Author Topic: Caster for a variant game  (Read 1802 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cavnar

  • Monkey bussiness
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Caster for a variant game
« on: October 15, 2010, 01:33:26 AM »
My DM is running a campaign with a lot of variant rules.  He is using the vitality/wound point system, so we have to worry about stray crits, and he is using the spell point system (both from Unearthed Arcana, btw).  He is also using the house rule mentioned in the book where energy damage bypasses spell resistance.

I need a 7th level caster.  We were originally supposed to have a caster and a rogue, so I rolled up a chain fighter lock build.  Once I got to the game, both the caster and rogue had decided to be fighters (one a swashbuckler, and the other a ranger heading toward some prestige class that required knowledge geography).  I don't want to make the fighters useless by blowing everything away.  I want to have the power if I need it, but I don't want to use it.  Frankly, I don't really know enough about casters to completely decide for myself, though.  I've only ever played a straight wizard a few times, and a necromancer once (which the DM [different DM] kept nerfing by finding reasons I couldn't raise the enemies).  So, what should I play?  The simpler and fewer prestige classes and such, the better, but I'll take a long list if it is laid out (including feats and spells, because I seem to make bad choices on my own) up to 20th level.  If a caster has ways to get criticals a good percentage of the time, that would be nice if I HAVE to go into combat.  By the same token, unless I can somehow be immune to critical hits, con is going to be very important.  (Heavy Fortification on a buckler will give me a big advantage, but is there anything better, and/or a way to get rid of the spell failure chance?)  I was thinking about battlefield control at one point.  Just using him to funnel the bad guys to the fighters, but it seems kinda boring.  I was also thinking about a debuffer/beguiler combination.  I have read (think I have read
?) about the beguilers being overpowered.  I don't have a problem with that, but I don't want my sole job in combat to be making everyone stop fighting in the first place.  That would take too much fun from the fighters.  So I was thinking I could use the debuff stuff in combat, and save the beguilement for out-of-combat encounters.  But I don't know if that combination can be made to work, or if there would be any room left over for offensive capability if something dropped both fighters.

If it matters for prestige selection, I am planning on playing lawful evil, simply because I haven't in a LONG time.  Oh, and it is set in Kingdoms of Kalamar, which I know nothing about, and is expected to be a mix of ocean and land based.  Also, any WOTC material (other than flaws or traits for some reason) is allowed, including dungeon/dragon articles.

juton

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 809
  • Jack of all trades, master of nothing.
    • Email
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2010, 04:04:52 AM »
Spellpoints give prepared casters all the advantages of being a spontaneous caster with none of the drawbacks. So in this case a Wizard is going to be even more superiour to something like a beguiler because the Wizard can change his spell list, but still cast spontaneously.

Mixster

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1642
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2010, 08:09:54 AM »
Transmuter 3/ Master Specialist 4 is a decent start.

It mainly depends on what spells you choose, so I suggest heading to the wizards handbook, or the A-list that is being made.

Not needing to prepare spells is even better for a wizard, than for just about anything else.

Another build you could opt for is the "master spellthief" build, but it only really takes up from level 12, and until then you'll lack 3-4 wizard levels behind IIRC.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2010, 11:52:04 AM »
If as a caster you want to hit crit use spell warp sniper as it will allow you to be pretty effective with rays and transform spells into rays. It also goes pretty well with master spellthief builds since you are required to get sneak attack for both. It isn't the most powerful build by any means but it really can be fun, and honestly looking at the party it won't be fun for the others if you go all out with a wizard.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2010, 12:00:09 PM »
While not directly some advice you might want, I cannot stress getting resistance or immunity to critical hits enough.  The wound point system is an absolute PC killer because of the sheer number of attacks they face over the campaign and how much more powerful said crits are.

For example, in Star Wars D20 where VP/WP is the norm, weapons don't have crit multipliers.  In D&D, however, any crit from a scythe is instant death for the poor sap who took it (8d4+6*Str mod is almost always greater than your Con score, and there are a ton more things that could add to that crit damage).
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 01:43:14 PM by snakeman830 »
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2010, 12:05:48 PM »
While not directly some advice you might want, I cannot stress getting resistance or immunity to critical hits enough.  The wound point system is an absolute PC killer because of the sheer number of attacks they face over the campaign and how much more powerfulsaid crits are.

For example, in Star Wars D20 where VP/WP is the norm, weapons don't have crit multipliers.  In D&D, however, any crit from a scythe is instant death for the poor sap who took it (8d4+6*Str mod is almost always greater than your Con score, and there are a ton more things that could add to that crit damage).
^^^In other words everyone needs to become undead or get fortified armor. Because well statistically your character's chance at survival is effectively 0 under this system, at least over any significant amount of time that involves combat.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Nunkuruji

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2010, 12:21:48 PM »
Quote
He is also using the house rule mentioned in the book where energy damage bypasses spell resistance

Evocation just got un-nerfed,  :lol

Sunic_Flames

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4782
  • The Crusader of Logic.
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 12:46:45 PM »
Quote
He is also using the house rule mentioned in the book where energy damage bypasses spell resistance

Evocation just got un-nerfed,  :lol

That's not enough to save it. It does make it suck less though.

You should convince your DM to ditch the VP/WP system. He's basically saying you have a 5% chance to die every time you are attacked. If he refuses, treat it as a joke game, because you'll be cycling through characters as if you were playing Tomb of Gygaxian Horrors.
Smiting Imbeciles since 1985.

If you hear this music, run.

And don't forget:


There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

Bozwevial

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 02:50:21 PM »
Yeah, WotC dropped VP/WP hard when they moved to Saga Edition, and for good reason. (Though the condition track is just as prone to abuse.)

Maat_Mons

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1041
  • What is a smile but a grimace of happiness?
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 03:19:23 PM »
Beguilers are not overpowered.  I don't doubt that you've read a claim that they are.  I once read a claim that soulknives are overpowered.  I thought the writer was being sarcastic at first, but he was serious. 

My preferred way of getting fortification is a gemstone of fortification, from Draconomicon, page 83.  It's a slotless item that you embed in your body with limited wish (cast by an NPC for 1,060 gp).  It costs 3,000 gp for light (25%) fortification, 15,000 gp for moderate (75%) fortification, and 35,000 gp for heavy (100%) fortification. 

Since you expressed interest in using a shield with an arcane caster: Mithral reduces arcane spell failure chance by 10%.  Githcraft is an armor and shield template from Dungeon masters guide II, page 276, that reduces arcane spell failure by 5%.  (Feycraft is similar.)  A thistledown suit, from Races of the wild, page 168, can be worn under any metal armor and reduces arcane spell failure by 5%.  You can use a heavy shield and chain shirt with no chance of arcane spell failure for 3,570 gp.

For example, in Star Wars D20 where VP/WP is the norm, weapons don't have crit multipliers.

An the same is true of D&D when vitality and would points are used.  As it says in the variant:
Quote
A critical hit deals the same amount of damage as a normal hit, but that damage is deducted from wound points rather than from vitality points. Critical hits do not deal extra damage; for that reason, no weapon in this system has a damage multiplier for its critical hits.

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2010, 03:33:53 PM »
For example, in Star Wars D20 where VP/WP is the norm, weapons don't have crit multipliers.

An the same is true of D&D when vitality and would points are used.  As it says in the variant:
Quote
A critical hit deals the same amount of damage as a normal hit, but that damage is deducted from wound points rather than from vitality points. Critical hits do not deal extra damage; for that reason, no weapon in this system has a damage multiplier for its critical hits.
So, they completely removed any reason to use a battleaxe?  A Longsword has double the chance to insta-kill and is otherwise the same.

Seriously, the VP/WP system is terrible for fun (and serious) games.  Do what you can to convince your DM to go with normal hp.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Maat_Mons

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1041
  • What is a smile but a grimace of happiness?
Re: Caster for a variant game
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2010, 04:05:32 PM »
Well, I just didn't quote the other part:
Quote

A battle axe performs the same as a longsword and a scythe performs the same as a falchion.