Dual Wielding Warhammer Dwarf.

[kurashu]

One of my players has approached me and wants to run a campaign. Assuming this happens, I've dusted off my notebook of character builds and one stuck out to me: a dwarf who dual wields warhammers. I know it isn't the most optimal solution without a good source of damage (sneak attack, et cetera) but I want to be the best damn dwarf who dual wields warhammers ever.

Ideas I have now are:

• Pious Templar: Paladin spells and mettle are excellent; smites, DR and bonus feats are good
• Battlesmith: If I go Pious Templar, I'll have a decent wisdom so a quick dip in here would add Wisdom to my warhammer damage
• Deepwarden: Con to AC instead of Dex
• Hammer of Moradin: Throwing hammer, returning hammers, and powerful grip; DR 2/- is what I'd get from Pious Templar, I could probably ask him to allow it to stack DR 4/- isn't game breaking but it isn't something I'll plan on either

I'd qualify with these two by using Ranger and Fighter. I was planning on using Swordsage until I realized that warhammer isn't a Stone Dragon weapon...for whatever reason. Short of a house rule, I won't get double WIS to Warhammers and WIS to AC. That's a shame but it'd also push back my build a level, too. Oh well 

Feats I have to take are Endurance (bonus from Ranger), True Believer, Iron Will and Weapon Focus (Warhammer).

Right now my build looks like:

Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Pious Templar 4/Hammer of Moradin 3/Deepwarden 2/Battlesmith 1/Pious Templar +5 (9)

Feats:

• 1: True Believer, Track (B)
• 2: Two-Weapon Fighting (B)
• 3: Endurance (B), Power Attack
• 4: Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting
• 5: Weapon Focus (Warhammer)
• 6: Iron Will
• 8: Weapon Specialization (Warhammer) (B)
• 9: Power Attack, Brutal Throw (B)
• 12: Power Throw
• 15: Quick Draw, Craft Magic Arms & Armor (B)
• 18: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (B)
• 19: Quick Draw (B)

Ends me with: 7 attacks (+18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3 if I did it that right); Warhammers get WIS + 1.5 STR to damage in one hand or WIS + 2 STR in two hands; I can throw them and make a full attack with them and modify the ranged attack with STR instead of DEX (they all return as well); I can power attack with my warhammers if I melee or throw with them. I get CON to AC instead of DEX. A couple of smites, mettle, some DR, paladin spells.

I don't know if flaws are in play or not. It's not something I've ever allowed (feats every odd level rather than every 3rd seem to be enough) so I doubt it. I'm considering dragonborn but that probably precludes Hammer of Moradin and Pious Templar of Moradin. :/

I was hoping I could get some advice on improvements. While I'm not completely married to the idea of dual wielding warhammers, it's something I'd really like to do.

[InnaBinder]

Are Bloodstorm Blade, specifically, and Bo9S, in general, available?

[Saeomon]

You have a very specific goal in mind for this character. With the build you've laid out you achieve this goal. Could it be further "optimized?" Sure, I suppose. However I'm a firm believer that optimization is 100% subject to the rule of diminishing returns. While what you get may be statistically superior in some regard, it may leave you feeling like you've cheated yourself out of the fun of a fully-functional build that's somewhat easier to play.

At this point, your highest returns are going to be gained if you can get the DM to agree to allow you access to something otherwise unavailable. None of the following feats are typically usable with warhammers. However, they could easily be houseruled to do so.

Lightning Mace Style (CWar 113) - would give you extra attacks on a critical threat

Three Mountains Style (CWar 114) - would allow you to inflict the Nauseated status effect

Penetrating Shot (PHB2 81) - would let you throw warhammers as a 60' line effect as a standard action

[kurashu]

Are Bloodstorm Blade, specifically, and Bo9S, in general, available?

They are, I've thought about that, too. The build I worked out with that dipped a level in warblade (or two) and then four in Bloodstorm Blade but it sacrificed levels in Pious Templar. :/

I'm not specifically looking for a flawless build (ironically, I have one ). I'm just looking to see if: a) I missed something, as I am want to do when I'm eager about a character build and b) to see if I could improve the playability (maximizing swift actions with battle blessing, for example). I'll likely be front line with a crusader or duskblade (or both) assuming the campaign goes through (two of my players are absolutely in love with these classes).

[McPoyo]

You have a very specific goal in mind for this character. With the build you've laid out you achieve this goal. Could it be further "optimized?" Sure, I suppose. However I'm a firm believer that optimization is 100% subject to the rule of diminishing returns. While what you get may be statistically superior in some regard, it may leave you feeling like you've cheated yourself out of the fun of a fully-functional build that's somewhat easier to play.

At this point, your highest returns are going to be gained if you can get the DM to agree to allow you access to something otherwise unavailable. None of the following feats are typically usable with warhammers. However, they could easily be houseruled to do so.

Lightning Mace Style (CWar 113) - would give you extra attacks on a critical threat

Three Mountains Style (CWar 114) - would allow you to inflict the Nauseated status effect

Penetrating Shot (PHB2 81) - would let you throw warhammers as a 60' line effect as a standard action

Throwing Aptitude on the warhammers would let those qualify regardless of the feat prereqs.

[jameswilliamogle]

Hey, consider switching over to Pelor and using multiple Dawnstars instead.  Brilliant Energy + Power Throw + Throw Anything = win.

I had an idea to do this in a core campaign someday, but it wouldn't compete w/ Bloodstorm Blade shenanigans / awesomeness.
Mine would've gone something like:
Dwarf Fighter 20
Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Spec
<-b/c static damage bonuses really do matter in multiple attacks
TWF, iTWF, gTWF, Rapid Shot, Quickdraw
<-again, to get as many attacks as possible
Power Attack, *Improved Overrun*, Improved Bull Rush, Cleave
<-these latter rarely-mentioned manuvarability feats really are awesome in real campaigns
Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Shot on the Run, Improved Initiative
<-just icing on the cake

So the main schtick was to have multiple Dwarven Throwers and to just Quickdraw and go blender on critters at 8 attacks per round.  Getting a Full Attack off is normally a problem for common warrior-types (excluding  reach-weapon fighters), so instead I focused on using a specific weapon and exploiting its special ability (but being a Dwarf Fighter isn't that bad, honestly).

[kurashu]

Switching over to Pelor precludes Hammer of Moradin and it's tasty Powerful Grip.

I'm thinking of revising this and just wielding a single warhammer -- going sword hammer and board (less attacks, but more likely to hit) -- until I hit Hammer of Moradin 3 and then use a dancing shield. And then rely on throwing my warhammer a secondary offensive. That frees up four feats (some how I wrote quick draw twice). Which lets me take Battle Blessing, and then some combination of the following: Law Devotion, Earth Devotion, Awesome Smite, Extra Smite. I could potentially drop Power Throw as well.

I forgot how overwhelming making a character for a game can be. :/

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Firstly, Battlesmith isn't worth it, because you're not really going to be able to make anything worth shit and to get the Wis to damage you have make the weapon yourself.

If Oriental Adventures is available you can get Wis to hit and damage with 1 level of Shiba Protector.

In MIC there are "Gloves of the Balanced Hand", which gives you TWF. If you have TWF you get ITWF. As you don''t need to meet the requirements for TWF through Ranger 2, you don''t need to waste a good stat for 15 Dex, levae it at 10. GTWF isn't all that important, I'd lose it.

[carnivore]

interesting idea ... will try to get something back to you later

 

[X-Codes]

You know, those dawnstars also trigger Three Mountains....

If you want to do a Hammer of Moradin... didn't Phoenix_Inferno have a really good Hammer of Moradin build?  As in... the DEFINITIVE Hammer of Moradin build?  Is that on BG, or is it still buried in 339?

[McPoyo]

Still buried, I believe.

[Slaughterhouserock]

If you want to do a Hammer of Moradin... didn't Phoenix_Inferno have a really good Hammer of Moradin build?  As in... the DEFINITIVE Hammer of Moradin build?  Is that on BG, or is it still buried in 339?

Here's his handbook.

[kurashu]

If you want to do a Hammer of Moradin... didn't Phoenix_Inferno have a really good Hammer of Moradin build?  As in... the DEFINITIVE Hammer of Moradin build?  Is that on BG, or is it still buried in 339?

Here's his handbook.

Thanks, I'll give that a read when I get the chance.

[Mixster]

Consider doing the TWF style swashbuckler mixed with rogue and daring outlaw, that will give you decent damage at least.

If not your thing, Knowledge Devotion and holy warrior can add a decent amount of damage to your attacks, if you are a cleric that is, which I see no reasons not to be.

[Rebel7284]

Consider Divine Crusader instead of Pios Templar.  With the right domain, you can get a few very powerful spells.

[RobbyPants]

Consider doing the TWF style swashbuckler mixed with rogue and daring outlaw, that will give you decent damage at least.

Swashbuckler gets most of it's benefit from light weapons.  I guess it's a way to keep your BAB up while increasing Sneak Attack, but then you have to jump through a ton of hoops to apply all of the SA damage on a regular basis.

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

What exactly are your priorities for this build? at first you said you wanted to be the "best damn dwarf who dual wields warhammers ever," and then you end with, ""I'm not completely married to the idea of dual wielding warhammers, it's something I'd really like to do."

TWF is a bad idea without extra damage dice (SA, Skirmish, Dragonfire Inspiration.).

Fireblood(or Dragonborn)
[spoiler]
1 - Warblade - Negotiator
2 - Warblade -
3 - Warblade - TWF
4 - Warblade -
5 - Warblade - White Raven Defense
6 - Warblade - Clarion Commander
7 - Stalwart Sorcerer - Weapon Focus (Warhammer), Draconic Heritage (Battle Dragon)
8 - Heartfire Fanner -
9 - Heartfire Fanner - Song of The White Raven
10 - Heartfire Fanner -
11 - Heartfire Fanner -
12 - Heartfire Fanner - Dragonfire Inspiration
13 - Warblade -
14 - Warblade -
15 - Warblade - Improved Initiative, Words of Creation
16 - Warblade -
17 - Warblade -
18 - Warblade - Song of the Heart
19 - Warblade - Bonus Warblade feat
20 - Warblade - [/spoiler]

If you really want to throw the Warhammers drop 4 level of Warblade for Bloodstorm Blade.
If you feel this build is feat starved, Heartfire Fanner gives you (and allies) 3 bonus feats when you use your music.

[X-Codes]

TWF is a bad idea without extra damage dice (SA, Skirmish, Dragonfire Inspiration.).

...or extra sources of damage like Powerful Grip, Thunder Strike, Divine Might, Divine Favor (likely complete with Battle Blessing, no less), and anything the party Wizard or Bard decides to throw on you.  Hitting for 1d8+20 a smack is easily achieved, and that's just as good as hitting for 1d6 with 6d6 added dice.

Hammers of Moradin have enough going for them to make TWF worthwhile.

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

TWF is a bad idea without extra damage dice (SA, Skirmish, Dragonfire Inspiration.).

...or extra sources of damage like Powerful Grip, Thunder Strike, Divine Might, Divine Favor (likely complete with Battle Blessing, no less), and anything the party Wizard or Bard decides to throw on you.  Hitting for 1d8+20 a smack is easily achieved, and that's just as good as hitting for 1d6 with 6d6 added dice.

Hammers of Moradin have enough going for them to make TWF worthwhile.

Sure. But is +20 damage for 1, better than +Xd6 +3 feats for everyone?

[X-Codes]

It is if there's a bard in the group already.