Author Topic: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)  (Read 2250 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

RealMarkP

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« on: October 04, 2010, 01:41:44 AM »
We had a player quit that played a Gunslinger. My brother, who is new to D&D, inherited this character as a place to start. The problem is that he is doing an embarrassing amount of damage for his level (currently at level 7, averaging 4-8 damage per round). His stats are a bit low, but that can be remedied by magic items. The DM made an interesting list of weapons he can craft but seeing how we were in a dungeon for almost 3 levels, he has not had the time to craft. These are based off his knowledge and crafting skills, so they don't need to be maxed.

So anyway, that's the story. Being new to D&D he has asked me to help him choose a progression. I'm not all that sure how to help him, and in which way. The only thing that comes to mind was following a ranger-style progression dictated in the handbooks. However, those builds are geared towards a bow/crossbow build. Many of the suggested bow/suvivalist feats don't apply. He wants to be able to match the damage turned out by my character and our resident VoP/Saint monk.

Current stats:
Race: Human
ECL: Gunslinger 6 (has not chosen level 7 progression yet)
Str: 8
Dex: 16
Con: 11
Int: 13
Wis: 11
Cha: 14
Feats: Quick Draw, Rapid Reload

Any help would be appreciated in maxing this class.

EDIT: Being a character that knows about gunpowder and alchemy, one direction we though of was to become a 'demolitions expert', which deals mainly with explosives (ie, to blow up doors, enemies, etc). Any suggestions on how this might work?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 01:49:09 AM by RealMarkP »

Sinfire Titan

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5697
  • You've got one round to give a rat's ass.
    • Email
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2010, 01:56:15 AM »
"Embarrassing" is right! FYI, he's missing a pair of feats )1st level, Human bonus, 3rd level, and 6th level, so there should be 4 of them).

The problem is that Guns are not standard for DnD, thus any Feats and PrCs must be adapted.

Have him multiclass into Swordsage, focusing on Shadow Hand (for Assassin's Stance). Any other form of Sneak Attack he can get will help. Alternatively, dip Incarnate (CN) and shape the Sighting Gloves for a +1-+5 bonus to damage rolls (it could be higher, but just a 2-level dip nets a scaling +5).

The other option is to get a Dragonfire Bard, but from my experience people don't like any form of Bard (until they see a Dragonfire one, after which they never want a party to lack one).


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Bozwevial

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2010, 02:01:07 AM »
And you know what goes well with Swordsage and guns? Black Rain.

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 02:28:08 AM »
Step 1: Attach bayonets to Duct-tape knives to your guns.
Step 2: Convince the DM that this qualifies your guns as "melee weapons"
Step 3: Dip 1 level of factotum, and put all your skill points into iaijutsu focus.

With a focus katana strapped to your back, 7 skill points, a masterwork tool and your charisma, you'll end up with a +15 bonus to checks - enough to add 2d6 to 6d6 points of damage to all attacks against anyone you catch flatfooted.  How to get them flatfooted?  Throw oil grenades to make the surfaces slick (and therefore force balance checks).
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

RealMarkP

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 09:58:37 AM »
Quote
FYI, he's missing a pair of feats
Yeah, I know, I couldn't remember them off the top of my head (I don't have his sheet here).

Quote
And you know what goes well with Swordsage and guns? Black Rain.
Could you give me a sample build?


Could we do the factotum dip without the duct-tape-knives-to-gun requirement. He is still a ranged combatant.

How to get them flatfooted?

Check out the 'Death at high noon' ability from this class. On a successful bluff, you catch him flat footed.


EDIT: My DM is fairly flexible, so homebrew PrCs and feat suggestions are welcome. I ran across This little PrC. Comments?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 10:03:57 AM by RealMarkP »

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 02:21:41 PM »
Well, the general idea with the ducttaping knives was to give the DM a handwave for why you're able to get bonus damage from iaijutsu focus on your bullets.  If your guns count as melee weapons, then technically they trigger it whenever you draw them.

I'd recommend getting several pairs of guns, and drop them and draw new ones after every round of combat (just like in The Matrix).
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Bozwevial

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 05:17:36 PM »
That PrC would require you to, at the very least, dip a spellcasting class, blow feats on Point Blank Shot, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Practiced Spellcaster (the last one can be skipped, if you want to spend four more levels on that casting class). It offers full casting, yeah, but you've already lost six caster levels already.

As for the Swordsage build, it's mostly maneuver selection. Pick up some stuff from Black Rain for damage, add in some Shadow Hand for movement and Assassin's Stance, and you should be golden.

Honestly, I'd see if the DM is amenable to him retraining into a pure Swordsage. The base class you linked isn't that great, to be honest--it's basically the Fighter without bonus feats, but you get:

Two Weapon Fighting (which you would have taken anyway),

Quick Draw (which could easily be replicated with a Least Crystal of Return for 300 gp),

Rapid Reload (and depending on the gun rules, this is needlessly painful),

A bonus on called shots/sneak attack damage that's too little too late,

Swift Reflexes (which is Uncanny Dodge's less attractive sister),

Eagle Eye (which doesn't even make sense as written--it sounds like it's talking about threat range, but then the example makes it into some range increment thing),

Reloader Shot (seriously, anyone who ever writes a gun class ever seems to hate firearms, because they always have a marginally higher base damage but take the rest of the combat to reload),

and Leadership with doubled followers (and sadly, your cohort has the very real potential to be stronger than you).

Um, no thanks. Just go pure Swordsage, see if the DM will let your friend swap his mental stats to Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 13 (you actually gain skill points this way), focus your maneuver selections on Black Rain, Shadow Hand, and the like, and you should be fine.

Widow

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2010, 06:46:38 PM »
I have to say it, Gnomish Artificer from Magic of Faerun (humans can enter the class too).  The class crafts mundane items that copy spell effects without being magical.  The gunslinger really needs a fireball gun, that would be just perfect theme wise.

Gunslinger 8/Duskblade 2/Gnomish Artificer 10.

Not the overly powerful, but very fitting.

RealMarkP

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2010, 03:42:06 PM »
I'd see if the DM is amenable to him retraining into a pure Swordsage.

Well, my brother is in a unique position. Either he keeps this character and somehow massages a decent combatant out of him, or he rerolls a new character. The previous owner of this character was great at role playing and did well in out-of-combat situations. However, the lack of skills and the like also made him very limiting.

The one thing that this guy has going for him is the fact that he creates his own guns. That in itself is up to the player to think of really cool ideas and the DM to approve. For example, from the list of guns that this character can create, there is a revolver (reload once per 6 shots) and a shotgun. I'm talking to the DM about creating explosives as well. Who needs a knock spell when you can strap some explosives to a door and blow it smithereens. Again, this is an unexplored area of D&D. If you guys have any good ideas with regards to the types of explosives that can be made or even a class that specializes in explosives, it might make this class bearable.

I'll take a look at both the Artificer build and the Swordsage. So far, the Artificer route seems cool.

Flay Crimsonwind

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1310
  • Watching the World Burn in Magnificence
    • Email
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 03:45:43 AM »
And you know what goes well with Swordsage and guns? Black Rain.
I have had an absolute hard-on to play that class, and never gotten a chance to. Make a swordsage with that class and some unarmed feats, make him roguish, call him Spike.... it's all coming together...

Bozwevial

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 04:02:31 AM »
And you know what goes well with Swordsage and guns? Black Rain.
I have had an absolute hard-on to play that class, and never gotten a chance to. Make a swordsage with that class and some unarmed feats, make him roguish, call him Spike.... it's all coming together...
Give him ranks in Pilot... ;)

Flay Crimsonwind

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1310
  • Watching the World Burn in Magnificence
    • Email
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2010, 07:48:18 AM »
And you know what goes well with Swordsage and guns? Black Rain.
I have had an absolute hard-on to play that class, and never gotten a chance to. Make a swordsage with that class and some unarmed feats, make him roguish, call him Spike.... it's all coming together...
Give him ranks in Pilot... ;)
Artificer/Effigy Master friend makes him an Effigy of a Roc or something... or a huge swordfish with a flight enhancement.... god I need to make this happen...

RealMarkP

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
Re: Gunslinger custom class (need help with this one)
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2010, 09:14:59 PM »
Thanks for the help guys. With a little bit of booze, I convinced my DM to merge the gunslinger and the Black Rain classes. We used the maneuver progression from the Warblade class. It may end up being a decent class after all.