit!

Edit - Here character image btw.