Author Topic: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?  (Read 2560 times)

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Azoriel

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Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« on: October 02, 2010, 07:19:56 AM »
I've been pouring over my resources, and I don't see any way for an epic level psychic warrior to get the psionic equivalent of Epic Spellcasting, short of starting over in some other manifesting or spellcasting class (and then getting access completely independent of their psychic warrior levels).  Would I be right in assuming that's not an option for these guys? 

betrayor

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 11:32:58 AM »
I've been pouring over my resources, and I don't see any way for an epic level psychic warrior to get the psionic equivalent of Epic Spellcasting, short of starting over in some other manifesting or spellcasting class (and then getting access completely independent of their psychic warrior levels).  Would I be right in assuming that's not an option for these guys? 

You can get access with Psychic warrior to Epic Manifesting...
As described in ELH you can take the psionic equielevant of improved spell capacity 3 times which will let you cast 9 level powers....
After that you can take the Epic manifesting normally....

Clennan

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 12:16:47 PM »
The Epic Level Handbook is 3.0, though, isn't it?

betrayor

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 12:40:34 PM »
Well yes,but anything 3.0 that was not updated or specifically outlawed is still legal....


BeholderSlayer

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 01:02:02 PM »
The Epic Level Handbook is 3.0, though, isn't it?
Yes, but the ELH does have a 3.5 update handbook.
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Azoriel

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 02:40:18 PM »
You can get access with Psychic warrior to Epic Manifesting...
As described in ELH you can take the psionic equielevant of improved spell capacity 3 times which will let you cast 9 level powers....
After that you can take the Epic manifesting normally....

The problem with this is that the psionic equivalent of Improved Spell Capacity is Improved Manifestation, which doesn't give you another power, just extra power points. 

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedManifestation

So it doesn't get you any closer to qualifying for Epic Manifestation.  =(

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/psionicPowers.htm

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 02:41:35 PM »
Take the Mantled Warrior variant, and get your manifester level as high as you can get it.

Might help.
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betrayor

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2010, 02:52:57 PM »
You can get access with Psychic warrior to Epic Manifesting...
As described in ELH you can take the psionic equielevant of improved spell capacity 3 times which will let you cast 9 level powers....
After that you can take the Epic manifesting normally....

The problem with this is that the psionic equivalent of Improved Spell Capacity is Improved Manifestation, which doesn't give you another power, just extra power points. 

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedManifestation

So it doesn't get you any closer to qualifying for Epic Manifestation.  =(

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/psionicPowers.htm

Well,yes but it would be logical to allow an epic feat that gives you access to a level of power +1 than you can currently cast......

Azoriel

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2010, 02:58:22 PM »
Take the Mantled Warrior variant, and get your manifester level as high as you can get it.

Might help.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a
Mantled Warrior

You have unlocked access to a single psionic mantle.
Level: 2nd, and see below.
Replaces: You lose your bonus feat at 2nd level.
Benefit: You must choose a mantle by 2nd level. In place of your 2nd-level feat, you gain your chosen mantle's granted ability. You also have access to the powers in your chosen mantle, but are not required to take any of them.


Definitely closer...  Though, as far as I can tell, no existing psionic feats will actually let you learn those higher level powers.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#powerKnowledge
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicExpandedKnowledge

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2010, 05:18:56 PM »
{ ... insert reaches into the dark storage of my kitty avatar's deep history smiley face ... }

hmm

My impression was 3 Improved Spell Capacity (converted) feats,
would get the PsyWar to 9s, but without the actual 1 power in needs.

Then the Epic Expanded Knowledge feat would supply that 1 power.
And that's where it sat for about 4 years.

The official "chance" at conversions, always causes a problem.
I'd guess the Extra Slot feat and proper scaling, is what Improved Manifestation is closest to.

Mind's Eye update as noted by Lyca and Azoriel, would give access
to 1 (or 2) powers from the Mantle. It costs the earlier 2nd level feat slot.
But it gives the possibility of the 7th and 8th level power slot(s).

So that's 4 Epic feats getting any 1 power ; or 1 class sub + 3 Epic Feats getting 1, 2, 3, or maybe even 4 mantle powers.

There's no way for a PsyWar to get the "SEED within primary discipline" discount.
But that's not really a problem ... (evil grin).


Azoriel

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 12:03:42 AM »
Well,yes but it would be logical to allow an epic feat that gives you access to a level of power +1 than you can currently cast......

Indeed - a very reasonable suggestion.

It would seem, the way everyone's leaning towards, the only way to attack this problem is an in-house conversion.  My own idea would be to edit Epic Manifestation (which works, since they don't actually bother to write out the feat's text):

Quote
Psionic characters take the Epic Manifestation feat, which works just like the Epic Spellcasting feat. The prerequisites for this feat are 24 ranks of Psicraft, 24 ranks of Knowledge (psionics), and the ability to manifest 9th-level psionic powers. Alternatively, if a character doesn't have access to 9th level powers, they could still qualify by taking Improved Manifestation once for every power level they are short of the requirement.  (Ex: a character with 10 or more levels in Warmind would need to take Improved Manifestation four times before they qualified for Epic Manifestation).
  (Italic text is mine.)

Workable?


betrayor

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2010, 12:07:39 AM »
Well,yes but it would be logical to allow an epic feat that gives you access to a level of power +1 than you can currently cast......

Indeed - a very reasonable suggestion.

It would seem, the way everyone's leaning towards, the only way to attack this problem is an in-house conversion.  My own idea would be to edit Epic Manifestation (which works, since they don't actually bother to write out the feat's text):

Quote
Psionic characters take the Epic Manifestation feat, which works just like the Epic Spellcasting feat. The prerequisites for this feat are 24 ranks of Psicraft, 24 ranks of Knowledge (psionics), and the ability to manifest 9th-level psionic powers. Alternatively, if a character doesn't have access to 9th level powers, they could still qualify by taking Improved Manifestation once for every power level they are short of the requirement.  (Ex: a character with 10 or more levels in Warmind would need to take Improved Manifestation four times before they qualified for Epic Manifestation).
 (Italic text is mine.)

Workable?



I think it is fine....

snakeman830

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2010, 12:46:46 PM »
Alternatively, have it work like all of the other epic psionic feats and simply require "the maximum level of powers your class can access"
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betrayor

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2010, 01:09:54 PM »
Alternatively, have it work like all of the other epic psionic feats and simply require "the maximum level of powers your class can access"

The problem with what you are suggesting is balance(lol balance in epic levels) between Psionic and magic classes....
For example a Bard need to  take three epic feat before taking Epic spellcasting,so Psychic warrior should need three feats too before taking Epic Manifesting....

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2010, 05:10:23 PM »
Really, if you juggle things right, you can make a psychic warrior with pre-epic powers that can kick plenty of ass in epic play. Just make sure you multiclass and increase your power pool with a secondary manifesting class (egoist is great for a psywar) and then PrC ASAP.

Seriously, psychic warrior powers can see plenty of play in epic, but researching augments to their powers can certainly give psywars a rather massive boost.
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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2010, 05:37:05 PM »
Psionic characters take the Epic Manifestation feat, which works just like the Epic Spellcasting feat. The prerequisites for this feat are 24 ranks of Psicraft, 24 ranks of Knowledge (psionics), and the ability to manifest 9th-level psionic powers. Alternatively, if a character doesn't have access to 9th level powers, they could still qualify by taking Improved Manifestation once for every power level they are short of the requirement.  (Ex: a character with 10 or more levels in Warmind would need to take Improved Manifestation four times before they qualified for Epic Manifestation).
 (Italic text is mine.)
I think it is fine....
[/quote]
2nd.


PsyWar + Mantled + Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle once at the Heavy Armor feat you never use + One 21st level encounter exp + the Two feats a PsyWar gets at level 21 = Mission Accomplished

(hey where'd the party Wizard and Cleric go ?? )

betrayor

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2010, 05:40:06 PM »
Psionic characters take the Epic Manifestation feat, which works just like the Epic Spellcasting feat. The prerequisites for this feat are 24 ranks of Psicraft, 24 ranks of Knowledge (psionics), and the ability to manifest 9th-level psionic powers. Alternatively, if a character doesn't have access to 9th level powers, they could still qualify by taking Improved Manifestation once for every power level they are short of the requirement.  (Ex: a character with 10 or more levels in Warmind would need to take Improved Manifestation four times before they qualified for Epic Manifestation).
 (Italic text is mine.)
I think it is fine....
2nd.


PsyWar + Mantled + Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle once at the Heavy Armor feat you never use + One 21st level encounter exp + the Two feats a PsyWar gets at level 21 = Mission Accomplished

(hey where'd the party Wizard and Cleric go ?? )

[/quote]

First isn't the DCFS considered cheese?
And second I thought it didn't work with epic feats......

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2010, 05:50:45 PM »
DCFS is cheese of course, but raw legal.

I guess I assumed it would work with Epic feats, and even upgrading them.
There is (or was) something about the Chaos part being "now" instead of "then" time wise.
So the normal feat qualifying could be updated.
But it's an iirc situation. I might be wrong. I am hazy. Bad me.
I was paying more attention to Pazuzu and the Hive, with that book. (wink)

The real point, is how much harder a PsyWar has to work to get to Epic Spells.
Heck, a Divine Mind can get Epic Spells feat by level 30 ... not that it'll make it.
PsyWar gets two epic feats at level 21, something no other class gets.

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Re: Epic Psychic Warriors =/= Eventual Access to Epic Seeds?
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2010, 08:03:18 PM »
epic needs reworking anyhow. i think mirroring the magic system where there is not an equivalent in psionics would be the simplest.
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