Author Topic: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)  (Read 5158 times)

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KellKheraptis

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The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« on: September 28, 2010, 12:54:36 PM »
DISCLAIMER: This build will be utterly broken beyond all belief and should never see play in even an overpowered game.  This is also a new take on the use of the hideous combination of Red Wizard Circle Magic and Shadowcraft Simulacrums.  Finally, it uses a custom Major Bloodline (mainly as a feat repository, since I'm lazy and we all know how to get infinite ones of those anyhow) paid for by an Item Familiar (a la PBMC's thread and the math lining up) and mild retraining.  The build :

Cloistered Cleric of Mystra 1/Wizard 1/Tainted Sorcerer 1/Red Wizard 5/Incantatrix 4/Shadowcraft Mage 4/Dweomerkeeper 4

-Assuming 32 pt buy (though little changes in 25 pt buy).
-All stats will bear an inherent +5 bonus, due to Supernatural Spell.
-Any [Epic] material is gained via the Dusk Giant trick, including a mythal that remains after dismissing the Dusk Giant form.  Since it is a Supernatural Spell, it is not subject to dispelling of any kind.
-Prewarning : CL is arbitrarily high, as are spell slots per day, thanks to Cooperative Metamagic and an arbitrarily large number of 230% real Sims of the wizard, meaning each one can effectively cast epic spells of their own.  As they will all be incorporeal, they may all occupy the same space, namely that of the initial Wizard, and since they are Sims, not summons/HIVE members/Symbiots/Psymbiots, they are absolutely loyal to their creator.
-With 0 action loops, the RWfH has an arbitrary number of actions, contingencies, and crafted contingencies.
-With one prevalent power and one vanguard power within the mythal, this arbitrarily large number of archmagi may act effectively infinitely, both within and without time (affinity field and synchronicity shuffle).
-All of the above is effectively doubled through the affinity field by using Nybor's trick to implant the Red Wizard into a Chronotyryn.
-Last but not least, the effect of Cooperative Metamagic (should they all cast simultanously) is doubled, as they get roughly the same effect (CL boost) from a prevalent metaconcert linking all minds together.

NOTE : Still fully verifying the interaction between magic and psionics, and actually fleshing out the minute details of the build and mythal.  Very much still UNDER CONSTRUCTION, but there's the basics of the beast :D
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KellKheraptis

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2010, 12:55:36 PM »
Reserved, most likely for the mythal itself and suites of spells/combos in use.
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2010, 01:05:29 PM »
How are you picking up 230% real sims? Also, does this assume that 230% real sims would have 130% of the original spellcaster's power (CL, HD, etc)?
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KellKheraptis

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 01:07:07 PM »
How are you picking up 230% real sims? Also, does this assume that 230% real sims would have 130% of the original spellcaster's power (CL, HD, etc)?

Circle Magic+Earth Spell+Sanctum Spell+Snowcasting=23rd level slots, and yes.
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 01:10:28 PM »
How are you picking up 230% real sims? Also, does this assume that 230% real sims would have 130% of the original spellcaster's power (CL, HD, etc)?

Circle Magic+Earth Spell+Sanctum Spell+Snowcasting=23rd level slots, and yes.
I figured those were the feats, but how are you getting Shadow Illusion to affect Simulacrum, which isn't a figment?
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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 01:13:29 PM »
How are you picking up 230% real sims? Also, does this assume that 230% real sims would have 130% of the original spellcaster's power (CL, HD, etc)?

Circle Magic+Earth Spell+Sanctum Spell+Snowcasting=23rd level slots, and yes.
I figured those were the feats, but how are you getting Shadow Illusion to affect Simulacrum, which isn't a figment?
Yeah, without some trickery to change the school to conjuration first, I don't see how that could possibly work.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9365.msg321341#msg321341
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 01:24:06 PM »
Also, even if you could emulate simulacrum, I think that's going pretty far into RAI to say that 230% real sims gain any actual HD, which is tied to spellcasting ability. I can see it being arguable that they have 230% their normal hit points, but not spellcasting ability. It's like the sims are from the future, or something.  :o

I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade, I'm just always interested by your builds, Kell, and would like to make sure it works.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 01:26:45 PM »
How are you picking up 230% real sims? Also, does this assume that 230% real sims would have 130% of the original spellcaster's power (CL, HD, etc)?

Circle Magic+Earth Spell+Sanctum Spell+Snowcasting=23rd level slots, and yes.
I figured those were the feats, but how are you getting Shadow Illusion to affect Simulacrum, which isn't a figment?
Yeah, without some trickery to change the school to conjuration first, I don't see how that could possibly work.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9365.msg321341#msg321341

Well, the extra reality is ironclad, since at this point with all 23rd level slots, everything is a Shadow Miracle ;)  Which most definitely does gain the goodness that is Shadow Illusion.  And ultimately, it's only because I was trying to refrain from emulating Ice Assassin.  That one gets my spellcasting with 0 issues.
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 01:29:57 PM »
How are you picking up 230% real sims? Also, does this assume that 230% real sims would have 130% of the original spellcaster's power (CL, HD, etc)?

Circle Magic+Earth Spell+Sanctum Spell+Snowcasting=23rd level slots, and yes.
I figured those were the feats, but how are you getting Shadow Illusion to affect Simulacrum, which isn't a figment?
Yeah, without some trickery to change the school to conjuration first, I don't see how that could possibly work.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9365.msg321341#msg321341

Well, the extra reality is ironclad, since at this point with all 23rd level slots, everything is a Shadow Miracle ;)  Which most definitely does gain the goodness that is Shadow Illusion.  And ultimately, it's only because I was trying to refrain from emulating Ice Assassin.  That one gets my spellcasting with 0 issues.
Well, if you're going "Official" ZOMGZORZ broken-pasta, you might as well just use Ice Assassin.  :P

Edit: bah, Miracles can't emulate Ice Assassin, unless I'm missing something....
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KellKheraptis

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 01:36:59 PM »
It doesn't need to.  It'll "only" have whatever epic spells I cram into the mythal, and I can make them at will basically (NI spell slots+1/round Supernatural Spell), an arbitrarily large number of times.
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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 01:39:36 PM »
How are you picking up 230% real sims? Also, does this assume that 230% real sims would have 130% of the original spellcaster's power (CL, HD, etc)?

Circle Magic+Earth Spell+Sanctum Spell+Snowcasting=23rd level slots, and yes.
I figured those were the feats, but how are you getting Shadow Illusion to affect Simulacrum, which isn't a figment?
Yeah, without some trickery to change the school to conjuration first, I don't see how that could possibly work.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9365.msg321341#msg321341

Well, the extra reality is ironclad, since at this point with all 23rd level slots, everything is a Shadow Miracle ;)  Which most definitely does gain the goodness that is Shadow Illusion.  And ultimately, it's only because I was trying to refrain from emulating Ice Assassin.  That one gets my spellcasting with 0 issues.
Yeah... I guess a Shadow Miracle emulating a Simulacrum would definitely be 230% real. I don't know that it would boost your spellcasting, though, as BeholderSlayer says. I've seen people argue basically the exact opposite about normal Simulacrums (despite having reduced hit dice, they still get all of their racial spellcasting abilities).

Since you're ignoring material components (because this is a Shadow Miracle), you can create a simulacrum of anything you want, though, without a piece of it to start with. So it doesn't have to be of the original caster at all. It could be a simulacrum of a great wyrm dragon... or the original caster Fused with a great wyrm red dragon, or something even more insane. It would have all of his abilities plus the spellcasting of the dragon, and you could argue that it loses draconic hit dice rather than class levels, to fulfill the 50% reduction requirement.

Or you could use the Dusk Giant trick to gain a bunch of hit dice before making the simulacrum, and lose those, since they were definitely gained last.
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...thanks
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 01:43:30 PM »
Dusk Giant = WTF  :banghead
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KellKheraptis

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2010, 01:43:55 PM »
I was actually entertaining that notion, on the basis of NI % damage reduction through the affinity field, though that particular aspect is rendered moot from the mythal itself.

EDIT : Yeah, Dusk Giants are bad...

Oh, and something of note : the RWfH can march right up to any creature, regardless of it's protections, and smack it around.  Mythals are not suppressed in an AMF, and this one cannot be disjoined or dispelled in any way.  Furthermore, my pseudohive is not a collective of weakling individuals, but rather a carbon copy of me, whilst still being naught but a handful of nonexistent ice and shadowstuff, a construct, a tool.  And they each have access to the mythal, or one of their own (i.e. they are just as untouchable and impudent).
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 01:49:04 PM by KellKheraptis »
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Archmage Joda

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2010, 01:47:56 PM »
Pardon my ignorance, but how are all the simulacra incorporeal?
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KellKheraptis

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2010, 01:50:37 PM »
Pardon my ignorance, but how are all the simulacra incorporeal?

Arbitrarily long Extended Persistent spells.  Assuming the usual duration isn't well over 24 hours to begin with (which with NI CL, it will be on the second casting, supernatural of course).
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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2010, 05:33:25 PM »
where is said 'dusk giant trick' located please?
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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2010, 05:58:16 PM »
Hey Kell, nice to see RWoT used in one of your builds.

[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2010, 06:31:14 PM »
where is said 'dusk giant trick' located please?
The dusk giant is a creature that can gain permanent hit dice by eating other creatures. If you polymorph into one, you can do the same thing because the ability is labeled as an Extraordinary Attack...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2010, 06:37:40 PM »
where is said 'dusk giant trick' located please?
The dusk giant is a creature that can gain permanent hit dice by eating other creatures. If you polymorph into one, you can do the same thing because the ability is labeled as an Extraordinary Attack...
I want that plus something that grants casting based on HD. Hmm practiced spellcaster runs off of HD and you get a new feat every 3 HD right. Infinite CL and occasional free feats then.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: The Red Wizard From Hell (Official Overkill Version)
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2010, 06:52:56 PM »
Hey Kell, nice to see RWoT used in one of your builds.

It's in quite a few, actually.  Especially my Twice-Betrayer Slayers, though now the TBoS is more or less an insect beneath the feet of the last few archmagi I've posted.
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