Author Topic: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard  (Read 7323 times)

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MonkeyWrench

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Re: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2010, 02:29:07 AM »
Finding the Wizard is no problem - they're allies and "friends"

What about never giving the victim a chance to rest?

Is there any way to track teleports other than scry?  What sort of Gated creatures can cast MDJ?  The only ones I can think of in MMI are certain Great Wyrm Dragons.  A Great Wyrm Red Dragon could have both MDJ and AMF.  

So Gate in the dragon.  Dragon casts Moment of Prescience and any other buffs (any other init boosters? Foresight?)
Dragon wins init (hopefully) drops quickened (via rod) MDJ, AMF
Wiz's contingency kicks in (g. teleport, can a core PHB contingency have more than one effect?)
Dragon drops AMF, murderers use g. scry (victim is out of any private sanctum, but might still be mindblanked. Dragon uses Discern Location via SLA on an object carried by victim?)
G. Teleport to victim, this time with the Sorcerer and two Wizards
Victim has probably cast Time Stop in the intervening 1-2 rounds - almost fully buffed (no contingencies)
Now it's down to whoever wins initiative.
I imagine this fight will bring in a ton of summoned/gated creatures

Thoughts?

Could the murderers make use of Shapechange to hide their identity?  Would it foil Legend Lores and COPs if someone starts to investigate?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 02:37:08 AM by MonkeyWrench »

Lycanthromancer

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Re: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2010, 08:37:48 AM »
The 'friend' waited until he was out of useful spells and away from his supply of scrolls. Perhaps the wizard in question was not an adventuring wizard, felt safe with his friends and minions around, and let down his guard.

Just because wizards should have sky-high Intelligence doesn't mean they have good Wisdom scores.
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Saxony

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Re: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2010, 09:55:22 AM »
The 'friend' waited until he was out of useful spells and away from his supply of scrolls. Perhaps the wizard in question was not an adventuring wizard, felt safe with his friends and minions around, and let down his guard.

Just because wizards should have sky-high Intelligence doesn't mean they have good Wisdom scores.
Sounds plausible.

For the mysterious public death, mental reprogramming after winning the battle was mentioned before in this thread.
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2010, 10:09:29 AM »
In core, only 1 contingency can happen on both sides.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2010, 12:15:22 AM »
In core, only 1 contingency can happen on both sides.
When talking about the spell, yes. However, contingencies in the classic sense can range into the hundreds, if not thousands.

For instance, a wizard with a raven familiar can wear a shrink item'd hat which, when expanded, is actually a wooden cone large enough for him to fit in. He puts lots of ranks into Spellcraft, and his familiar readies the command word to expand it any time someone (or -thing) does something aggressive toward him (spell, spell-like, psi, psi-like, supernatural, extraordinary, natural, or other), which blocks 99% of everything out there. The last 1% is basically Chained disintegrates, Burrowing Powers and Spells, and dominated commoner/love's pain combos.

And even if those work, he's got a contingent teleport, astral projection (which he got for free by binding a nightmare) and a few dozen spare clones. The best part is, that's if you can actually find him. He could very well be a simulacrum that is telepathically linked to the actual him, which controls it in a puppet-like manner.

Among other things.

Hell, I came up with a way that a first-level wizard could get armies of solars riding around on tarrasques, each equipped with armies of efreet casting wishes out of ring gates an infinite number of times per round, and all without leaving home (or Core) for that matter.

Wizards are stupid-powerful. Why did WotC consider them worse than 3.5 psionics, again?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 12:23:34 AM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

fuinjutsu

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Re: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2010, 01:24:30 AM »
Wizards are stupid-powerful. Why did WotC consider them worse than 3.5 psionics, again?

Wait they actually said that?  Link pls?

And the answer is because official D&D play-testers play as though they were still playing 2e, and not very well at 2e for that matter, completely ignoring the fact that different mechanics should mean different tactics.  They apparently also never play-tested past CR 10.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

X-Codes

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Re: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2010, 02:32:53 AM »
Ok, nevermind.  I thought Contingency could be cast multiple times, but I guess it's the Craft Contingent Spell feat that really puts the brakes on the game.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2010, 03:02:43 AM »
Ok, nevermind.  I thought Contingency could be cast multiple times, but I guess it's the Craft Contingent Spell feat that really puts the brakes on the game.
That's right. Although I think technically the wizard could also put a Contingency on his familiar using the spell, since he can cast personal spells on it.
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2010, 09:04:23 AM »
Wizards are stupid-powerful. Why did WotC consider them worse than 3.5 psionics, again?

Wait they actually said that?  Link pls?

And the answer is because official D&D play-testers play as though they were still playing 2e, and not very well at 2e for that matter, completely ignoring the fact that different mechanics should mean different tactics.  They apparently also never play-tested past CR 10 3.
Fixed that.

And Complete Psionic is really all you need. Look at all the nerfs therein: Can't "summon" more than one creature at a time. Can't overcome DR with psionics. Feats that actively make you worse for having taken them. And none of the restrictions are forced on spellcasters.

It's self-evident, really.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Re: 3.5 Core Only - Wizard versus Wizard
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2010, 09:40:27 PM »
I wonder if Wiz v. Wiz would be more interesting if :

Wizard A is offensive minded, with less than 10% of spell picks defensive.
Wizard B is defensive minded, with less than 10% of spell picks offensive.