Author Topic: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?  (Read 6395 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« on: September 29, 2010, 01:14:55 AM »
OK, everyone knows that sharns are awesome.  They're so great at doing everything, let's have a contest to see who can make the worst possible sharn.  

Rules:

ECL must be 20.  EDIT: This, of course, means you only have 11 levels to play with.
Race must be an untemplated Sharn.
32 point buy will be used.
Up to 2 flaws and 2 traits.

The badness of your build will be judged based upon community consensus.  This isn't overly official or anything.

Note: to be unoptimized, the sharn has to fare significantly worse than a human single classed non-caster character in the area of their specialty.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 01:33:13 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Benly

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2010, 01:25:46 AM »
I recommend starting with Forsaker.

Solo

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2010, 01:27:20 AM »
Monk 20

Feats: Skill Focus: UMD, Magical Aptitude, Athletic, Awareness, Iron Will, Lightening Reflexes, Great Fortitude


"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Bozwevial

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2010, 01:36:34 AM »
Lightning Warrior 11, with no familiar feats.

Edit: After having hit yourself with Greater Bestow Curse.

Talore

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2010, 01:43:37 AM »
Monk 20

Feats: Skill Focus: UMD, Magical Aptitude, Athletic, Awareness, Iron Will, Lightening Reflexes, Great Fortitude


You mean Monk 11... I still think Sharn is better, what with 12 natural attacks... hell, Sharns EAT monks.
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Solo

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2010, 01:46:22 AM »
Monk 20

Feats: Skill Focus: UMD, Magical Aptitude, Athletic, Awareness, Iron Will, Lightening Reflexes, Great Fortitude
You mean Monk 11... I still think Sharn is better, what with 12 natural attacks... hell, Sharns EAT monks.
The build is so bad that it does not follow the rules of the contest.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2010, 01:50:00 AM »
Yeah, with SR, regeneration, flight, and nonlinear reach, I'm pretty sure the sharn can actually reach most casters.  Low level castings can deal with a significant number of preparations (A single AoE spell takes down all your mirror images, for example).  The immunity to a significant portion of offensive spells, such as baleful polymorph and disintegrate, high saves, SR, evasion, and regeneration should be enough to defend against a significant arsenal.  Big class lists = good at umd

So, caster-killer?  Maybe, actually, so long as they don't optimize too badly.
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X-Codes

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2010, 02:12:03 AM »
The problem with Forsaker is that the Sharn can still willingly ditch the Forsaker's abilities and cast their spells.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2010, 02:15:49 AM »
The problem with Forsaker is that the Sharn can still willingly ditch the Forsaker's abilities and cast their spells.
Plus, supernatural transformation.
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AlcariTheMad

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2010, 02:32:10 AM »
Focused Transmuter 7/Master Transmorgrifist 4

Forbid Abjuration, Conjuration, and Evocation.

Choose only Transmutation [polymorph] spells when possible.

Feats:
Flaw <something>
Eschew Materials
1st Blind-Fight
3rd any
6th any
9th Mage Slayer
retrain 3rd Pierce Magical Concealment
retrain 6th Pierce Magical Protection

-12 CL to all spells and spell like abilities, and your class levels are all devoted to an ability you are racially immune to.
edit: forgot eschew materials for the PrC
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 02:37:13 AM by AlcariTheMad »

Endarire

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2010, 02:37:07 AM »
Sharn Commoner11

Spend all your feats on the Mage Slayer line and Skill Focus: Skill You'll Never Use.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

AlcariTheMad

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2010, 02:38:12 AM »
Sharn Commoner11

Spend all your feats on the Mage Slayer line and Skill Focus: Skill You'll Never Use.

I'd much rather be a Sharn commoner than a Human commoner, even with those feats.

Toptomcat

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2010, 04:12:45 AM »
There's always a Sandwich Psion build, though that may not count since you technically aren't a Sharn anymore.

Benly

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2010, 05:38:40 AM »
We're comparing the sharn to a same-ECL human with an approximately equivalent build, right?

You could make a case for a Sharn Wizard 11 being worse than a Human Wizard 20 because, while the sharn has two casting progressions, neither of them gets seventh- through ninth-level spells and the human does.

(note: I don't have sharn statistics handy, so this is from my approximate memory of their deal.)

Edit: Herpaderp, OP specifies non-caster builds, i r a smrat guy.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2010, 05:54:06 AM »
Yeah, I figured ninth level spells were a bit impossible to compare with.
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JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2010, 06:56:37 AM »
Sharn(4HD)+5LA, Whatever 11,  keep your alignment CN, fight with a quiver full of lawful arrows as an improvised weapon,   take a negative level for each arrow

if you have enough lawful arrows(15), die and have fun sucking as a wight with none of your previous abilities

From K's Revised Necromancer Handbook:
[spoiler]"Hand People Unholy Arrows
Unholy Arrows are very modestly priced. They cost about 361 GP each. And any Good aligned character takes an actual negative level if they hold it in their hand. A character can wield however many arrows happen to be in their quiver, so they can potentially get a lot of negative levels. Any character with negative levels equal to their hit dice dies and rises as a Wight, and the arrows are not consumed in the process. Repeat with Holy, Lawful, or Chaotic arrows as desired."[/spoiler]

now Wights are lawful evil, so get rid of those lawful arrows and get the 3 "good" arrows out of your backpack, now use them in a quiver as an improvised weapon
now you get the tasty "bonuses" from 3 additional negative levels
-3 on all skill checks and ability checks
-3 on all attack rolls and saving throws
-15 hit points
-3 "effective" levels(for purposes of HD etc...)

was worried about it not being a humanoid but to quote from the DMG 3.5
[spoiler]"A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain.  Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind.  If not, she rises as a wight."[/spoiler]
Edit:
[spoiler]use a locked gauntlet so you can't drop your FOUR good arrows in your improvised-weapon-quiver.
Now as soon as you rise as a wight, you are instantly slain and rise the next night as a wight.

Keep doing this forever or until someone steals your quiver, even then, your still just a wight. [/spoiler]
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 07:04:54 AM by JohnnyMayHymn »
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Saxony

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2010, 07:04:46 AM »
Edit: Misremembered Undead type.
Can Wights take negative levels, temporary or otherwise?

They're Undead.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 12:26:05 PM by Saxony »
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fallen-angle

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2010, 07:46:08 AM »
Hows this:

Redeemed Greenstar Adept 10/Sacred Exorcist 1/ Deadgrim 5/Foresaker 1

Feats form levels: Combat Casting, Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Run

Retrained Feats: Willing Deformity, Deformity [Obese], Sacred Vow, Vow of Obediance, Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace.

Total he loses:
-All Casting, and all divine spells (even if he does forsake being a foresaker)
-His constitution modifier and the ability to heal by any means. (other than his natural repair rate)
-Total of -5 dexterity.
-Loses several feats if he tries to fight at all.
-Can be turned as though he was undead (without any of the benefits of being undead)

Problems:
-Gains fortification 75%.
-Can still use portals, evasion, and is still immune to mind effect and polymorph.
-+10 to CL from greenstart adept.
-Okay vs the Undead
-Admirably large bonuses to Intimidate.

Objectives:
-Somehow get him under a compulsion to obey his all his vows (including being a foresaker)
-Get him permanently dimentionally locked. (so he can't use those portals)
-Continue to reduce physical and mental stats.

Final Results: Under 100 hp. Cannot use magic. Cannot fight. No Constitution Score. Subject to turning by clerics.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 07:53:17 AM by fallen-angle »
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McPoyo

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2010, 12:21:01 PM »
Can Wights take negative levels, temporary or otherwise?

They're Undead.
Undead aren't immune to negative levels, just Energy Drain. The number of sources that grant negative levels from non-energy drain sources are pretty much limited to the Holy/Unholy/Axiomatic/Chaotic enchantments and items that mimic those.
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They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

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Saxony

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Re: Unoptimization: Can you ruin the sharn?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2010, 12:25:22 PM »
Can Wights take negative levels, temporary or otherwise?

They're Undead.
Undead aren't immune to negative levels, just Energy Drain. The number of sources that grant negative levels from non-energy drain sources are pretty much limited to the Holy/Unholy/Axiomatic/Chaotic enchantments and items that mimic those.
Ah, my bad.
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